Recently I've been looking at buying and modifying an R56 and I was wondering what a realistic amount of horsepower I should expect to be able to safely get out of it is. I'd like it to be a daily car at the end of the day so I was wondering if 250-300hp is even realistic as I know very little about the technical stuff.

Thanks guys

 

 

Mario, what are the torque numbers for that whp? So many people are into HP while the torque is what gives you that kick in the butt feel.

And, 225 whp at a 12% drivetrain loss equates to around 252 bhp that is a very nice number for a small car.

 

 

Nice numbers. For those of us with Gen1s Santa Claus has still not figured out how to get us those numbers for Christmas.

 

yep, getting super large HP gains in a MINI is not always easy or by any means cheap.

 

How much of an impact does it have on reliability?

 

Not so much a reliability thing as most of the time you are improving over the stock components which helps with longevity unless your aim is to beat the living daylights out of it

 

This car would be insane with 250 - 300 hp. I am not sure I could control myself

 

or the car.. torque steer on an uneven road is real tough, especially with all the traction nannies off.

 

I can't imagine. I had an 02 Altima SE with the 3.5 L VQ with 240 hp. torque steer on that car was ridiculous, and it was 3100 lbs. The mini would be crazy

 

Even on a straight and level road, torque steer can be scary as hell! I've had occasion to change lanes because of it --- fortunately traffic was minimal, and I was out in front anyhow. An LSD helps but not that much. I've learned to stay in the RH lane as much as possible --- easier to obey traffic laws and keeps torque steer from putting me into oncoming traffic, when I ignore / forget torque steer. Fortunately, traffic is minimal in my area.

As for power, 250 - 300 WHP for a DD is easily done, without rebuilding the bottom end. Reliability is proportional to maintenance, workmanship and mod parts quality. Also, torque steering is directly proportional to torque --- torque goes up - torque steering gets more noticeable. Mine was last measured at 353 Ft-Lbs.

 

This maybe as stupid of a question as it can get, last night coming home got involved with a dodge 392 srt8 on the clear HWY, kept up with it to about 136 but my RPM was very close to 6000, I felt like I could use the 7th gear, are there any 7speed gearbox that can be mated in our gen2's? And ofcoure it kicked my rear end after that..lol
Ben

 

 

Your so right. It was just a wishful thinking.

 

While I'm not up in my second gen cars like I should be, the above Mods and a W/M kit should get you near the middle of what you're asking for and keep it reliable.

Anything more than that and you're either looking at a considerable amount of money over your purchase price, or a bottle.

But.... A true 240-250 WHP, makes for an exceptional Mini.
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250 to 300 is definitely achievable on a DD. Plan on a larger intercooler, quality OCC, high flow or catless DP, intake, exhaust and a meth kit. My JCW made 263 at the wheels on a Stage 2 and makes just north of 290 on a Stage 3. Besides the traditional bolt-ons, the meth kit and OCC are why it's still running hard with over 70k miles. I recommend a larger intercooler and OCC for every vehicle I tune even if a Stage 1.

Oldbrokenwind nailed it on the head. Choose quality components and keep up on preventative maintenance. I changed oil at 5k mile intervals on the Stage 2 and shortened it to every 3k miles when I went Stage 3.

P.S. Also plan on a clutch upgrade. The stock clutch will not handle these power levels for very long.

 

I've put all the basic mods on my car but what is a quality OCC? I'm looking to put on whatever bolt ons I can get and keep the stock turbo. I purposely didn't get a meth kit because I was told I didn't need it unless I was going to swap out the turbo, so does having it add HP?

 

This sounds like you have MORE than 300hp if your car is jumping lanes!!!
Me personally am looking to find the sweet spot and would like to know what are mod quality parts to be bolted on without rebuilding the bottom end?

 

It really depends on the tune.
In general, the addition of methanol enriches the fuel and gives it a higher octane rating, the higher the octane the less likely you are to experience unwanted detonation, and therefore the more aggressive you can be with the timing, more timing advance and more fuel (methanol) = the ability to make more power.
But... As with everything engine related, the actual amount of power has a direct correlation with "all" of your parts, so yes, the factory turbo will play a part in how much extra power can be made.

The biggest benefit to W/M on a car with just bolt-on's or minor modifications is internal engine cleaning and enriched fuel as a safety measure against accidental detonation, along with it's overall cooling effects.

 

I don't know if this is an individual issue or a 2'nd gen issue or maybe even a hard top issue, but I have over 300 whp with my R52 and with the factory LSD and all PowerFlex bushings, I have minimal torque steer, the only issue I have is tire/front end float from loss of traction, but it stays pretty straight and is very controllable.

 

By a quality oil catch can I mean one that is internally baffled and has 3/4" or 19mm connections. Examples of which would be the BSH, ECS Tuning or BMS cans. There's a few others as well that are excellent units. Our PCV system vents excess crankcase pressure from blow by into the intake tract just forward of the turbo. Unfortunately, when oil mist gets mixed in with the intake charge it can lower your effective octane from 93 to as low as 89 resulting in detonation. I recommend an OCC even for Stage 1 tunes for this reason.

As far as meth injection is concerned there are two schools of thought. The first is to use meth injection to add an additional safety factor. Turbocharged gasoline applications will always be det limited. Meaning you will reach detonation before you reach the timing limit for maximum torque. Since detonation limits are dependent on fuel, methanol with its high rating helps level the playing field a bit without resorting to extremes like E85. For moderate tunes a 0.6mm nozzle with an 80/20 meth mix will give you a nice safety margin.

The second school of thought is to use the timing increases methanol allows to make more torque and horsepower. Injecting 500cc of the same mix via a 1.0mm nozzle in conjuction with 93 octane fuel gives you an effective octane rating approaching 100. Besides its actual octane rating it further reduces detonation by lower intake charge temperature via evaporative cooling.

Some important things to keep in mind when following the second school of thought. 1) Ensure your methanol injection system includes a failsafe that will automatically cut boost if you run out of methanol or the system detects a malfunction. 2) Methanol is FUEL. Our fuel systems start to max out when injector time hits 7.2 to 7.5ms. What that boils down to is without meth you can hit 235 to ~250 whp on our stock fuel system, depending on the vehicle. Some Mini's do better than others. A lot of thing come into play and need to be data logged and adjusted for but with meth acting as a secondary fuel source you get much more head room for tuning in additional power. So when tuning for power with meth the presence of meth is critical and skimping on your meth kit is not a good idea.

 

Tigger: that is some damn good info!

So now I got another question. If one does get a meth kit added but still has the stock turbo, does this use of meth allow for a Stage 3 tune (something more aggressive to compensate for the potential octane increase) or is meth something should always be considered if one plans to go with a bigger turbo (which is required for stage 3)? I'm trying to nail down the differences with the stage tunes, specifically with the RPM tune. How many stages are there that's available?

 

I can’t comment on the RPM tunes as we provide our own but Mario can. RPM has a good reputation though and makes an excellent product. For Prototype-R tunes, Stage 1 is designed for stock vehicles. Stage 2 tunes require a larger intercooler and high flow or catless DP, Stage 3’s require everything a Stage 2 does plus a turbocharger larger than what the vehicle left the factory with. We also recommend an intake and exhaust for best results. All stages lower coolant temp to 90°C and each can be customized with a plus option. Things like a linear throttle response, extra pops and burbles, cat preheat cycle delete (for catless) and idle rpm can raised to 900 rpm. In addition Stage 2 and 3 plus tunes can include meth injection.




N14’s and F56 plus level tunes allow map switching when our handheld programmer is purchased and includes the stock tune plus three different performance level maps. Each can be tailored so all three performance maps are what you want them to be. Need 91 octane map cause your planning a cross country trip or let the kids drive it now and them. How about a map with higher boost and extra pops & bangs or maybe one solely for meth injection. With the handheld that's no problem.

Finally, there is the Stage X tune which is designed around forged internals with no limits. Turbo's can be Garrett, EFR or large hybrids, ported head, larger valves, cams even nitrous is an option. These are full one off custom tunes and require data logging and adjustment. Not for the faint of heart.