Okay smart guy. I forgot, this is a rough crowd 250 bench horse power, not wheel horse power. Still, 250 bhp is better than 207bhp at the same cost - strictly from a hp perspective.

 

thanks
seriously , races are won at the wheels not at the crank
what we need is vendors to show a standard way of rating HP kits
it's like comparing apples and oranges around these boards
Only 1 of them has shown to be accurate as advertised

 

Are you sure about the loss of EPA cert? I didn't think you could legally drive without that on th roads.
But what cop could catch you?


Paul

 

I agree! We ought to have an average Stock MSC whp baseline that we can all refer to. Then, all other bragging rights should be in whp units tethered to that number.

 

I'm going for it...

 

I need to be careful here, as I am making a comment without knowledge. Many aftermarket companies cannot incur the expense of certifting their products. Some products would not be able pass EPA standards while maintaining a performance advantage. I've certainly purchased many components thru out my life that came with "off-road" limitations.

I doubt very much that a cop of any caliber could tell the difference between a stock and highly modified head.

In no way was my comment meant to alarm anyone or steer them away from some of our great vendors.

 

Can I get an AMEN, Brother?

 

Hence the disclaimers.... sold for off-road use

 

All together now...yae God!

 

Wanna take a trip around the track, your car against mine?

 

So I take it you are not going to show the dyno sheet SAE?

 

Randy's not only has a highly modded Mini...he is also a highly modded driver That... you can't make up with horse power

 

exactly...... so I am curious to his dodging the point about standardizing HP numbers... Is that too much to ask ?

Now if he wants to go to the 1/4mi.... bring it

 

Did I begin yet another mud sling-thing? Not my intention.

 

Ok
IMHO, I think if you put Randy's car vs El Diablito's on a tight track, it would be no contest...Randy will win, driver ability aside. I used to own a custom turbocharged 1996 VW VR6 GTi, and its no fun trying to get good laptimes on a short track in a 300+whp front driver! Its almost imposible to drive smoothly on a tight track without overpowering the front tires in the first 4 gears. On a longer track, then it would come down to the driver, the chassis setup/suspension, so if both cars had the same suspension setup, and two drivers of equal skill were in both cars, I would say that El diablito's machine would win, because of the hp advantage on the long straights. the MINI is a momentum car, the throttle must be respected on the roadcourse, if your constantly on the throttle in a tight corner, your running a slower laptime. On the 1/4 mile, of course El diablito would kick *** because his car makes enough power to run probably low 12's if not high 11's with some sticky tires.

 

A cop might not but the facists at the emissions stations might. I have looked at off road use only and don't use them because you are out on your own when you do. Get into an accident and all of a sudden its hell to pay etc.

So do the mods that aren't epa approved pass emission or is it a take them off, get inspected put them on thing?


Paul

 

What are sticky tires??

 

Tires that grip the road better than the run-flats that come with the car.

 

Softer compound, more grip less durability.

Paul

 

I'm not dodging anything about numbers - if you look at my site, it is one of the few with realistic numbers. Take a look at my performance packages as well - again, realistic numbers. When I go out to Vegas, I will be doing the party at DynoJet if everything works out. I will be sure to get the numbers in every format possible and show them to you. I don't claim to make anywhere near the horsepower your car is making - and that was my point.

My philosophy isn't to make as much power as possible on a dyno. The dyno is a tool I use to make sure I'm going in the right direction. If you make a car with 400hp, it may not be near as fun to drive as one with less that is built as a balanced whole. My goal is to build a car based on what the customer is using the car for - addressing suspension, braking, drivability, and reliability. The MINI is a blast to drive around a road course with 250 BHP; I don't know how much of that would be lost in the translation with 100 more than that.

Don't take this the wrong way at all - I respect what you have done with your car, and it is one of the fun things about the community - there are many goals. Most of my customers want a car that is fun for what it was built for, not a straight line. Your car would blow the doors off of most MINIs I know of at the drag strip. I have never even run a quarter mile with mine.

I have my own approach, and the dyno for me isn't the end all of tuning - in fact it is only a small part. I like to track the car, take readings in real world conditions and time, look at efficiency charts and related research, and use the dyno. To me it doesn't matter what correction method I am using, since I don't try to sell based on huge horsepower numbers. I just need to make sure it is as close to the same every time to know which way we are going with the mod.

Again, I think your car is really a trick little machine - no disrespect at all to what you have done - I just like my car for what I built it for, and it is the best at what it does.

Have fun!

Randy

 

if we combined randy's catalog mule and el's red glowing lava mini from hell, what would we get?

probably something that costs over a $100k

you crazy bastids.

:smile:

 

With the HAI and MTH, boy does the exhaust spit and rasp! When I added the pully, it definitly added to the exhaust burbles and pops.

For $90, I'm real, real happy......

Matt

 

Since they are “realistic” where do these numbers come from? Where are the dyno results to prove them?


Your site says you are working on a kit that makes 275+HP, isn’t that close enough to El’s 281hp? Again where do these numbers come from? How could you possible know what HP it makes if you haven’t even built it yet?


What you don’t realize is that El’s car has Leda shocks, custom front control arms, camber plates, sway bars and rear adjustable control arms. That is NOT made for going in a straight line. I have chased this car before and it handles very well. But this isn’t about racing, it is about the cars. Even in a less modified car your driving skills would more then likely prevail and I respect that.

Yet on your site you claim HP numbers larger than a stock TWINCHARGE. If you are not selling HP what are you selling?

I have been driving track prepared high HP cars as a hobby for many years now and I have found that high HP leads to high torque and torque is a GOOD thing. Now maybe I just don’t understand but I thought that they made that peddle under your right foot to control how much you use. So having a well to draw from is good, you just don’t need to drink it all at once.

Form your site “Mind blowing prices, but you get what you pay for!”
At $11,000.00 for that 275HP kit I would hope to get more than just my mind blown!

This is just my opinion I am not a professional race car driver.


Dave

 

Leda dampers and camber plates don't make a car handle well. It's the package, and unless the package is set-up correctly it doesn't matter what's under it, or in it. Why is it folks fall prey to these types of claims?

If you check closely, Randy is, I beleive, talking about bhp and El is talking about whp.

Too much power will corrupt anything absolutely, even a car. Balance, balance, balance.

Why do you believe that high hp leads to high torque? Yes, the two are related, but increasing hp doesn't always guarantee an increase in torque. I Would call one of my past rides, a 1997 Acura Type-R a high hp car. However, 130lbft torque is really not that much.

Instead of challanging Randy with speculative wisdom, why not politely ask him for the results.

 

I have posted the numbers several times. I have dyno'ed several dozens of cars, so there are plenty of folks who know the numbers, because they've seen their cars dyno'ed. To date, I haven't had someone who hasn't been happy with the results of the mods - and the numbers are pretty much dead on. If they aren't I fix it for the customer.


Because the unit has been built, and they are BHP numbers, as measured on a bench dyno.

The parts don't make the car - it has taken hundreds of track hours to fine tune my set ups. Again, I don't doubt or take anything away from El's car.


I'm not sure what the stock twincharge car makes, but if that's true, great. I sell what the customer needs/wants. So far, I haven't had a customer that uses his car for the drag strip and just wants a ton of power. I build balanced packages from my experience on the track with these cars, as well as time spent on the street using the "wife" test. I also check parts and develop ECU maps on the dyno - a toool that is only part of the package.



True, but there are limits to other items - gearbox, pistons, front wheel drive, etc.

I ain't gonna help you there .

I totally respect your opinion, and I hope my poitn was well taken also.

Again, just have fun with what you want the car for

Randy