What you get will depend on the goals of the tuner responsible for the head & his associated mods. One head might be optimized for the drag strip while another may have its torque in upper rpm for the racetrack.

Why not ask a more specific question, such as "how much horsepower does head X turn out at a specific RPM". Or "At what rpm does head X produce peak torque"? Higher cfm (as measured on a flow bench) doesn't neccessarily equate to higher power. Nor will this tell you if hp/tq occurs where you want it.

All associated mods would have to be listed, as various interdependent (and sometimes synergistic) relationships will exist or be absent in one state of tune vs. another.

You may actually be able to reproduce the hp/tq figures quoted, but if it requires that you change your cam, CAI, header and cat-back you're probably gonna have second thoughts.

 

Out of curiosity, what sort of gains are to be had by porting and polishing everything from the TB to the header?

 

I am getting a little more sophisticated thanks to you all. I am looking for more overall useable low end. My car screams at the high end already. Anything I can do to extend the power band lower is good. I am not going 19%

 

We will be testing that in a little while. We are just waiting for the items to arrive, though they are already finished. This includes, the Throttle body, Supercharger to intercooler mount, intercooler to intake manifold, and intake manifold with some major porting.

We are going to be making lots of dyno runs in the near future on these items, as well as some new pistons etc.

 

I want all of it when you are done

 

We are flowbenching every head we do - and we've found all sorts of little tricks to make more power in the head. It isn't just in the porting either. We're now using larger valves than the "larger valves" most of the other guys are using, and our valve job is a bit different as well. The flow bench numbers come with the head when you buy it, so you know exactly what you are getting.


Here's a flow bench test from one of the heads with the old "big valves" - expect a little more flow on the exhaust side with the new valves (I sent that head flow chart to the buyer though).

Final numbers:
intake lift cfm
.050" 52.8
.100 81.7
.150 109.3
.200 138.4
.250 166.5
.300 188.6
.350 203.2
.400 210.7
.450 214.0
.500 214.8


Exhaust lift cfm
.050 50.7
.100 83.5
.150 117.7
.200 141.3
.250 154.4
.300 160.0
.350 162.3
.400 163.4
.450 164.7

You'll note that it says final numbers - that's because we port then take it to the bench, then port some more, then back to the bench, etc. That gives us valuable data to make sure we keep going in the right direction.

I also have two different heads - one is ported for outright top power, the other for drivability. Two different cams are used with those as well.

Finally, our head includes the cam - for $1705, making it the biggest bargain on the market.

Here's a shot of it:





Let me know if you have any questions.

Randy
720-841-1002
www.webbmotorsports.com

 

Here are our other pieces which have been on the market with good success for some time now:










All of these work well together, and the header is a recommended upgrade with the head as well. Upgraded injectors may be needed, and if they are, you also need to upgrade the ECU to take advantage of them. This project may end up costing a bit...

Hope that helps!

Randy

PS - As a side note, we looked at the black intake to the supercharger as well, and found that as long as the flashing and all is cleaned up nicely, the unit flows pretty well. That surprised me if you have ever seen the cross section.

 

Hey Randy good to see your developments - thanks for posting.

What do you mean by "the black intake"? Are you talking about the hose? ...I'm talking about the intake hose to the T/B btw

 

Between the throttle body and the supercharger - the part that the bypass valve goes to.


Randy

 

IF I am correct im guessing the M7 AGS should help solve the tb->supercharger problem. As for all of your products, I am impressed. Do you do anything as far as strengthening pistons and rods goes? Is there any other weak spot in the engine that I should be aware of? I plan on doing all of the above mods + the twinscrew before the summer (including header and adding clutch/flywheel/quaife). I really would like to retain the engines reliability and even though the twinscrew lowers the temps, I think it will probably blow harder than the 15PSI that Im running now.

If I am going to spend the amount of money I am going to spend, I just want to be sure I am getting the best for my money. Thanks for the info Randy

 

Just so you know we are looking at a package cost for all of the items from the throttle body to the supercharger outlet, the outlet of the intercooler, and the intake manifold for a total cost in the high 600's to the low 700's. Though we are still waiting on the numbers for performance.

 

the "we" thing is bugging me. Since all of the porting, extrude honing, throttle body boring is being done by others, (that is, NOT Mini-pilo or Randy) why not send your parts out directly? I can see going to the above vendors directly if they are going to personally build your engine for you, but come on, anybody can send their snoots in for extrude honing without needing assistance .

Projects like developing the auto-rotor, twin-charge and turbo kits and testing intercoolers or developing their own unique parts are where guys like Randy can be of great use.

 

JLM,

We are prviding a service that includes a core replacement. This means that a customer does not have to be MINIless for long periods of time while they wait for some one to port there items. Not all people have the ability to do that as the mini is their main point of transportation. The we in our case is a joint between my self "Pilo Racing" and Dan Paramore of DPR Racing. We have been working for close to a year together developing new parts for the MINI including Pistons, Valves, Retainers, Cylinder head packages and now we are finishing our Full Accessory Porting Line. We have been upfront about who we use because we believe that people should know who and what type of work they are getting. Check our www.dprracing.com to see what you get! That is the value that the vendors bring.

 

Actually, I had 7 different throttle bodies made, all to my own spec, before I went with this one. I also spend time at the flow bench and do the porting. The extrude honed pieces were an idea I had - the runners weren't being done before we started it. Because they were ideas that I developed, and then brought to the market, I use we. We means me and the machnists. Hope that helps!

Randy

 

What were the stock numbers for reference? What pressure drop was used for this test? Have you done any before and after dyno testing with the only change being the ported head? (Ceteris Paribus, ie, all other things being equal?)

 

I'll dig them up for you - but yes, I have all the data. We are using 28 for a pressure drop, and the stock peak numbers are around 120 for the exhaust and 170 for the intake. I haven't done testing with the head not using a cam, as the porting is based on the lift from the new cam, but other than that, yes - I have done dynos with everything else being as equal as possible. The issue is the dynos were done on different days (I had to install the head after all), and I had to try to get the temps the same with the Scan Tool. Dynoing the MINI isn't easy! I've also had customers dyno their own cars, but obviously I have no idea what control was like.

The numbers range from 13 to 19 horsepower on average depending on what other items there are. With the fuel injectors, ECU and other flow items addressed, on a Dynojet, I'm seeing over 20 (but not much over 20).

As soon as I get the stock flow numbers for comparison formatted, I'll post them for you.

Randy

 

> All of these work well together, and the header is a recommended upgrade with the head as well.

I'm curious to see if a header will give significant HP gains with the exhaust valve bottleneck opened up... any numbers?
p4

 

No, I have only tested the head with the header, as most folks who are going far enough to do the head have already installed the header. I don't have any dyno time scheduled, but the next time I go, I'll bring along the stock manifold and swap it.

I believe one of my customers is running without the header, but I'm not sure what numbers he got out of his head - or even if he dyno'ed the car.

Sorry,
Randy

 

With our lowest model of heads without big valves or any thing too crazy on the porting side (we have much wilder versions available now), and with a stock header. This is our dyno graph. 13hp, and 11 Ft LBS. This is the same head that we have been running on the car for 20K miles so far.

We will be changing the header to one that is new to the market and will be available right before the holiday season.

 

I'm also curious to know what kind of gains a performance head can add
to a (non-S) MC with and without a header. (probably with a
performanceintake and exhaust, though).

 

Cristo,


I hate to be so blunt, but the Cooper market just isn't there to justify the cost of the research. I would have to do the porting, using a different cam, put it all together, then dyno it and put it through the test regime. After all that, you and three other customers may be the only MC guys willing to do the upgrade.
If you wanted to help fund the research, I'd be happy to work with you on it though!

There are too few Cooper guys into modding, which is a shame because it is a great car!

Hope that helps,
Randy

 

There would be some gains, but more likely to be highend gains because the MC Engine just does not push as much air as the MCS engine. There will most likely be some low end gains, just not as much as you get on the MCS. We are capable of having this work done, but we can not provide a core for this service.

 

The cores are the same - only difference is the valve.

 

Thanks for the replies, Randy and Dan...pretty much what I figured.
Given the expected gain vs. cost, I guess it was a somewhat
rhetorical question, anyway. Keep up the good work, and I'll keep
on loving my MC.

 

Andy,


Here are those numbers compared to stock. They are stock, 1mm oversized, and 1mm oversized ported.

lift __int stk __1mm stk __1mm ported __exh stk __1mm stk __1mm ported
.050 __32.7___49.3_______51.7________31.0_____29.7_____ _44.7
.100 __66.2___82.6_______84.2________51.4______45.0____ __82.7
.150 __98.2___110.4______111.1_______76.9______81.2____ __113.6
.200 _127.4___136.2______149.4_______97.5_____106.9____ __137.9
.250 _153.0___160.1______176.1_______106.0____120.1____ __151.4
.300 _169.1___179.3______195.5_______111.0____126.9____ __158.6
.350 _174.3___182.3______205.8_______113.0____130.2____ __160.6
.400 _175.7___191.0______209.5_______114.5____132.1____ __162.6
.450 _175.3___193.4______211.0_______115.9____133.2____ __164.3
.500 ___________________215.7__________________________ _166.3

The ported values go higher due to the additional lift of the new cam. This is the street head, and you can see the great increases we got in flow at the lower lift values. The race head has higher flow numbers up top, but not as good at lower values.

Hope that helps!

Randy