Hi All, I went to East Hartford ,Conn. to one of Randy Webb's famous pulley parties yesterday.Had an Alta 15% pulley,Alta intake and irridium plugs installed and all I can say is it would take some kind of explosive to wipe the smile off my face.Great to meet jurni,d-miniero(and his ultra-fly new/old BMW) and a bunch of others too.Screen names are soooo impersonal.Best of all was meeting Randy himself and getting to watch the master at work.He is so willing to share his knowledge,and I got the famous suck,suck,bang,blow lecture on how 4 strokes work and in particular how the brazilian bombshell does what it does.All these mods,plus the traction T/A's I had put on last week,and it's like getting a new car that is waaayyy better than my old one,and I thought that one was the best.So ,for anyone sitting on the fence about performance mods,the word from here is GO FOR IT! Peace. Jock

 

Yep. Randy is a hoot. I wish I could have had the party here at my place on the Cape again, but things happened and my warehouse filled up to the rafters.


How long before you put the 19% on? You know you've thought about it. You know you just gotta try it. You know you want it!

 

I would be curious to see how my 15% + Unichip holds up against your 19% alone.... sure the 19% is cheaper but the 15% creates less heat and a tad less engine wear.

 

Bring it!

 

The difference in price hovers around $700 so you have to ask if you get that much worth in terms of performance or reliability.

For all gears the 19% gives more HP and torque earlier on and makes every gear more usable. Heat becomes an issue when you rev higher but if you get power down in lower rpms then you don't need to rev high unless you want to stay in the lower gears.

Assumining that you have a relatively good version of the stock ECU program, a 19% pulley will do quite well in any comparison test with a 15% pulley and Unichip. A good test is to get the same one driver and do timed 0-60 and quarter mile runs x 3 comparing the two. Other factors come into play like tires, LSD, other mods.

 

[QUOTE=minihune]The difference in price hovers around $700 so you have to ask yourself, "Are ya' feelin' lucky? Huh? Are ya'?"

QUOTE]

 

I don't know if Andy has done any more 1/4 mile runs with his 19%, but with what he shared a few months back, his best time was still with the 15%. Given that these short burts don't generate the kind of heat of a track event, I think many of us would have thought that the 19% would be king on the strip. Maybe short-shifting is the trick to get from point A to B faster with a 19%. If that doesn't do it, I don't see reason to make such a move...

 

Randy seemed fairly adamant that the 17 and 19 are not a good idea.For my purposes ,the 15 is plenty.Sure ,I'd lke to try one out ,just to see,but my ride has a long haul plan for me.I did manage to offer to make a couple more pully pullers (I am a tool maker).Maybe that will buy me some credit in heavan ,who knows.Bisch,maybe I'll take a ride down your way after the summer madness is out of the way,cause I would like to try yours out.There was a guy(?) at the party Sat.who seemed to have every mod in the world on his car(Randy said it was the fastest MINI he had ever been in) claims 250 HP.Very trick! I didn't dare ask him for a ride,there wasn't any good spots to really open it up where we were anyway.His car looked like an advertisement for Alta:exhaust,oversized water to air intercooler ,18 inch wheels,big brake kits,high compression head,full race cam,unichip,Alta CAI,I'm sure there was more, but I'm not sure what.Big guy with grey beard,Mid 40's.Never got his name.

 

My tires are **** for now. Still have the runflats... I think ill go with the Azenis when I do finally wear through these ones. I am fairly confident in my 15% with the unichip..... I would think that it would pull harder in the higher (6500+) RPMs because that is when the supercharger loses efficiency with the 19% whereas the unichip gets it moving hard after about 5500 RPM. Who knows.... I do know that I was able to pull on an SRT-4 last night tho ... cant say where or how fast due to laws but if you want more info PM me

 

Actually this really shouldn't be the case. But since the 19% doesn't give much more HP at high RPMs versus the 15%, in something like the quarter mile there really shouldn't be a great difference between the two. This is why I was surprised to see Randy using the 19% at the track. The 19% doesn't have great advantages when you're using high RPMs only like at the track and the drag strip. The reason to get the 19% is actually for daily driving. Many people don't spend all their daily driving time in the high RPMs and many people don't want to - either for convenience, engine life or gas mileage purposes. With the 19%'s great torque advantage over the 15%, it gives you great power (torque) anytime you hit the gas - even at 2k RPMs while you're cruising through town. Having the 19% is something you'll appreciate every time you hit the gas - something no other mod can say. I know b/c I drove 11k miles stock, 16k miles with the 15% pulley and 23k miles with the 19%. The 19% is SO much better than the 15% on a daily driving basis. But for max acceleration, once you get going and bring it to redline in first gear, the 19% is only marginally better than the 15% since you'll be staying between 5k-redline for the rest of the run.

That said, this will all change when the new ECU solutions become available for the 19% pulley. These "solutions" will not only add a chunk of torque at low and mid-range RPMs, but they will add a nice amount of HP at the top end also. Unfortunately though, we still have to wait.

 

With the many charts and graphs, coupled with an abundance of butt dynos, I think we all would have to agree that the 19% delivers down low much better than the 15%.

And, given that several MINI tuners advise against the 19% for high speed track use, and with the 1/4 mile feedback (not exactly high speed), it is seemingly apparent that at the higher RPMs, it fades in relation to the 15%... enough so to where it's power creation becomes increasingly inefficient. The data provided shows boost and torque increases across the entire RPM range for the 19 over the 15%. In reality, this is not translating into a faster MCS... unless the distances measured are much smaller.

It all comes down to preferences I suppose. Personally, for my canyon runs, and spirited rural drives, from the data thus far, the 19% would seem to be less desirable than a 15%... If quick burst like from stop light to stop light were my passion, then I would be thinking seriously about the 19.

And while being in higher RPMs (15%) is not beneficial to the engine's longevity, engaging the SC more often and working it harder (19%) is not exactly ideal for longevity either...

Given the A/F ratios of the 19%, apparently there is not a whole lot of tweaking possible. Time will tell, but after hearing Randy's explanation, I would not hold much hope that a 19% and tailored ECU will become a no-brainer for any performance enthusiast...

 

That was me. Only 17" wheels, though the big-*** brakes in front throw things out of proportion. You could have driven the car. Addie did, and so did Randy en route to his hotel (across the street from a strip club and down wind of a sewer plant- seems like one of those expedia.com adds gone wrong) and smoked the tires and brakes big time. After kicking my car's *** it seems to run better. Randy is on me to change the exhaust system that just won't hang right- I'll probably cave on that one after hearing the UUC.

The parties are a good time and you learn a lot, and some of it is even worthwhile. Hope to see you at another event.

 

PMC, I wish I could have been there. Sounds like you've been dumping your wallet into the car!!! The Alta still isn't hanging straight? Are the tips still mis-matched in color from the heat, or did you torch the other one to match??

Tony, I'll explain my 1/4 mile runs...
With the 15%, I was running mid 15's and low 90's in cool weather last fall and earlier this spring. My best with the 19% was a couple weeks ago at 14.6xx. The temps then were at least 20 degrees warmer than with the 15%. The 19% is certainly faster if run at the same temp. When I ran the 14.6xx (19%), the track was busy so I sat in line heat soaking the IC (stock). When I ran the 15%, the track was empty so I was running virtually non-stop passes, ie no heat soak.

For the last couple of runs at the track, my very first run of the night has been my fastest...no surprise. When things heat up, I slow down. When I get a larger intercooler on, look out!

 

Thanks for the info Bisch. That is encouraging for the 19%! It seems that you added the HAI along with the 19% when you got that great time. Anything else different from the 15%?

 

What other mods are on your car bisch? I am fairly confident I am doing low-mid 14s

 

I can see the 19% building pressure faster than the stock or 15% pulleys, until it gets to the critical RPM range where the SC is going faster than its design speed.

But with the additional HP required to make the SC spin 19 percent faster, plus the inertia involved to spin the SC, water pump, A/C if on, and the alternator, constantly 19 percent faster, it would seem a number with diminishing returns. Not to mention the constant wear factor on these components. I can see why the belt wears faster, but would associate that with mis-alignment or the belt no longer correctly sized for the HP required (wider belt).

 

I can't get the tips perfect. I did torch the SOB to get the right tip close to the color of the leeft that takes the flow and put some black paint inside, but it is not exact. I think Randy is just egging me on the keep the cash flow moving, but I was impressed with the UUC and I'll probably put one on before the next Mini event.

I hope all is well in Hyannis. I hear tourist season is open- what do you use on them?

 

The HAI would be best suited for road track. The HAI works well at the strip, but until cool air flow is reached from forward motion, you suck in a lot of hot air from the engine compartment. Here are my mods:
*19%
*SS header
*M'flow
*15" lightweight wheels/Azenis
*modified Alta air diverter
*HAI

My 14.6xx run was done with more than 3/4 tank of 91 octane and full interior (including two child seats). And, for the love of God, NO. The kids were not in the car! Oh, and I am a fat bastard too! (let's just say...middle 200's)

 

9mm is cheap enough for plinking. I save the .50cal for long range, off season hunts.

 

But remember, the supercharger bypass valve is open a good deal of the time. So the supercharger is spinning, but with no resistance. The valve is open except under pretty hard throttle. Yet another reason why I don't think the 19% will wear much faster than the 15%, if at all. If you shift a tad earlier with the 19%, you'll spin the supercharger at less RPMs. And when you're cruising, the bypass valve is open and the 19% (although spinning at a higher RPM than the 15%) is not fighting any resistance and therefore not being stressed.

 

It's funny, I see it the exact opposite. On canyon runs and spirited drives, the 19% will be used and felt everytime you touch the gas. It would turn a great ride into an unforgettable ride. Whereas if all you wanted to do was drag, the 15% is just fine. However, after Bisch's explanation about his 1/4 mile runs and how the 19% seems significantly faster, maybe the 19% truly is better for everything. Having driven both for many many miles, it sure feels like the 19% is much better everywhere. Just wasn't sure the data would back it up completely.

 

Yes, I understand that, but your still spinning the mass of the SC and the water pump, and that takes additional HP to do so.


I was wrong about the AC and alternator. I was thinking of the reduction kits for other applications that include pulleys for these items. Just the SC and water pump is affected by this.

 

Right, FURIOSO.

 

The 19% is generating more power because it is creating more boost, and it does so quicker. The SC is in boost creation mode more so than with a 15%, and b/c of that, there are the longevity concerns, and related issues such as belt breakage.

The point of diminishing returns is real. I believe Randy used the term adiabatic inefficiencies. I don't think the 19% will ever be the cat's meow for every performance endeavor.

There has been talk of how going from stock to a 15% is nothing compared to the jump from 15 to 19. The drag strip says otherwise though. Converting from a stock pulley to a 15% makes for a faster MINI. Going with a 19 (compared to 15) appears to be mixed at best...

For all types of driving, going from stock to 19 is not a no-brainer decision... For a 15, it is.

Here is the aforementioned log that Andy maintains:

http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/d...artermile.html

 

I have heard this too. I wish someone would come forth with actual data to support this theory. I have a difficult time believing that the point has been reached.