Hey guys. Im sure there are probably threads about this, but i have no idea how current the info is, so, i'm posting. But if anyone has a related thread please share.

Long story short.... im thinking about a NOS kit for my 06 S.

But i have some questions.

First of all, here's what i have

15% alta pully
Full alta exhaust minus header 3"
Stock injectors
Aggressive street tune
better coil pack
Dont remember which plugs or temp value
Alta cold air intake

Here's my thought. Initially, i was jist trying to think of a way to cool the intake air before or after the intercooler. Methanol water injection would do this, but i dont think the power add:cost ratio would be worth it. What 5hp maybe? 10? Idk.. doesnt seem worth the investment.

Spraying nos would cool the air as well as add way more o2. But since I don't have tuning capabilities and there seems to be only 2 people in the universe that tune these cars, i think it will have to be a wet kit. And a dyno run can tell me if its rich or lean through o2 sensor, and then i could adjust nozzles accordingly and not necessarily have to tune the ECU if im doing maybe a 50 shot.

But i have some questions.

One thing about nos, is that on a n/a stock motor, you have to swap to forged internals, and set a huge ring gap that way the rings don't crush and destroy the pistons. Ring gap is the #1 destroyer of nos engines. #2 is slamming the engine with NOS uncontrolled at full blast all at once instead of ramping % over a few seconds time. Even 1 second. So a controller is needed..

So thats one question. In the S, since its supercharged, will the rings handle a 50 shot? Even 100? Or will they compress.

2. Where would i tap into the fuel for the wet kit?

Its been a little while since ive looked at my fuel rail, but i think its a tube... not a solid aluminum block that i can drill tap and threat a fitting into. I may be wrong.

3. Im trying to think of any other reason this car wont do well with a nos kit. Im mainly trying to get more low end power for spirited driving and stomping the occasional camaro or challenger from light to light. But not drag strip.

4. If all else is a go, would i inject before the intercooler or close to the throttle body? I feel like if i injected before the intercooler, it would cool the air better but it may actually give me less power than injecting right at the engine's intake. Typically it goes close to the intake.

Anyone else have experience with this stuff on a mini? Ive run nos before on hayabusas, gsxr1000s. R1s and ls1 v8 camaros... never on a supercharged 4 cyl mini... so any advice is appreciated... including "its been tried and it blows the car up so dont do it" if that's the truth...

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately I can't give you real world experience since I burnt the valves just before my first spray, but I can give you what I found in my initial research.

-Stock bottom end in an S, I'd stick with 50 to be safe, no more than 100 for sure, the ring gap should be adequate because of the SC motor spec.

-Another reason for the small shot is that the ECU should be able to pull enough timing on its own for a smaller shot without having to have it tuned in. (I can't remember for sure, but I think the ECU itself is capable of pulling up to 8° on its own, but don't quote me on the exact amount, it's been a while)

-Wet kit for sure on these motors, esp with limited tuning capabilities.

-2 or 3 steps colder plugs (I'm using 3 because my S/C application already calls for 2) plus anything colder than 3 is hard to find, NGK doesn't even make them, and they're the plugs I prefer.

-Best spot would be in the Post I/C Horn, I'm using the Pre I/C Horn simply because I'm spraying W/M in the Post I/C and don't want any atomization issues between the 2 systems mixing.

-Yes, some type of boost controller really should be used.

-No need to tap the fuel rail, simply remove the valve core from the Schrader Valve at the end of the rail and connect there, it's already a 4an fitting (I think, it's been a long time since I did it)

Unfortunately that's all I can give you as of now, if you like PM me in a month or so, I should be into the bottle tuning phase by then.
Here's my build thread, you can see some of the bottle install info:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...free-time.html

 

Thanks for the input! pretty much exactly the kind of thing i was hoping for. Sorry to hear about your burned valves though, that's always rough! Especially when you're so close.
((speaking of heads, who did your porting? Someone local to you? Or a “mini guru” type person? Not asking because of the burned valves, just wondering if it happens to be the same people I came across online. Not sure whether to trust them or not. ))

1. stock bottom end. -- Just for my own knowledge and benefit, what's the weakest link down there? Usually, it would be either pistons or connecting rods, so i'll assume the same on this car. It's pretty hard to bust a crank shaft typically, unless they are pressed together instead of cast and milled. (a lot of bikes are pressed together, which is why i mention that, and i don't see why they wouldn't do that on smaller 4cyl engines. However, maybe the bearings would be closer to the top of the list too.

2. Yeah, i was wondering how much play the ECU had. Like I said, mine does have a tune, but, it was done before I bought the car so I have no idea the specifics. I just know for sure it was done. I figured it would have some type of automated variation, in timing, to a degree (pun intended), but, i also wondered if it would try to correct for the extra fuel and air as well. Honestly, i haven't really played with my car much, and have barely looked under the hood except for when I need to. Like, changing the oil a few times, coil pack, and a valve cover gasket to stop a pesky leak, etc. aside from that, it was necessity and I didn’t have time to really look at everything. I don't know what sensors are or are not there from the factory. Map and maf or just one or either, how many 02's pre or post cat blah, blah… All of these things make a difference as to how the ecu self corrects or, more accurately, the amount of info it can use to self-correct or attempt to run within its tuning parameters, obviously.
My main concern is that, obviously, the engine can't necessarily automatically cut air flow to the engine, but, in theory should be able to cut fuel if it's too rich, depending upon how it interacts with the injectors. It can shorten pulse widths, or on some applications, (though I doubt it would on this car,) regulate fuel pressure from the ECU. Most things don’t do that.
Point being, if I put a little bit of extra fuel into it, would it attempt to correct for the fuel by not putting as much fuel to the engine, and more or less negate the extra fuel? Of course the NOS adds extra air too, therefore, it SHOULD in theory max out fuel to accommodate the extra air, and then you’d supplement the petrol (I call it gas, but let’s not get confused with nitrous gas, and it’s a Euro car, so…..) and measure it with a meter to get it back to about average under spray. Maybe an AEM UEGO wideband 02 setup… if not a dyno…
I’m sure what I am saying makes sense, but, do you see what I’m “asking” ?
Of course, I wouldn’t just put a 5 shot of nos and fuel to it, but for overly simple obvious math, I’m wondering, for example, if I put a 50 shot, if it self corrects down to, say, a 40 shot, and if you have to adjust the nozzles accordingly to get the fuel:air back up to within tune / average / safe / normal / not lean or rich under spray, under load….. ?
Spraying carbed vehicles is so much easier.
As for the give or take 8 degrees of timing, that’s cool. I think on average, that’s more than enough for a light mist. I don’t plan on redlining the car under spray anyway, I notice that it makes peak power way before redline, so there’s not really a reason to. And if it’s 8 degrees besides what it normally advances for the supercharger, it should be ok in theory. I just hope it responds and adjusts quickly enough. For all I know, it’s powered by an Apple IIe lol.
3. plugs. I’d like to know what you use. I also like NGK and use them in just about everything I work on.
4. spray location. I see you had a similar thought process to what I had (and I’m sure everyone else), and wanted cooler intake temps. As I mentioned I thought about meth water injection. But I’m guessing that it wasn’t a massive power gain by itself.
I do have 1 question though. Have you considered swapping out the w/m pre- I/C and spraying NOS post I/C ?? I’m sure you have your reasons! But I’m just curious. My thought process is, if you w/c it before the intercooler, it should cool the air and condense it, then the nos adds more air and fuel. As well as cools it further. I suppose technically, the way you have it, would do the same thing.. NOS cools before the intercooler, then W/M cools it further as it enters the engine. But I wonder if you’d see more gain the other way.. it may be worth testing on the dyno, if you haven’t already? I’d be very curious to know the results. Regardless, there’s no one here in texas that I know of that would even look at a mini to tune… if it isn’t a mustang, LS1, or a Supra, no one will mess with them haha. Either that, or I just don’t know the right crowd.
5. boost controllers. Is there anything that piggybacks the ECU for the purpose we’re talking about, that may also be able to tweak timing?
6. Funny thing Is, I thought about the Schrader valve, but totally didn’t think about taking the valve out… which, as many tires as I’ve changed in my life, I’m surprised it wasn’t staring me in the face.
Anyway, thanks for the comment earlier, take your time on this, if you choose to respond. I’m several months from purchasing a kit myself, just in the research phase now.

 

I would definently spray both w/m and nos post IC, I just wouldn't want it to collect in the IC


as for piggybacks, the ECU in minis is very complicated and has a self learning process and most likely will compensate for the piggyback


I would definently get a wideband, although the mini runs real rich at WOT and your already tuned to be leaner, the stock injectors can only handle so much. although most people who have a tune have larger injectors, so I would look into that. The injectors might be able to compensate for some of it, but generally the WOT map will not change the parameters

 

The only thing it will require is a 90° 4an fitting to work around the I/C support bracket of the intake, either that or modifying the bracket itself.