The tune is solid, but your car needs to be healthy, because the increase in power will amplify weak points in the car (like worn clutch, old plugs, weak HPFP).

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

I'm running the C. 91 octane. I don't see why anyone would want a less aggressive tune than that. Mine is just fine, if anything I am now more greedy to go to stage 3 with the Owen turbo and maybe cams. Pulls very well though for now. I do find that the ECU seems to be the Achilles heel with our cars though. For instance, I get the thing tuned and it's an animal. Then you drive it a bit in slow traffic (can't help that) and it seems a little less aggressive now. My tuner told me the ECU does learn quick and I did what he suggested to try some hard pulls to avoid "bad learning" but there is definitely less power from when it was tuned right out of the gate. Either that or I got used to it and it's less noticeable. Thoughts?

 

I wonder if what you are experiencing is the ECU testing the limits for timing advance. I believe that the ECU will advance the timing but when it detects knock it will retard it back and "learn" where the limits are. This obviously is highly depend on quality of fuel and unfortunately for you 91 is awful.

I've heard that the car does have really good knock sensing capabilities.

 

I meant reliability.
Last year, I broke piston landings several times. Don't know precisely whether I was on B or C. My MCS is now utterly new from intake to tailpipe, with great mods throughout.

I'm thinking of running the A map for a bit, but data logging all the time to ensure that I don't over boost.

Anyone know the boost limits for each of the Stage 2 maps?

 

So how much did you have to pay to have it fixed? Maybe MarioKart can chime in as to why your having this many problems. You're the first person that I've heard that's actually had some real problems with it. How many miles are on your car and what year is it?

 

I'm curious about this too. You say you broke ring lands several times. Was this on different occasions? Typically ring land failure is from knock (detonation). Insufficient octane and too much timing and/or boost are common instigators? Did you identify a root cause?

 

Yeah I'm really curious as well and would like to know which map that happened in. Maybe they set c up for meth and he ran it without knowing he needed meth for it? I sure as hell don't want that to happen to my car.

 

I've always run 93 octane.
It was on several occasions...three in fact. First time was on my original engine (100k miles), replaced the engine. Second time was (new) piston #1, replaced with stock forged piston. Third was #4 piston, replaced all four stock pistons with JCW set. Unfortunately, then blew *that* engine by throwing a rod through the block, bad rod bearing. All that within five months!

I think the three failures were likely due to too much boost. Unsure about the timing.

Now running with it on the stock map... but very much game to get the boost back. Might be up for hardening the internals of this new engine.

 

It is my understanding that the stock pistons for all of the R56 (S, JCW, GP2) are cast and not forged. To get forged you need to go aftermarket such as CP, Mahle, etc. I believe the rods are powder forged.

The JCW's do have a slightly lower compression ratio than the S. Not sure if this is achieved by piston design, rod length or gasket thickness or a combination the three.

What model year do you have? The some engines, especially the N14, like to use oil, some of which is via a poorly designed PCV system and/or the turbo oil seal which can drastically lower the octane rating of the fuel.

With your history, I'd suggest getting a methanol injection system.

Are you doing the work yourself?

 

I have an 09 R56 , new to me but used. I am enjoying reading all about your gains.

 

Does anyone know if the Manic tune messes with knock sensing or turns it off?

 

That's a really good question! I'm sure someone has an answer. Just an update for everyone I just got the wagner intercooler so I'm one step closer!

 

I would seriously doubt that Manic would turn off or even lessens a critical component such as knock sensing.

 

I doubt it too, but with all the timing advance that is going on, it's making me think a bit more.

 

Alas, another broken piston (#1 cylinder).

I've decided to get the internals built to withstand whatever's coming their way. Recommendations very welcome (and I've been reading through Steven_RW's excellent build thread here http://www.minitorque.com/forum/f272...26/index6.html).

Strength-rebuild begins at Waymotorworks after MOTD.

 

If you broke another piston, then you really need to find the root cause otherwise you'll keep breaking pistons even if they are forged.

 

It's likely too much boost (again). I ran it briefly (a day or two, nothing extreme RPM wise) on maps A and B, then switched back to stock. I'm guessing that one of the rings weakened, etc.

No one has pulled it apart yet to confirm, but it's in the pattern of a broken ring land.

Happily, I trust Way to get it straightened out. I'm done with exploring what stock internals can support.

Any advice on the internals? I'm thinking lowering the compression via larger better pistons, etc.

 

I would just do forged internals form, CP or Wiseco, keep the same shape and CR. No reason to lower CR, but I would have your head cleaned and freshened up.

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Keith, what boost pressures are you running?

 

I ran it so briefly that I didn't get to log it.
However, while I was running stock, the boost stayed below 13. On map A, I saw a spike to 20, but it mostly stayed 15-17 or below. Map B, before it was set to stock (in January), would be at 21 or 22 (but just as a brief blip). I assume all those were "normal" for Manic Stage 2.

I'm just speculating that I had a bad detonation, and it broke through a weakened spot from the pre-stock running. The plug for #1 was definitely dirty when we pulled it for the compression test (90% loss of compression on that cylinder). We'll know more after MOTD. Also note: I was not running the colder plugs, motor was bone stock new N14 block.

What's a shame is that before this motor, the prior one had four JCW pistons in it, and was running very very well on map B (until it had rod bearing issues, and tossed the rod through the side of the block). That's why I'm thinking on lowering the compression, maybe below the JCW, might be a thing to consider. I guess this would take it from a 1.4L toward a 1.6L if I'm following the math correctly... more HP for the boost? Just speculation.

 

Those levels of boost should not cause failure on a healthy engine. I suspect that there is an underlying cause to your failures and if you don't identify and correct it, you'll continue to have the same results. Not using the correct spark plugs may be the reason, an engine will only last a few seconds when experiencing pre-ignition.

Lowering the compression is a good idea if you're aim is to run a high amount of boost. But if you plan on staying at your current levels of boost then I would not lower the compression. Steve_RW is planning on potentially running 3 bar of boost (~45 psi).

 

Keith, with your 3 engine failures, my 1st suggestion is to use another engine rebuilder. Then study up on engine break-in procedures, specifically what kind of oil to use, then how and how long to run it between oil changes BEFORE normal usage.

I probably had an exceptional mfg'g build on my '07, as I ran up to 25 PSI with 91 octane, 50 - 50 WMI, OEM plugs, and a custom AP tune for a couple years before I personally re-built the internals. Now I'm running up to 30 PSI, cold plugs, 91 octane, 80 - 20 WMI, and Manic's stage 4 --- one awesome machine, so far! However, by retaining a 10.5 : 1 CR, my engine reliability, according to popular opinion, is in the toilet. We'll see ---

As for your stage 2 details, your Manic installer should be able to get the specifics for you. I'm told that most stage 1's and 2's are very similar to each other (discounting obvious differences i.e., auto vs manual trans), the significant variations are in stages 3 & 4.

 

Thanks for that reply ...

I think that my issue has been in just doing more or less straight engine swaps at the dealership, and not saddling up for the necessary strengthening, etc. I guess at some point (and after not a few dollars), you learn.

This time, it's headed for Way. The lack of cold plugs might have been the catalyst for the failure, but we shall see. I've accumulated quite enough broken piston ring lands for me!

I am thinking that since we're gonna be in the middle of the engine, and since I'm already deep into it (to the point that I need to be able to drive Buzz for several years worth of Dragon-slaying), I want to do it right. I'm not yet (yet) thinking that it'll be a track machine, but it needs to eat the twisties for breakfast and make my long daily commute put a grin on my face from time to time.

So, I'm thinking ... what will it truly take to get into the vicinity of 250-300whp? Everything on the car engine-wise is new (or relatively so). Does it need a WMI? Does it need an oil cooler? Lowered compression?

I'm attracted to the notion of lowering the compression (to gain hp) because perhaps that's the deepest bang for the buck at this point (along with an appropriate tune, of course). Begs a real question: how much boost for the hp given some compression ratio? Opinions very welcomed!

I will get a build log going on the forum as well.

 

WMI in my opinion is the best mod out there. It is the great compensator for any engine faults.

There is a general rule of thumb for compression ratio vs boost, I'll try and look it up and post it.

 

WMW has a pretty good reputation. You should be able to rely on their suggestions for rebuilding internals. Let them decide the CR and how to achieve it. A lot of that decision will be based on what your ultimate power goals are and ultimate usage. Ask them about their recommended break-in procedure too. If they suggest a bigger turbo, consider one from Owens Development --- I'm told that Manic worked closely with them.

As Cerenkov says, WMI is a very useful mod --- power and intake valve cleaning. Just adding WMI to your existing mods should get you to 250 - 300 WHP. Might even qualify you for Manic's stage 3.