Drivetrain 200 HP Mini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Virginia
Looks like Mini mania is going to market the first turbo kit for the standard Mini. 
But the price 
$5495 ..... or $4995 w/o the intercooler. I think the site is getting so many hits, their server is frying. It took me most of the day to get through. Here is a pic of the performance, if it will show.
But the price $5495 ..... or $4995 w/o the intercooler. I think the site is getting so many hits, their server is frying. It took me most of the day to get through. Here is a pic of the performance, if it will show.
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area
There is an interesting discussion on this topic in the performance modifications forum. The consensus concern is the strength of the standard Cooper's 5-speed. I haven't read whether or not the CVT can handle it...
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Five grand is just too much to pay as far as I'm concerned.
If you are looking for better acceleration and torque, adding a performance camshaft and lighter flywheel will get you that for half the price (depending on cost of install). And you void the warranty either way.
On the 5-speed question, I think the 150 hp rating is probably based on both the gearing AND the clutch disk --
even though I didn't see it on the site, I'm sure they recommend to buyers that you upgrade from the stock clutch disk to an aftermarket high performance one.
If you are looking for better acceleration and torque, adding a performance camshaft and lighter flywheel will get you that for half the price (depending on cost of install). And you void the warranty either way.
On the 5-speed question, I think the 150 hp rating is probably based on both the gearing AND the clutch disk --
even though I didn't see it on the site, I'm sure they recommend to buyers that you upgrade from the stock clutch disk to an aftermarket high performance one.
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
>>Five grand is just too much to pay as far as I'm concerned.
Must be nice to feel that way. You'll be richer than me but I'll be faster :smile:
>>And you void the warranty either way.
That's what most people think and it's what your manual would lead you to believe but the law says otherwise. The consumer is allowed to modify their vehicle and still have the factory parts covered under warrantee unless the dealer can PROVE that the aftermarket parts caused the failure.
From SEMA:
"ARTICLE TWO: You have the Right to use high-quality aftermarket parts and
know that your new car warranty claims will be honored. In fact, your
vehicle dealer may not reject a warranty claim simply because an aftermarket
product is present. A warranty denial under such circumstances may be proper
only if an aftermarket part caused the failure being claimed."
link to Consumer's Bill of Rights
Must be nice to feel that way. You'll be richer than me but I'll be faster :smile:
>>And you void the warranty either way.
That's what most people think and it's what your manual would lead you to believe but the law says otherwise. The consumer is allowed to modify their vehicle and still have the factory parts covered under warrantee unless the dealer can PROVE that the aftermarket parts caused the failure.
From SEMA:
"ARTICLE TWO: You have the Right to use high-quality aftermarket parts and
know that your new car warranty claims will be honored. In fact, your
vehicle dealer may not reject a warranty claim simply because an aftermarket
product is present. A warranty denial under such circumstances may be proper
only if an aftermarket part caused the failure being claimed."
link to Consumer's Bill of Rights
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
It's not too hard for them to say that an extra 80 hp killed your engine if something goes wrong... The engine and tranny are NOT designed for the extra hp and torque, so if something goes wrong you're pretty much screwed. That is unless it's something like a gutter comming off, or a squeaky seat. But most engine issues will be on your own watch after putting so much extra power into the car.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Hey, I didn't say that I didn't WANT a Turbo! ...just that I can't afford a $5000 turbo.
I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
Trending Topics
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
The consumer is allowed to modify their vehicle and still have the factory parts covered under warrantee unless the dealer can PROVE that the aftermarket parts caused the failure.
If a dealership decides not to cover a warrenty repair because you modded the car, then as the customer you will be in the right to claim Magnuson-Moss protects you. Being in the right doesn't pay the bills on it's own though. You have to be willing to go the distance to protect your rights as a customer. So, if you want your repair covered after the dealership denies to cover it because of a mod you would have to do one of the following:
(1) hope the dealership rolls over at the mention of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (not likely)
(2) you prove to the dealership via the courts that Magnuson-Moss applies to your particular case and that the modification was not to blame.
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Heh, I can't neccessarily afford it either, I'm just trying to think of how much credit I have and what I can sell on ebay!
The off-road use only is because it's not CARB certified. So it's not certified for California emissions. What this means is that you won't pass a visual emissions inspection if they know to look for the CARB stamp. It should still run clean and pass the actual emissions test as long as the car is tuned right. It won't run any dirtier than the cooper S. And actually, the turbo kit says it only has 5-7 psi of boost. The supercharger on the S has something like 11.6 psi. So a turbo is actually easier on your engine. The additional hp comes from less parasitic loss from a turbo vs a belt driven supercharger, not from additional strain on the engine. And yes, I'm willing to take them to court if it comes to it :smile:
>>Hey, I didn't say that I didn't WANT a Turbo! ...just that I can't afford a $5000 turbo.
>>
>>
>>I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
>>
>>The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
The off-road use only is because it's not CARB certified. So it's not certified for California emissions. What this means is that you won't pass a visual emissions inspection if they know to look for the CARB stamp. It should still run clean and pass the actual emissions test as long as the car is tuned right. It won't run any dirtier than the cooper S. And actually, the turbo kit says it only has 5-7 psi of boost. The supercharger on the S has something like 11.6 psi. So a turbo is actually easier on your engine. The additional hp comes from less parasitic loss from a turbo vs a belt driven supercharger, not from additional strain on the engine. And yes, I'm willing to take them to court if it comes to it :smile:
>>Hey, I didn't say that I didn't WANT a Turbo! ...just that I can't afford a $5000 turbo.
>>
>>
>>I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
>>
>>The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 0
From: Lockport, NY, USA
It might be faster, untill you hit a bump... BUMP... 'What was That?' 'Oh, just my intercooler hanging off the front bumper'...
heh heh...
And I don't think that they would have much trouble tracing damage to the turbo....
Rocketboy_X
"My MCS might not be the fastest, but it doesn't need to be..."
heh heh...
And I don't think that they would have much trouble tracing damage to the turbo....
Rocketboy_X
"My MCS might not be the fastest, but it doesn't need to be..."
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
>>It might be faster, untill you hit a bump... BUMP... 'What was That?' 'Oh, just my intercooler hanging off the front bumper'...
>>
>>heh heh...
>>
>>And I don't think that they would have much trouble tracing damage to the turbo....
I really, really, really want to find a different place to mount that thing! I might get custom made ones if it's possible to squeeze em in somewhere else.
The main thing I'm risking with a turbo is the transmission. I really want to get a 6 speed eventually anyway. I didn't get an S for a few reasons - didn't like the hood, wanted a cloth interior, wanted a turbo, but man I'd love that 6 speed!
>>
>>heh heh...
>>
>>And I don't think that they would have much trouble tracing damage to the turbo....
I really, really, really want to find a different place to mount that thing! I might get custom made ones if it's possible to squeeze em in somewhere else.
The main thing I'm risking with a turbo is the transmission. I really want to get a 6 speed eventually anyway. I didn't get an S for a few reasons - didn't like the hood, wanted a cloth interior, wanted a turbo, but man I'd love that 6 speed!
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Agree with your points... I CHOSE to NOT get an S !
There were several items which influenced my decision to buy the MC, and not an S:
- the cleaner lines of the MC, specifically the hood - it has just the right curves/slant to it.
- the chrome grill.
- the rear spoiler. I much prefer the Sport pkg spoiler to the S spoiler.
- I prefer the 5 speed layout, with Reverse is at the bottom right, down from 5th. It just seems more natural to me.
- with the Sport pkg on the MC, there is NO difference in handling between them.
- the 16inch wheels seem to be just the right size, 17s make the ride that much harsher and don't seem to improve the handling.
- 'off the line' acceleration is about the same. While the supercharger gives you a better mid- and high-RPM range kick, I don't think it’s worth the price. Some basic intake & exhaust mods to the MC, and you're pretty much there. I'm not saying this will boost your 6000+ rpm HP to 163, but probably will get you close enough so you won't care at the top end.
my 2 cents!
There were several items which influenced my decision to buy the MC, and not an S:
- the cleaner lines of the MC, specifically the hood - it has just the right curves/slant to it.
- the chrome grill.
- the rear spoiler. I much prefer the Sport pkg spoiler to the S spoiler.
- I prefer the 5 speed layout, with Reverse is at the bottom right, down from 5th. It just seems more natural to me.
- with the Sport pkg on the MC, there is NO difference in handling between them.
- the 16inch wheels seem to be just the right size, 17s make the ride that much harsher and don't seem to improve the handling.
- 'off the line' acceleration is about the same. While the supercharger gives you a better mid- and high-RPM range kick, I don't think it’s worth the price. Some basic intake & exhaust mods to the MC, and you're pretty much there. I'm not saying this will boost your 6000+ rpm HP to 163, but probably will get you close enough so you won't care at the top end.
my 2 cents!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 0
From: NY NY
the most basic difference, and it is way in favor of the s, is that the engine is simply better engineered. No matter how much tweaking you do to the cooper, you are not going to have oil cooled piston crowns and modded oil pump, drop forged crank (not cast), forged, not sintered rods, inconel valves and a flowed head. start with that basic setup and tweak away, supercharger be damned.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
From: Dunedin, FL, USA
>>Heh, I can't neccessarily afford it either, I'm just trying to think of how much credit I have and what I can sell on ebay!
>>The off-road use only is because it's not CARB certified. So it's not certified for California emissions. What this means is that you won't pass a visual emissions inspection if they know to look for the CARB stamp. It should still run clean and pass the actual emissions test as long as the car is tuned right. It won't run any dirtier than the cooper S. And actually, the turbo kit says it only has 5-7 psi of boost. The supercharger on the S has something like 11.6 psi. So a turbo is actually easier on your engine. The additional hp comes from less parasitic loss from a turbo vs a belt driven supercharger, not from additional strain on the engine. And yes, I'm willing to take them to court if it comes to it :smile:
>>
>>>>Hey, I didn't say that I didn't WANT a Turbo! ...just that I can't afford a $5000 turbo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
>>>> >>>>The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
>>
quote^^^^
--------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but you don't know what your taking about regarding a supercharger being harder on the engine: The reason the turbo kit for the Cooper is only 5-7 psi is because the engine is NOT designed for a turbo. The Cooper has a standard, high compression engine. The Cooper S is designed for boost and hence has lower compression. PLUS a turbo's bearings use engine oil for lubrication which means it exposes the oil to very extreme heat and destroys the oil faster. This is why you find special "turbo" oils and more frequest oil change recommendations for turbo engines.
No offense but check your facts on turbo engines.
Vince
>>The off-road use only is because it's not CARB certified. So it's not certified for California emissions. What this means is that you won't pass a visual emissions inspection if they know to look for the CARB stamp. It should still run clean and pass the actual emissions test as long as the car is tuned right. It won't run any dirtier than the cooper S. And actually, the turbo kit says it only has 5-7 psi of boost. The supercharger on the S has something like 11.6 psi. So a turbo is actually easier on your engine. The additional hp comes from less parasitic loss from a turbo vs a belt driven supercharger, not from additional strain on the engine. And yes, I'm willing to take them to court if it comes to it :smile:
>>
>>>>Hey, I didn't say that I didn't WANT a Turbo! ...just that I can't afford a $5000 turbo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I also think that despite what the Moss-Magneson Act says, if you bolt a Turbo onto your car that that causes it to exceed the recommended load for the transmission and even the manufacturer recommends it for "off-road use" only, common-sense tells you that if you blow the engine or transmission then the warranty ain't gonna pay for a replacement!
>>>> >>>>The MINI lawyers would be saying -> we'll see you in court first.
>>
quote^^^^
--------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but you don't know what your taking about regarding a supercharger being harder on the engine: The reason the turbo kit for the Cooper is only 5-7 psi is because the engine is NOT designed for a turbo. The Cooper has a standard, high compression engine. The Cooper S is designed for boost and hence has lower compression. PLUS a turbo's bearings use engine oil for lubrication which means it exposes the oil to very extreme heat and destroys the oil faster. This is why you find special "turbo" oils and more frequest oil change recommendations for turbo engines.
No offense but check your facts on turbo engines.
Vince
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
I think the $3k from Cooper to Cooper S is an incredible bargain. Not only do you get a 48 point increase in hp (which is worth the dough alone, IMO) you also get:
1) Stronger, reinforced engine components
2) Getrag 6-speed trans (rated at 200+hp)
3) Sport seats
4) Wheel size upgrade (standard wheels go from 15" to 16"
5) Traction Control
6) Xenons are now included in sports package saving you money if you get the package.
7) Super cool-looking dual exhaust
Spoiler
9) Sports suspension PLUS
All of this for $3k? An unbelieveable deal IMO.
Someone had posted that ONE of the reasons they bought the Cooper over the S was the more natural position of the reverse gears with the 5-speed. Hey - I've never had reverse on the left before either and believe me, the first few times in my MCS it was weird to say the least. But you know, after about a week (or much less!) it'll become second nature. I'm sure a "normal" location for reverse would be weird for me now.
1) Stronger, reinforced engine components
2) Getrag 6-speed trans (rated at 200+hp)
3) Sport seats
4) Wheel size upgrade (standard wheels go from 15" to 16"
5) Traction Control
6) Xenons are now included in sports package saving you money if you get the package.
7) Super cool-looking dual exhaust
Spoiler9) Sports suspension PLUS
All of this for $3k? An unbelieveable deal IMO.
Someone had posted that ONE of the reasons they bought the Cooper over the S was the more natural position of the reverse gears with the 5-speed. Hey - I've never had reverse on the left before either and believe me, the first few times in my MCS it was weird to say the least. But you know, after about a week (or much less!) it'll become second nature. I'm sure a "normal" location for reverse would be weird for me now.
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: California
"I think the $3k from Cooper to Cooper S is an incredible bargain. Not only do you get a 48 point increase in hp (which is worth the dough alone, IMO"
Ah, if it were only $3k. Out here in CA at least, it's more like $4,500.
Ah, if it were only $3k. Out here in CA at least, it's more like $4,500.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 112
Likes: 11
From: St. Petersburg, FL
Lets see ... we get 48 more HP for about $3000 going to the MCS. I think almost anyone reading this would pay $3000 for the next 48 HP which would really be something to dream about. MC or MCS, the next 48 would be great! :smile: :smile:
Banned
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Gain HP lose Torque.... Both Coopers are a bargain. The S has had more problems, If you wanted to upgrade to more HP, then you'd have to lose the factory installed Supercharger ... install an aftermarket version... and still fall short of 200HP....
If you want a fast Cooper, wait 2 years... BMW is going to have to Boost their little car to compete with the Dodge Neon SST and the New Clio ( Puegot? ) The Clio is a much faster car in the same class... I believe it comes stock, with 220Hp... I could be wrong...
But in order for BMW/MINI to compete with these guys, they'll have to do more than rely on their good name.
So save the $3k -$7k for a trade in amounts! Maybe they'll release the Mini Cooper GTS by then.
If you want a fast Cooper, wait 2 years... BMW is going to have to Boost their little car to compete with the Dodge Neon SST and the New Clio ( Puegot? ) The Clio is a much faster car in the same class... I believe it comes stock, with 220Hp... I could be wrong...
But in order for BMW/MINI to compete with these guys, they'll have to do more than rely on their good name.
So save the $3k -$7k for a trade in amounts! Maybe they'll release the Mini Cooper GTS by then.
Neutral
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Are you referring to the Renault Clio Sport V6?
255bhp; no indication the car is coming to America. But if Mini feels compelled to compete with this car, I won't complain.
--to the maximini
255bhp; no indication the car is coming to America. But if Mini feels compelled to compete with this car, I won't complain.
--to the maximini
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena, CA
This seems like the right thread to ask if anyone in SoCal has recommendations for good dyno testing facilities (that they have personally used on their cars).
We've got the obligatory exhaust, headers, intake... but it still seems that 200 HP is quite a ways ahead (my guess is we're somewhere in the 180-190 HP range currently).
Happy New Year, MINI folks and Motor On towards 200 in 2003
We've got the obligatory exhaust, headers, intake... but it still seems that 200 HP is quite a ways ahead (my guess is we're somewhere in the 180-190 HP range currently).
Happy New Year, MINI folks and Motor On towards 200 in 2003
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
igzekyativ
MINIs & Minis for Sale
28
Dec 23, 2015 10:36 AM
ECSTuning
Vendor Classifieds
0
Aug 7, 2015 05:55 AM