The dyno is a DYNAPACK.

HP = 178.0 at the wheels

Torque = 155.2 @4387 rpm

In speaking with Randy he estimates this to be somewhere between 205 and 210

 

Would that translate to around 18% driveline loss?

 

Sounds fairly healthy. Any baseline?

 

DLL= 100*(1-WPH/CHP)

DLL = drive line loss.
WHP = Wheel HP
CHP = Crank HP

Remeber to do this relative to the crank horse power, or your numbers will be high.

DLL (205 CHP) = 13.27%
DLL (210 CHP) = 15.24%

Reading around, I'm seeing 10-12% DLL. This would make CHP of 197.7 to 202.3

Anyway, it sounds like a lot of fun! I don't even have a pully yet, and I'm impressed with my power gains. I can't wait for more!

 

No, I wish I had dyno'ed before I started modding but I didn't. From what I read most MCS make about 130hp at the wheels.

I spoke with Randy and that was his estimation. Doing some math that is about 13% DLL. I don't know but it feels pretty strong. Now if I could just get rid of the stumble.

 

I'm curious to see the difference between runs with the Unichip installed and with it removed. The only such test I saw was from paulmon, and the results were less than spectacular:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=26838

 

Thats odd I have read that the MCS's are very efficient. I heard the pre 05's make around 155hp which is around a 6 to 7% loss Correct me if I am wrong. I have read this in European Car and the latest issue of Roundel.

 

One of the threads had some results from a recent run of several cars and that was stated. I wasn't there, don't know, can't say...... but it is consistent with other reports.

 

From what I have seen on other posts DLL is usually about 11%. I mentioned this to Randy at the recent Richmond PP and he agreed 11% is typical.

 

What 130hp!! that's so fault advertising! I want my money back!

 

That's odd. Don't most of us (including Randy) use an 11% driveline loss? That's about a 16% loss. With an 11% DLL, it puts you at 200hp even. Congrats.

 

Don't know where you read that. The number I usually see for a stock MCS is around 144.

 

greatgro has it right! Stock MCS's typically average from 141 to 148 wheel HP peak. I generally use a 12% drivetrain loss factor when comparing to OEM's "advertised HP"

--->SpiderX - in general your dyno pull is about on target. A bit thin in torque based strictly on the engine specs, but then again we don't know what your baseline is either.

 

this infomation just make me want 19% over 15% real bad!

 

Dynapacks usually use a 13-15% loss on the MINI. Don't get too hung up on the numbers - they are only an indicator. Dyno numbers are all over the map depending on the baseline, the syno, the conditions, the operator, etc.

We don't really know the driveline loss for each dyno, and we would have to take an engine on a stand dyno, then put it in the car, and run that same car on all of the different dynos to figure it out.

Since what we use the dyno for is to know if we are going in the right direction, and how well that direction works, nobody has bothered to figure out what the true driveline loss is for each dyno manufacturer.

I do need to figure out something with his plot though - it ends at 6650 or so rather than going to 6950 RPM. That would certainly give him a bit more power. It could just be the way the software on the dyno was set up though.

Again, with dyno's the control of the scientific method is absolutely critical, and then we are looking for deltas from baselines.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Randy,
If you look at my Dyno from Yarrow Sport, you will see that this was about the exact same problem that I had. Does he run the same dyno?
Greg V

 

Randy:

You are confusing parasitic loss and drivetrain loss. If the dyno operator calibrates the dyno correctly, you will not see parasitic loss on the dyno graph. We calculate 12% drivetrain loss, based upon our results of over 600 dyno runs, compared to the factory hp figure.

Dyno numbers can be very close and consistent from dyno to dyno, if the operator knows how to dyno these cars, and they indeed use the correct methodology. This is VERY RARE, especially amongst tuners: how many times do we see claims of 7+ horsepower for an intake, or 9+ for an exhuast.

Also, these cars tyically don't make more power at 6950 than they do at 6650, so running the car out isn't going to increase the peak numbers. Area under the torque curve is a much better indicator of how a street car will perform.

Hope that helps

 

Hey guys, not to totally change the subject, but something I've been wondering about dyno runs in general, particularly all of the discussions on CAI performance results.


Do you all run the dynos with the bonnets/hoods closed or open? I've seen dynos run with the hoods open, large fans blowing, and was just wondering your alls method. "If" hoods are open, it wouldn't give accurate figures if your testing CAI results, etc. I guess it wouldn't give actual data for driving conditions either. Just wondering.

 

Nope - I just mentioned loss on that dyno (and included parasitic in with driveline). Most the guys don't spend the time to calibrate the dyno, so there are some typical losses seen from dyno to dyno that are a wee bit different (an advantage I've had of being in several shops around the country and using different dyno manufacturers).

I agree that the correct methodology is rare - not too many folks are looking at the dyno software to make sure it's right, calibrating the rollers regularly, hooking up a wide band O2, or even monitoring the inlet temp, coolant temp, fuel trim, etc. They don't worry about warm up, or inlet air temp protection fueling either.

It's tough to try to explain that to a customer when folks want to compare dyno runs from one dyno at one shop to another across the country. Thanks for explaining it - you do so eloquently, you Rock Star :smile: .

I'd say 12% is a fair number. I've seen some tuners, and I won't mention any names - suffice it to say it isn't you or me, that use driveline losses as high as 18%!! That's just wrong.

Thanks for the input - appreciate it!

ElonCooper,

I've done it both ways, and on a standing dyno, it doesn't make too much of a difference, unless you are using the fan directed right at the intake. You have to use the dyno as a tool, and combine it with acceleration tests (and I mean same gear timed tests from RPM points), track tests, and pressure tests.

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

ElonCooper:

The trick is to replicate road conditions on the dyno. Car manufaturers have $100,000 fans which can create the wind velocity needed. Obviously, we can't do that, so, without going into too much detail, we replicate road conditions with the hood open.

The CAIs that are on the market now are in no way ram air systems. If they were, they would impact the dyno numbers as you suggest. As it stands now, we have methodology which best replicates what is happening to the engine on the street. This can be confirmed with careful datalogging, and at the drag strip--specifically in observing the MPH figures.

There has been a lot of excitement about the cowl vents as the best source of cold air (which is probably true), and how they create a "ram air" at speed (which is not true). There is good evidence that at highway speeds, those vents actually suck a vacuum, due to the aerodynamics of the car.
We have some special fans which come close to replicating the kind of velocity you need for ram-air system testing on the dyno. It's not perfect, however, so results (especially without these fans) should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Thanks guys for the info/follow up.

 

here is a grain or two of salt: a pic of the Endyn engine dyno room

 

I heard that the Pilo Racing worldwide development headquarters puts that Endyno place to shame.

 

Have just come off a Mustang Dynometer and only got 123.5HP and 125.1 torque. Either there is something wrong with the dyno or something terribly wrong the car any ideas
Cooper S with Madness air
15% pulley
Denso plugs
Oneball exhaust

 

Or something very, very wrong with the dyno tech (that's my guess)!