That and the fact that it was a rolling start. A MINI in 1st gear at 10 mph can get a huge launch off a turbo Scubby that needs time and rpm to get it's turbos spinning.

 

Duh Thats why we did the rolling start. I was concerned with traction of 4wd more than turbo spooling up.As a matter of fact, at 10mph in first, the WRX has already spooled up the turbo quite a lot. With hindsight, I think from a dead stop I would have won thru 5th. gear but, not by as much. Weight and driveline loss kill the WRX. Now I'm not about to try an STI

 

Yep,it does. It would take about 200+ at the crank in a MCS to get you near these numbers.

I'm not saying that you didn't handle the wrx as I have never gone up against onemyself. Just saying that to get 170hp to the wheels of a MCS it would take some big $$. And yes, a rolling start at 10mph is certainly a big help for the MCS.

 

I don't want, or need to get into a big debate here. It is well know that driveline loss in a mini is 11%. 200 at the crank will provide approx 178whp. I haven't up dated my sig. lately but, with MTH, I'm currently at about 174 whp for under $1,000.00 Now, thats not chicken feed but I don't think in the mini world it would be classified as "big $$"

 

well, this post seems to have taken a turn here....

First off it is right that Scooby's intake is NOT installed correctly. I hope he gets this far into this thread ....:smile:

Now, I don't want this to turn into a debate either, but the facts need to be cleared up here. Firstly, do you, apexer, have any dyno print outs that you could share with us that show you have a whopping 178 hp at the wheels?

Just getting back from another day at the dynos with some other fellow Mini owners, I might suggest that you are dreaming if you think you have 178 at your wheels. Now, I certainly can be wrong here, but my facts are at least here to look at.

Consider GBMINI's dyno results. At the crank and At the wheels

If you would like to read more the visit GBMINI's weblog

 

Not to start a gauze vs. foam war here, but during my high school/college years, I worked as a motorcycle mechanic and raced motocross during the same time. I worked on a lot of motcycles and my empirical experience is 180-degrees from what your mechanic reports. I got to work on numerous motocross bikes every week or two and got to know them intimately. I'd use the finger test to feel what dirt/sand was downstream of the filter and upstream of the carb. 2-strokes almost always have an oily film upstream of the carb and it is a great magnet for trapping what the filter didn't. After cleaning and changing out filters for so many years, my experience was the gauze [alias K&N] filters let more sand/dirt thru the filter, compared to foam.

And from maintenance history/analysis articles I've read, not propoganda testimonials supplied by a manufacturer, the following conclusions are usually made: Pleated paper filters the best, then [2-stage] foam, then gauze. Gauze has the best absolute flow, closely followed by foam, and then paper. And when it comes to a filter that is laoded with filtrate, foam flows the best. You can argue that this is apples and oranges, motorcycles and cars, but the only thing that will change my mind is hard scientific evidence otherwise.

I speculate, it's so easy to do, that your mechanic's 'palm of the hand' test is a result of an improperly cleaned and/or oiled filter. Same thing can happen with gauze if you totally submerge the filter and get outside particulates floating to the inside of the filter.

My apoligies for the strong opinion,

-Barry

PS - For any of you out there with a gauze filter, hold it up to the light. If you see any pinholes at all, a red flag should come to mind.

 

I've been to three pulley parties, with the first two having dynos on the spot. Stock, these babies were doing around 142 to 150, with 145 to 147 range seeing much attention. At the wheels, of course...

From recollection, I recall software and a 15% getting at or near 170 whp, or about about 190 hp at the crank. Actually, Randy now sells a 190 hp package which includes just that combo:

http://www.webbmotorsports.com/forum...p?t=61&start=0

After finding a thread over on MINI2, one guy went from 146 stock to 175 with the addtion of a 15%, Alta intake, and ECU - no catback. Others got 177.3, 178.1, 174, I think one with an aftermkt exhaust. As a note, this was also spanning some very hot days, often exceeding 100+ in the late afternoons...

I think it is generally accepted that an intake, exhaust 15% and ECU will get one 200hp, and probably a bit more for some. With intake and exhaust being about a grand, and pulley and ECU being about a grand, at most, for under $2k one can get 200hp. I suppose that is not cheap, but nearly a 25% increase in power, and compared to JCW prices, it's a pretty dang good deal...

With re to filter media, I was speaking with a tuner recently, and he shared how a filter maker showed him some tests on what gets caught and what passes through various filter types, and the foam one didn't exactly do very well...

 

I have to agree with Muy_Mini about the air filters. I've been tuning two-stroke Vespas and Lambrettas for 22 years and I find that foam works better at filtering than the K&N type of filters. A very, very, very small amount of grit in a rotary-inducted Vespa engine will destroy it within a very short period of time so I pay much attention to the type of filter that I use.

 

I have never taken my car to the track to drag race however on my every day 20 mile each way commute I run into all kinds of fast cars on the northern state parkway. On ocassion I'll roll with a vw1.8t or a wrx (non sti) or an acura type R. I'll play a little with the other car just to see if I can justify all the potential legal, financial and moral trouble. When I do decide to roll with somebody they know is coming and they are obviously trying too.
At about 60 to 70 mph in 6th gear a downshift into 4th floored and off we go.
A stock wrx stands no chance, it'll get it's doors blown off. A modified scooby is a completeley different story. Now, kids do not try this at home. Street racing is Wrong.

Yes, I love my Alta intake.


15%, Alta intake, mth, milltek, kosei/falken

 

Suggest you re-read my post. I never claimed to have 178 whp. Your posted dyno plots indicate a 17% driveline loss which, seems to be excessive. If thats all I got with the JCW package, I'd ask for my money back. If you look at the many dyno numbers posted here and other sites, you'll notice a large varience depending on temp., type of dyno, other mods, alignment of the stars , etc. Finally, How does this relate to the Alta CAI. Funny how we all get carried away .

 

.....well, ....but ....

 

ok guys, play nice

 

Hey guys

getting me worried saying my Alta aint fitted right

There is no partition behind the filter - it just looks dark in the pic

also yours are LHD compared to my RHD so the back is a bit different

ps the red clip has now been replaced with a proper jubilee clip

 

Scooby,

The new word/phrase for the day is "Jubilee clip" For those of us on the other side of the pond - can you enlighten us? Is it a hose clamp type thing? Does it contain any foam or guaze? Glad you are having fun!

Cheers,

 

What I'm seeing is the partition wall behind the intake is still there. Take a look at Randy Webb's How To Guide ( http://www.webbmotorsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3 )& the attached pictures. The 1st is yours, the 2nd is from the guide.

 

He may have just left his weather strip across. I have seen others do this. They remove that panel but leave that rubber strip.

 

OK. So now that I took a closer look and brightened up Scooby's picture. Yes it is installed correct. The rubber seal isn't cut away from the shield as shown on Randy's example. No harm, no foul. I was just worried you weren't getting the most out of your new toy.

 

Foam does a better job of filtering thru-out the life of the filter. Paper clogs up much sooner than foam does.

 

Must not have been a filter with the proper amount of oil in it. Foam will always out perform paper/cotton over the life of the filter.

 

Do you think the Alta CAI is loud?

With the RPM’s high, accelerating hard, the supercharger whine is great sounding but around town with low revs the carburetor (throttle body) hiss sucks. It sounds like my old modified sports car with oversize Webbers. To me it is irritating and I want to minimize the hiss sound without sacrificing much performance.

Has anyone used a different filter on the Alta Silicone air intake / air box?

Looking over the K&N catalog there seems to be several filters that could be used, not exactly matching but very similar.
The one filter I was interested in was # RX-4870, it is actually a little larger in base
diameter but it seems like it should fit, I think, anyone try it? (notice it’s an x-stream as apposed to the conventional rubber top)

After reading this thread, not so sure that the K&N would be better as far as filtering, still wondering if anyone has tried the RX-4870 to reduce the hiss noise?

 

Personally as an atv and dirtbike rider {severly dusty conditions} Kan does not filter as good as other foam filters, i know this for a fact, alot of rider use a brand called uni {same material as alta foam} all though it doesnt let in as much air it does filter out very fine particles of dust and/or sand.


liljack and matchbox

 

I just found this filter test which appears to be very carefully done. The Unifilter foam and the K&N filters passed the most dirt. The filters tested were for the GM Duramax diesel, so the results may or may not apply to other filters of the same manufacturer, but it does make me a bit concerned about how good a job the Alta (Unifilter foam) filter does at filtering.

Mark

 

Wow! That's a neat test.

 

AC Delco made up these charts?!

 

Glad you like it. It's so nice to see a well-designed, controlled test. I always like seeing numbers!

Mark