but what does that have anything to do with the subject of the thread, which was about warrantee coverage issues, not another pissing contest between two cliques of Mini owners. And what I wrote IS on point if one is considering the MM act that governs the responsibilites of the various parties in figuring out who pays for what.

Going "nya nya nya, if you had a Works car this wouldn't have happend" is both obvious and pretty much content free. Maybe some people WANT more than dealer claimed 210 HP. Maybe some people ACKNOWLEDGE that changing their cars will move some responsibilities from the dealer to the owner. Maybe some people actually find changing and modifying a piece of THEIR OWN PROPERTY both, fun, relaxing and satisfying. Even with all that, there have been multiple posts from other Mini owners about questionable claims on warrantee coverage, NOT ALL FOR POWER ADDERS. So, if I choose to change my car, should I really abdicate ALL RIGHTS or ability to discuss issues related to federal law? I don't think so, and you shouldn't either. Think, no one but Mini parts for ever. No OEM equivalent parts AT ALL. No PPG windshields. And double your parts cost everywhere, because you'll only be able to buy them one place.

JCW VS MODs isn't the point, it's about protecting our rights in the marketplace, and preventing monopolistic pricing for commodity components.

Matt

 

Am I incorrect, or are you required to have the JCW kit installed at an autorized MINI dealership in order to preserve the factory warranty? In other words, if YOU install even the factory parts, you voided your warranty because the work must be carried out by MINI. That means, the argument that an aftermarket pulley that's 'about the same as' the JCW pulley won't hold up...

 

While I think the JCW has value I don't think it's strength is it's resale value. I think an unmoddified MCS will bring the most value.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=jcw+mcs+sale

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...4&page=1&pp=25

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=31861

Even less was offered the second time around.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4545824869

 

Have you considered driving down to Hank Aaron and seeing what their service people say?

 

I have fought a BMW dealer who refused warranty service on a car with mods (that was eventually lemoned) and I have fought an Acura dealer who attempted to try the same BS on my wife.

Honestly, neither was much of a fight.

If you have the sack to hold your ground and tell them to prove (as they are required to) that the aftermarket part in question caused or facilitated the failure you'll find that they're paper tigers.

They are not going to pay their lawyers to fight a case they can't win.

I will never make the "JCW pulley reduction is similar to my Alta" argument because I don't have to. I will tell them I want proof that my 15% reduction pulley caused Part X to fail and unless they provide that proof, they better damn well fix my car.

My parting words to the Acura Dealer Service Manager were, "You got three things to look forward to over the next week or so - a letter from my lawyer schooling you on the Magnussen-Moss act, a bill from me for that bleeping letter and a pink slip from your boss when he sees both."

We didn't even make it to our car before Mr Shiny Pants waddled over and went weak sister.

A friend's husband is the service manager at the local Ford Dealer and he has flat out told me that they will attempt to deny warranty service when they spot a mod. He has also said that when a service rep tells him that a customer is quoting the M-M act and putting up a fight, they back down right quick.

The Dealers are counting on you to make a little bit of noise and then slink away mumbling and grumbling. Print out a copy of the M-M Act, take a deep breath, make a lot of noise and stand your ground and they'll come around.

 

It has everything to do with the subject of this thread. The originator of this post SpiderX wrote in his last sentance "JCW HMMMMMMMM"

 

Knowledge is indeed power, and M-M is squarely on the customer's side in that the burden of proof is on the dealership or MINI.

For you football guys, you know that when a play is under review, the orignial call made on the field is often times paramount. The final outcome will be the same unless there is conclusive evidence to over-turn it. There might be no solid proof either way, but the intitial call stands regardless. With M-M, the consumer has the initial call going his way, every time. The onus of proof, and the time and expense needed to do so, is on them...

Skiploder - very eloquent, with much passion and even some aggression. I love it!

 

 

Matt,

I think it is just a few JCW owners getting a chance to laugh. While it seems troubling that people will laugh, I don't ever remember a JCW thread on this board in which at least a few people didn't come on and say why waste your money on the JCW, when you can get more power for less money. Time after time after time it comes up. The standard response is warranty and prestige. Now that someone has warranty problems with all their mods and they are complaining, you can't blame a few JCW owners taking one or two jabs, after they have taken countless, upon countless jabs for purchasing a Works.

 

I would be curious to hear from those who quoted M-M Act, only to be provided with said proof by the dealership. Has this ever happened? Have the dealerships amassed what is considered acceptable "proof" in the form of documents that could hold up, thus supporting their denial?

 

I will pick up the car today and I am planning on going to the General Mgr office and tell him that I will call my lawyer next. The problem is that even though the lawyer is a friend he has to make money for his time. The $350 to pay the bill for the repair does not get much in a lawyers office these days. However I will go tot the office and start the proceeding.


My comment on JCW is legit. There is really only one issue that I wanted to stir up. The dealer and warranty issue. I should have never brought up JCW.

I stand by my original postings over the months that picking and choosing the parts and seeing the results and tweeking and getting frustated and getting elated is all in the fun I have had with my MINI. Buying a JCW is a wonderful option and I am grateful that it is available but for me the "hobby" of owning the Mini has been "building it myself." That being said if this were my only car and I needed it for reliable transportation I would probably have not gone this far with my mods.

 

The following is taken from "Motoringfile", The MINI Cooper S Powertrain in Detail. I quote form 4.2.1. Supercharger and Drive...

"The basic engine for the Mini One and Mini Cooper is fitted with a conventional torsional vibration damper at the front end of the crankshaft. Calculations and measurements show that the addition of the supercharger with its relatively high moment of inertia was resulting in excessive torsional vibration at about 1,600 rpm. This solution was unacceptable both acoustically and in terms of component strength.

The torsional vibration damper used on the Mini cooper S engine therefore has the belt pulley additionally isolated elastically from the secondary mass, with the belt drive vibration damper. Vibration amplitudes are significantly reduced by the isolated belt pulley."

This report goes back to 2002, but is an interesting read on the new MINI.

 

Really, the only way to have the proof of a mod causing a fault is either

1) Third party evaluations to examine the root cause of a failure (expensive, and the responsability of the Dealer) or

2) Statistical evidence that failures of certain assemblies are higher on cars with certain mods (like a crank position sensor failing on motors with light crank pullies).

I doubt Mini can provide either form of proof, or that they'd want to carry the burdon and cost of doing so.

For the JCW guys, I've never said you did the wrong thing, and if other act like jerks by saying you wasted you money, don't get your revenge on me! Sure, a litte back at ya is fine, make sure you aim at the right target! I'll still be a pain in the butt when I think I should! Works cars are great, but they can't be hacked like a modded car. Different strokes for differnt folks. Life is good that way.....

Matt

 

Really? Why not? Seems I read of quite a few people tweaking their Works engines. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your use of the word "hacked."

 

Ok, this is getting wierd.

I got a PM that it is probably the UNichip. In my ignorance I thought that was unlikely and I had already authorized the work and they were already doing it. I picked up the car and pleaded my case to the service manager and he said he pleaded the case to BMW and because the car has a "piggy back" device that could have caused the failure BMW will not warrant it. I though what a bunch of crap and made noises about calling my lawyer etc. quietly but with determination.

I got home and re read the PM re the Unichip and called Unichip (Jack and Josh) and they confirmed that there is a very good chance that the 1% failure rate can in fact cause the crank angle sensor circuit in the Unichip to go open and confuse and shut down the engine. They also said that there was probably nothing wrong with my sensor that the Unichip is probably the culprit......you can imagine what I'm thinking now.....my car has been in the shop for a week and I just paid $381 to fix a non problem. So the car is running very weak and I don't know if it is because the ECU needs to re-learn that it is a sports car and not a grocery getter or the Unichip is screwed.. At any rate I am signed up for autoX school tomorrow and an auto X on sunday and I asked if I could hurt anything and was told no. If the car runs bad or turns off etc just disconect the Unichip and drive home.

regardless I am sending the Unichip to them on Monday for an evaluation and possible a new unit replacement.

HMMMMMMMMM

have a nice weekend everyone

 

didn't you go through something like this once before?

 

I did have to send the Unichip back once but on a completely different issue. I'm going to try and dig it out from my archives. Gone-no record but it was not a crank angle sensor....I know that for sure.

 

Yeah!!! Man Spider you keep having all the bad luck.

 

NAH....it just seems that way.

I have been out tonight teaching my car that it is a sports car again......it's learning.

I have had more than my share but I also have a lot of mods.......someday I hope it all settles down.

Thanks ,

Bob aka SpiderX

 

I should have said that the works cars can't be modded without the same warrantee concerns. But you start bolting a bunch of stuff on, and it's more like a mod car than a works car.

Good catch, I'll be better next time....


Matt

 

I wish I was out riding mine. It is in the shop getting some dings and a nice "key" job on the driver's side door fixed. Your mods are growing. I know you sent me your number one time. We need to catch up some time in Atlanta here, I would love to check out your car.

 

His reserve was $27.5 and $27K. He never sold the car on Ebay (just check his sales) so I'm not sure what this means ... does anyone?

How many people (just average Joe off the street) are going to buy a used car, sight unseen, from an Ebay auction? Does anyone know?

Would anyone here who is not a dealer? I wouldnt

So I'm not sure what you can conclude from the lack of Ebay sales.

 

I bought my Mini on Ebay from the Maserati/Ferrrari dealer in Ft Lauderdale FL. I also bought a Lexus IS 300 Sportcross from a dealer in Minneapolis. I was very happy with my Mini purchase the car was pristine.

 

Well, he's a local guy and I've seen his car when it was brand new at a local autox. He's a real nice guy.

He tried to sell it via NAM(thread removed because of some zingers, etc. tossed around) autotrader, cars.com. He used the freebie site, craigslist, and was asking 26k for it and was negotiable. He had it on craigslist for two weeks and the last I heard he had someone who was seriously interested in it. If he did sell it, it took over two months for him to do it and not at his asking price.

So what can you conclude from the other two JCW equipped cars listed?

One to watch..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

 

If he's local to you all, then you can see the car. I got to hand it to Spider if he can buy a car site, unseen ... I think that takes some ... courage

I still think I can't conclude much from Ebay because I stand by my initial statement. Take a look at Ebay sales figures. I first pulled up last 100 auctions for MINI. Except for the dealer car with $31K of mods (stereo and whatever), the few cars sold were cabrio or auto. Still 90% of them or so went unsold at any price.

Then pull ALL cars, any model, sorted by price. Except for like 1 or 2 ferraris, the cars just dont sell. Forget the high end cars, scroll down to cars starting around $41K down in to high $30s. Again, its a sea of red. Except on rare occasions, the bidders who do bid are "private" which tells me nothing or have a rating of 0 - 5. And what are the odds of that transaction happening?

As for your car to watch. Why would someone buy a four year old car (being July and new cars usually come out in late Aug - Early Sep, its four years old) w/14K miles on it when for maybe a couple of thousand more, I can buy a new one built "my way" ... minus the JCW? What if I hate blue and want yellow? Isn't a major selling point of MINI to "youify" it? I might add that I understand in CA dealers might be charging over MSRP but here on the Atlantic side, I see at least 30 new MINIs just sitting in the dealer lot, gathering dust which means for every day they sit, that dealer is losing money.

I think also, the average buyer could care less about what "mods"
are done. they might just want reliability. What percentage of all MINI owners actually change the engine parts? 5 - 10%? I dunno. I just dont think the average American buyer cares about HP on this car. IMHO I may be wrong since clearly there are many zeolots, myself among them, that do care. But does the average American?

I just don't see ebay as the place to sell ... just my opinion. Your mileage may vary