I'm interested to get some feedback from the "field" as to whether a larger air-to-air top mount intercooler such as the Alta is worth the $$. I've found that many vendors will tell you what you want to hear as opposed to what you want to know. So...here's what I want to know. I have an '05 MCS with pulley, intake, exhaust and ecu mods. Does the bigger intercooler make a significant power increase for street use considering my setup? If so, where in the power band? It seems like the intercooler is the next step up the ladder but I want to hear from some of you who have been there before I plunk down the bucks.

Thanks for your input.

ripley

 

I saw the big A2A unit that Webb sells on a car the other day. It definitely looks cool.

 

I've found that the stock IC works pretty darn well:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=23248&page=2

 

i run a GRS tmic and so far i can say i can feel a minor difference.. the car remains 'on edge' longer... so the cool feeling of the car stays a bit longer... i think alot of people will agree that a 19% will benefit more with a ic than a 15%

the oem ic is not a bad piece.. its location problems that inhibits it a bit...

 

If you want to be efficient at lower speeds such as on the street then it makes more sense to consider a water cooled IC such as what Webbmotorsports.com sells but it is more complicated to install, has more maintenance for the cooling system on a regular basis.

I'm interested in a better intercooler but I have not found any so far that will add enough power for a cost that I can live with. As soon as I find one I like I'll let you know but for now I'm happily living with my stock IC.

 

I have the GRS Motorsport air-to-air intercooler, and that piece is a work of art. I'm not sure if I'm getting really cooler IAT's during normal street driving when compared to the stock intercooler. My IAT gauge suggests a very modest improvement, but I need to do some data logging, especially at ambient temperatures similar to those when I logged the stock intercooler. IMO, the big value of the larger air-to-air IC, such as the GRS and Alta, will be seen at sustained high rpm's as seen on the track or with very aggressive highway driving. BTW, I have a 19% pulley with many other mods, and as mentioned by others, I'm not sure a 15% pulley warrants a larger air-to-air IC, especially for street driving.

Good luck...

 

I guess like many, I've contemplated this purchase for quite a while...

For nearly a 1,000 bucks, and marginal improvements over stock (objective & subjective accounts), it has not been exactly compelling for me. With the stock set-up, it seems that the limitations are not so much the IC itself, but the air that it can can be exposed to, and passed through...

NAM member Petrich shared this a few weeks back, and I'm thinking that this would be a cool way to go (yes, pun intended ):

http://www.coolingmist.com/

As of this moment, I plan to keep my stock IC. I will pursue a port/polish job, an aftermkt diverter, and something like the above link... I believe Randy Webb will have something soon; controlled via the UNIChip, triggered by IAT's, among other user-selectable factors...

I like to pull my plugs for inspection & cleaning about once a every 4-6 weeks (when I also rotate tires). To be honest, I'd like to not have to dork-around with IC removal. The larger Alta or GRS would require such...

 

as I have a 15% pulley, this thread is making me lean towards keeping the $$ in my pocket. Or maybe investing them elswhere. If others care to chime in, please do so.

ripley.

 

TonyB, just what I have done, upgraded head, IT manifold, runners, camshaft, blower. I have the alta diverter and by spraying during thy dyno run I gained 7hp.

The weblink you posted looks promising as I agree that dropping several grand is an eye popper. However, when my mechanic saw the insant gains, he suggested that he wire the diverter spray up to shoot when I go over a set rpm and add a tank... plus change my sprayer from windshield solutio to a booster mix

 

I have been looking at the Mini-Madness unit

 

I talked with George at great length last week on the AW unit. There is a car in Dallas that had the first one put on last year and his dyno results were an instant 20whp. not bad for the Texas summer on a dyno. Other than him, don't know anyone with this unit or Webb's $$ AA $$ unit.

 

[QUOTE=andy@ross-tech.com]I've found that the stock IC works pretty darn well:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23248&page=2[/QUOTE]

It is interesting seeing Andy's results. Unfortunately besides Andy's testing and GSR's testing, this is the only test results that anyone or manufacturer has shown for these Intercoolers. People are great at complaining about the stock IC because of placement, size.... But looking at Andy's results, the concerns are unfounded. The stock is pretty efficient. For the $1000 you would be much better off spending the money on something else.

 

agreed. the only way any intercooler can work is (obviously) if it can lower the intake temp, but that is subject to driving conditions. So far, every intercooler out there relies on vehicle motion to provide cooling. front, mount, top mount, water, the only difference being how well they grab the cooling air.
the only advantage I can see for water is that you can remote mount the cooling unit to a more optimum location and for the drags, use an ice bath as well.
for track situations where there is adequate airflow for the A/A top mount, it is just a question of whether you can keep the charge cool enough...so maybe a larger unit would be a benefit.
for the street, it is unlikely there will be enough consistent airflow to make much difference anyway.

 

Thanks guys for the advice. I have read that thread but guess I was in denial. I want lighter wheels and new tires more than I need or want an IC.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that his whp went from , for example 165 to 185?

 

Yes, that is what I am saying. He added the AW and header from madness, threw it on the dyno and boom, extra 20whp.

edited, 16Mar05 because I left out that the dyno had a header on , not just the AW to get the 20whp.

 

HS! I have one that I reserved about two weeks ago. I will take delivery in about a month. My choice not his

 

Any way to get hold of the dyno sheet?

 

no dyno sheet. I re-read his email to me and I mis stated all the mods. The 20whp also includes the madness header. edited above to reflect where the gain came from.

 

Header and larger intercooler = 20 hp ? That is a REALLY good bump , almost unbeleivable Would like to see the documentation on that as well.

 

What mini madness claimed is that you don't gain hp you save it. hp that would be lost due to heat build up, which in Georgia is an issue

 

you're not going to save anything unless you can get rid of the heat. the dyno is a poor representation of real world situations and tends to favor what might look good in a short term transient, but wouldn't apply to actual driving conditions.


for example, you do a 10 second blast on the dyno:
with the air/air and the punky fan, your IAT goes up to 120 and you get 168hp;
now you add the water/air, in that 10 second run, the IAT only goes up to 100 and you see 178hp; but you have residual heat left in the water, which would eventually get reduced as air flows over the radiator.

If you were driving on the road, the vehicle speed airflow would cool down both intercoolers so the differential would go away.

 

I agree with jlm. A water cooled setup has less dependence on vehicle speed, especially over short periods of time where the mass of the system doesnt reach equilibrium.

--
Cheese

 

jlm is right on the money. no free lunches....or wait, maybe no free btus.