what happens to idle, cold start, and does it change day to day driveability? What kind of HP and T gains should I expect?

 

I've measured good gains in area under the curve with Schrick camshafts in both Cooper and S, however peak HP numbers were only a few ponies more in both. With the S, peak gains were 12 HP and 12 Lb-Ft on a JCW, those gains were both at 5100 RPM. The gains then taper down on both ends of the RPM band. No percieved change in idle, though exhaust note is "growlier", and throttle response is quicker. Cold start isn't a hardward-based issue, so that of course won't change. This is one of my newfound favorite changes to make to the car, as it really makes the engine feel more "alive".

 

Ryephile, which cam version, 252/260 or the race?

 

"Pick-your-pulley-size"


I tried to find a UNIchip mapping for the 19% pulley no luck yet.
All I can locate is for a 15% pulley install.
Can you help.

 

Randy did the custom pre-maps for the UNIChip, and while he did like 11 or 12 of them, none included the 19% pulley. However, if you are hardset on the 19%, the UNIChip could be tuned to it (and your other mods) on a dyno, albeit there appraneltly is not much wiggle room to get more gains. You might want to chat with Randy to get his thoughts...

 

If you would like an ECU upgrade with the 19%, you really need larger injectors or there won't be much to gain up top. The Cooper S likes to run rich up top to make power and the stock injectors are maxed out up top. Running a 19% with a custom unichip will not only cost tons of dough, but won't make much power. The GIAC with injectors will cost less and make a lot more power.

 

sorry for the delay: Schrick currently only has two grinds for the MINI; Cooper and Cooper S, they dropped one of the MCS grinds.

 

greatgroIf you would like an ECU upgrade with the 19%, you really need larger injectors or there won't be much to gain up top. The Cooper S likes to run rich up top to make power and the stock injectors are maxed out up top.The GIAC with injectors will cost less and make a lot more power.GIAC is great idea....with injectors. Where to buy?

 

Helix but the 19% version isn't available yet.

 

Most of us with the 19% pulley are just sitting tight and waiting for something to be released by Helix13 that will address the next level of upgrade combining GIAC ECU software tuned for the 19% matched with larger injectors. I think it will be worth the wait. I'll trust that Helix13 will make the announcement when this is ready.


Just remember that for those who have not upgraded yet, the 15% pulley and GIAC software combo is ready now. That works pretty good too.

 

greatgro, I think our paths last crossed in that MTH thread when you asserted that the 19% doesn't spin the SC faster. Well, it does. That's why it is able create more boost, as well as heat...

What little I know is from these boards, so I don't profess to be an expert by any means. I say that because I think it's important to keep these discussions as accurate as possible. Here (with the 19%), the issue is not richness, but leaness, or not enough fuel, up top, as you say. That is why larger injectors are needed, to dump more fuel, to get a more desirable and safe a/f mixture. It is not rich enough...

EDIT: You know, after re-reading your post, it appears that maybe you are saying that it likes to run rich, but with a stock pulley. With the topic on the 19, I initially read this as running rich with a 19, thus my dialog above. If so, I apologize.

USAMINICOOPER, it is a bit confusing with such talk. GIAC currently doesn't have something for the 19%, so knowing how much power it makes, or will make, and how it will compare to something else is truly speculative. Reading these forums really does require an open mind, and an understanding that everything here should not be considered the gospel...

If the wait for the 19% is anything like that of the 15%, that would not be a good thing. The GIAC, like many other such solutions, comes pre-mapped, with an attempt to be a good fit for your mods. I say this because not all MINIs are created the same out of the box, yet some sort of baseline is used, not your particular MCS. Thereafter, the various options for intakes, exhausts, and other mods presents still more variables for which such a map doesn't truly take into account. Sure it might come to you "customized" for an aftermkt intake, but which one? If someone one wants it to maximize gains by taking into account their HAI, or M7's new system, for example, it won't. The aftermkt intake used in their testing might have been their own, the Rogue, or some average of a few different ones out there. While I'm sure it affords gains based upon these best guesses, they are certainly not optimal for everyone's unique car, and combo of mods...

Like when one has all of their suspension goodies, and gets an alignment and corner-balance to have everything just right, one with a UNIChip can dial-in and adjust the power output on the dyno. With this being your car on the dyno, with your mods, this is true customization; which allows for personal tweaking to maximize gains.

The UNIChip can taylor itself to whatever you've got basically. One with a UNIChip can go back to stock (pulley), 15, 17, 19 or whatever he desires; including a turbo, or SC replacement.

I think there is no doubt that larger injectors will help those with the 19%. While the MINI does indeed run rich, with the 19%, she needs, or can certainly benefit by having more fuel. The larger injectors will work perfectly fine with the UNIChip, which is available now...

Often we get what we pay for, and this holds true with the UNIChip. For a ton of money more (around 400 bucks), one gets:

the ability to dyno tune their MCS, with their mods, for maximium gains

the flexibility to use this solution with future power-enchancing mods (different size pulleys, turbos, a different SC...) without having to buy another chip ever again

with a flip of a switch, a 2nd map for track days (race fuel)

retainment of the stock map with simple removal (5 minutes)

overwrite protection from the dealer (a big issue for those going in now for recalls where they are forcing v39)

with the flip of a switch, the future control of an auxillary device, such as an intercooler sprayer

and if someone must or chooses to part with their MCS, the UNIChip has resale value, apparently in the 500 dollar range.

I would certainly ring Randy if you want further details on the UNIChip. He's not keen on the 19% though as the belt concerns are very real for him. He can break one on the track almost at will. He feels pretty certain that too much heat is leading to these failures. He recently ran in a 4-hour enduro and finished 3rd only behind two well-prepared 911s. He did so with a 15%. He could have done even better if it weren't for some other issues that he is now currently addressing (not pulley related)...

Oh, Peter at M7 sells injectors. He's a cool guy, and will help ya out. Best of luck!

 

Ryephile, which grind gave the results you reported, the 260/260 or the 264/272.

 

Better late than never... I've been running a MTH 91 octane flash with my 19% pulley for 3 weeks now. (Franz sent me a 94 octane as well) I have observed 2 things. My first gear cold engine stumble is gone. Power does not feel stronger than the stock map, but does feel a bit smoother. I just can't tell if I got any performance boost at all. No dynos here.

Based on the findings of several pioneers within our community, I'm of the belief that larger injectors, with a fuel map that can take full advantage of them, will go a long way towards maximizing performance from the 19% pulley.

 

That I never said (that the 19% doesn't spin the SC faster). What I MAY have said was I didn't think the 19% spun the supercharger MORE overall. In other words, although at any given RPM the supercharger is spinning faster with a 19%, if the supercharger bypass valve is open, you aren't spinning that supercharger under load (compression) and I'm sure that 99% of the supercharger's wear and tear comes from spinning AND compressing air, not just spinning. So if you add a 19% and find yourself shifting at 5k RPMs most of the time instead of 6k RPMs, you'll be spinning the supercharger LESS UNDER LOAD CONDITIONS. Sure cruising at 70mph the supercharger will spin faster with the 19% versus a 15%. But the bypass valve will be open and the supercharger will be doing very little work. That's not going to wear it out.

The stock S runs rich. At HIGH RPMs, the S makes the most power running a bit rich NOT lean. So the 19% would benefit greatly from adding a bunch of fuel up top b/c it already has the ability to compress a heck of a lot of air near redline (16-17lbs). We just need to get more fuel in there to burn! (Thus the larger injectors).

 

Which is why i found it surprising that he ran a 19% at the MINI East vs West track events. ANYWAY, I too believe a 15% is probably better for a track car. If you're always at high RPMs and you don't care that you're always running at high RPMs, the 15% is almost as good as the 19% anyway. But if this is for mainly a street car, the 19% is way better than the 15%. It gives you a lot more pwoer down low - that's where you want it - that's where you feel it - every time you hit the gas when you're daily driving. And I think that fits most of us.

 

Well, since the thread is just a few down, you said:

"Unless you're near redline, it's not spinning the supercharger faster."

It's spinning the SC faster from the get-go, that's why it's able to build more boost so quickly to give that wonderful torque, sooner. The heat that is more attributed to the 19% is because it is spinning faster... Listen, I only bring this stuff up because I got a PM about it, as well as other commentaries in the past. The guy didn't feel comfortable talking about it in the thread, he was confused, and felt that he didn't want to reveal his ignorance.

I also got pinged (PM'd, over on MINI2 actually) on something you said here on NAM regarding how the 19% doesn't pose a reliability issue, and that the only worry is maybe some power loss. I actually told the guy, after finding the thread on NAM, that you probably were strictly referring to a street MCS... But with the added heat, while maybe not enough to cause a belt failure on a daily-driver (not being pushed to its limits), it certainly cannot be expected to help the longevity of the SC either. Such matters of reliability are generally not known in the short-term, and are certainly dependent on how it will be driven. My MCS also serves as one of my commute cars, and with canyon roads starting at the driveway, she has the opportunity to be driven quite hard, often.

Randy admits that he was tempted, and lured to the dark-side of that East/West event . Peter at M7 has some tricks up his sleeve on how to eliminate some of that pesky heat of the 19%; at least in its transfer to the belt. He thinks it will be enough to make belt failures non-existent . We shall see... I too then may come on board if that is the case. From what I've read, an MCS with a 19% can be driven hard, just not really hard, whatever those definitions might be for each of us. I just don't want that in the back of my mind while on a 1 hour, very spirited canyon run...

 

my experience has been that the 19% with other engine breathing improvements, will run lean at the top end only, as the injectors are maxed out. if you put in larger injectors, you can satisfy the WOT top end, but hazard that the overall less than WOT running will be rich. that is what the piggy back fuel manager can help with, by trimming back the number of pulses called for by the computer to a pre-determined optimum.


I see two running conditions:
closed loop (not WOT and not full load): where the A/F sensor servos and sets the injector supply/demand. presumably if the fuel per pulse isn't too radically larger, the servo mode will simply reduce the pulse rate according to the ECU program and the sensor feedback. This is why slightly tweaked injectors will still perform ok without a piggy fuel manager...(the M7 method)

open loop (WOT and full load) here the number of injector pulses is read from a table, without regard to a/f sensor fedback. If you put in larger injectors, you can do the math and see the linear fuel gain. Here the injector better be sized right or you need the piggy to trim it in.

 

jlm, I'm guessing that your TOO MCS needs more fuel than most, if not all others! Did MINI ever "sign-up" with them to do some work?

The M7 method will soon be including a pulley that works to inhibit heat transfer, and if I'm not mistaken, even supress its generation to some degree...

 

No, no. That's not what I'm talking about. Yes, at any given RPM, the 19% is spinning faster than the 15%. BUT...it's not spinning at speeds more than it's supposed to. FOR EXAMPLE...THEORETICALLY...


Spirited Driving (RPMs)
15% 4000-6000
19% 3000-5000

So with the 19% pulley, you could keep your RPMs lower yet have the same (or more) power as with a larger pulley. A 19% pulley is only spinning 4% faster than a 15% pulley. Yet if you can drive regularly at lower RPMs (which you can), you'll be spinning the supercharger less. For the following chart, I made up the stock (0%) numbers. But assuming they were accurate, the following chart would hold true.

Engine RPMS Supercharger RPMs
0% 5000 11667
0% 6000 14000
15% 3000 8050
15% 4000 10733
15% 5000 13417
15% 6000 16100
19% 3000 8372
19% 4000 11162
19% 5000 13954
19% 6000 16660

SO...If b/c of the added low torque of the 19%, you find yourself driving in the 3k-5k RPM range instead of the 4k-6k range, you'll be spinning the supercharger in the 8372-13954 RPM range instead of the 10733-16100 RPM range with the 15%. THIS is how you can (and will) spin the supercharger at the same or LOWER RPMs than a 15% pulley when under load. If you're cruising at a given speed, the bypass valve will be open and it won't matter one bit that the 19% is spinning 4% faster than the 15% b/c it isn't compressing any air anyway.

Now do you understand what I'm trying to say? I'm going to bed...

 

I completely understand that greatgro. Saying that the SC is not spinning faster is not accurate though. It seems that what you wanted to say is that it is important not to exceed an RPM limit, for the SC, and that can be done by limiting engine RPMs.

Get some shut-eye - tomorrow is voting day!

 

I'm glad you brought this up, as I've seen it posted before, and I forget to address in my above response. And before I comment on it, if I'm wrong, I truly want to know as I use these fourms to educate myself - so I'm open to it!

This all makes sense, but maybe I don't want to drive slower. You say that one with a 19 can keep their RPMs lower, as this is like a benefit or attribute of the 19%...

I understand the more usable power concept for the street, but the driving at lower RPMs doesn't sound reasonable or desirable. if I want to cruise at 85 mph on the freeway, I will need to be at a certain engine RPM (6th, near 4k), regardless if I have a 15 or 19%, all else being equal. Gearing, engine RPM, and tire rolling diameter impact speed (and acceleration). The 19% guy, content cruising at a lower RPM is going slower, right? Am I missing something here? I feel fairly certain, but I truly ask if this is correct. If so, the above makes no sense. I'd like to know what I'm missing...

 

I read what Peter has written on his web page. Has anybody spoken with him? When is this coming or is this another false lead.

 

Well, being that he has it in print on his website, and that Randy (Maxmini) has spoken about it (I believe), I would guess that it's going to happen alright. The last I chatted with Peter, the shop he's using is back-logged with upcoming Sema work, thus the delay. I believe the same is true for his intake system...

 

TonyB-Thanks
I just have to wait a few more months.......... I said that before and have been disapointed with claims.
Well I'm on the line and hoping curtain # 3 will have the big prize
I'm sure((( ))) Peter will come through.

 

"Cheapest way to get near 200 hp?"

I have spent a lot of time trying to pick out the best "tuner on a budget" plan for my mods. I am hoping to get close to the 200 hp (at the crank), and slightly improve the overall feeling of the car, while not busting the bank.

Here is what I'm planning:

Pilo Intake
Borla Sport Exhaust
ALTA 15% Pulley
MTH CarTune ECU Upgrade
B&M Shortshift
Whalen Shifter
Rear Sway Bar

From what I can figure, I think this will put me somewhere between 190 and 200 at the crank, while helping achieve quicker shifts and faster exits in the corners (rear sway bar).

Total cost should come in around $1,950. While these may not be the mods that extract every last ounce of performance from my MCS, I do think the gain per dollar spent should be quite good. And the performance/dollar spent is a lot of what attracted me to the MCS to begin with.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on my mod plans? Am I smokin crack to think I can get near the 200 mark with this?

I am hoping to purchase and install most/all of this in early spring (before the Dragon ).