no offense to anyone. :smile:

 

>>>>it is 100% pure carbon. Hmmm, if carbon is bad at heat insulation, I wonder why the Space shuttle is made mostly of it?
>>
>>Ah hahahah. That made me spit my coffee out!
>>
>>1) I don't think your intake is 100% pure carbon. Is it really? That would be very fragile.
>>2) The Space Shuttle tile insulation contain almost no carbon. It is foam-like glass. Shuttle tiles
>>
>>I guess I cound say: "if carbon is so great at insulating, why doesn't the Space Shuttle use it" :smile: and it does work and also provides great bling (got some under the hood of my ride). For a CAI application, plastic will always work better, but CF will always look better (well to everyone other than my wife). :smile: I do run a Dinan CF intake tube on my M3 but I know it gets hotter than the insulated AA intake heat shield I had before but it does look great and sound great and I'm willing to trade a little hp for the bling.

_________________
Roman S.

MaxVelocity.net

 

I think the coefficient of heat transfer is really not a big issue between any of these. The temperature differences are small enough and the air is flowing quick enough to make the heat transfer a real issue. If it was in standing air on both sides of the shield and the air was a couple of hundred degrees greater than you might see something. Otherwise I am going to state that if you ran measurements on a car going 65mph you will not see a difference.

 

>>I will save all other products that we making till release date but here is a sample of what's to come in a couple of weeks.
>>
>>

 

>>I think the coefficient of heat transfer is really not a big issue between any of these. The temperature differences are small enough and the air is flowing quick enough to make the heat transfer a real issue. If it was in standing air on both sides of the shield and the air was a couple of hundred degrees greater than you might see something. Otherwise I am going to state that if you ran measurements on a car going 65mph you will not see a difference.

dgszweda1 - You have a very good point. Unless you are auto-x, waiting your turn to get on the track, street, or drag racing the heat will not be a factor as ambient air will always be moving faster over the intake area.


_________________
Roman S.

MaxVelocity.net

 

Max, I really was just razzin' you about your post. No offense intended.

>> I can give you more examples of air craft that fly over the speed of sound and use carbon for their skin

I don't believe that is such an airplane, and I would be interested in reading about it. I'm willing to read and change my mind about lots of things.

Please post your reference for "air craft that fly over the speed of sound and use carbon for their skin"

 

>>Max, I really was just razzin' you about your post. No offense intended.
>>
>>>> I can give you more examples of air craft that fly over the speed of sound and use carbon for their skin
>>
>>I don't believe that is such an airplane, and I would be interested in reading about it. I'm willing to read and change my mind about lots of things.
>>
>>Please post your reference for "air craft that fly over the speed of sound and use carbon for their skin"
>>

No offense taken, Trippy... I'm just trying to provide the MINI community with more choices. Isn't that what most people want, choices? I'm also offering alternative materials other than steel for equal or lesser cost :smile: ... This is a hobby/part time business for me and not my full time job so if you like my offerings, then great, if not, well, you don't :smile: So in theory your MINI will be less likely to be harmed by surface to air and air to air missles

_________________
Roman S.

MaxVelocity.net

 

>>>>Please post your reference for "air craft that fly over the speed of sound and use carbon for their skin"
>>
>>Two airplanes come to mind right away:
>>
>>F-117A stealth
>>F/A-22 Raptor

The F-117A stealth fighter is a "high subsonic" fighter aircraft.
<A HREF="http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors
/blF_117A_Nighthawk.htm" TARGET="_blank"> invention site</A>

I have only been able to verify that some of the fuselage of the F-22 Raptor is a carbon composite. It does indeed cruise supersonic, although just barely (Mach 1.5)

I think your implication that carbon/epoxy or carbon/plastic composites are heat-resistant is unfounded.


Just send a video of you holding even a small propane torch against your carbon-fiber intake heat shield for 1 minute and I'll be convinced. That should be very very simple for you to demonstrate with tools at hand.

As I said, I'm willing to rethink the idea with further evidence.

_________________
Team: Rational thought

 

replies to several

&gt;&gt;flyboy2160 - we didn't elimate anything. the air box is closed by design and that is how we tested it. We did not block anything and we did not remove anything other than the filtration systems and heat shield/top of air box and some screws.

...
&gt;&gt;Even with an open hood the heat shield sits inches in front of the filter acting like a wall for the K&amp;N filter while the fan is working. The filter would still be sucking in air from any sources that are available. You are right, we are not completely scientific with our testing BUT we are close. &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;

YOU ARE NOT CLOSE.....what part of this don't you understand? your website shows your inlet box hooked up to the same old stock front port and pipe back to your box. when you test your inlet with the hood open you augment this flow path with a totally open top, but it's the only one available for the stock inlet and for yours in real operation. your numbers are bogus or lies.

- the 117 is not supersonic. the f-22 is, as is the f-18. the determining factor at the speeds these planes fly is NOT the carbon fiber, but the matrix (plastic) it is cured in. the carbon itself is good for several hundred more degrees of service than the matrices these planes use. other aerospace parts use carbon fiber in a much higher temperature resin, polybenzymidazole, up to ~800F.

 

This is really interesting. So for only about $175, not only is my intake air protected from the heat generated hypersonic speeds, but I am a little less prone to being hit by a surface to air missle. Normally I would say so what, but with the current climate of our war on terror, this is really a great idea. I live near a large airport and a big city, so this comforts me all the more. All of the generators and the mobile home in the mountains that I bought during the Y2K crisis seems small compared to the protection that this intake shield will offer me. Will MaxVelocity be offering any other protection kits from missles, like flares or EM devices? Also, will an intake, exhaust, TB mod, pulley, and Unichip get me close to hypersonic speeds. I saw some crazy hp gains from the Unichip, so I am thinking that would make a big difference. I figure with the 12hp from your intake, the 10hp from Randy on the Miltek exhaust, 6-8hp gain from the TB, the 20hp gain from the 19% pulley and the 25hp gains someone posted on the Unichip, that should get me another 75hp, calculate for the 20% drivetrain loss, which should bump me up to 90hp on top of the 163hp I have and I will be at 253hp. I have got to be getting near the sound barrier.

Keep up the good work on this. Any testing on the antimissle capabilities would be great. If you are looking for a donor car, I have an old Ford Pinto we could use. I also have a friend in the Michigan militia that has access to a Sidewinder. Just PM me.

 

i stand corrected on what is supersonic, what is close, and what is just barely. i've been schooled. Thank you very much :smile:

_________________
Roman S.

MaxVelocity.net

 

They tried to make one of the &quot;x planes&quot; out of carbon fiber. You know the joint operation fighter that they had a contest for. If I remember right, the plane had to be supersonic and be able to take off and land vertically. I forget what company tried to do it, but they had a design that would incorporate the back of the fighter as carbon fiber. They ran with the idea but could not make it work. The carbon fiber would not set correctly.

Anyways, just a little piece of info I thought might help for the aircraft discussion.

One more question I have, and it may have been answered already, if the thermowhatever plastic is better at keeping heat away, then why not make a whole box lid instead of just the shield? That would make more sense to me, and the hood of the car gets pretty hot sometimes...

 

the F117A does have a CRUISE speed of 684 about ~80mph from going supersonic. Furthermore, this is DECLASSIFIED information(I'm sure it can go a lot faster than that and I understand why its true performance capability are a secret).
You gentlemen don't seem to be the kind that would stop based on what someone says but you still believe that just to prove me wrong, OK.... and in regards to the FA22 I didn't say anything about carbon making it achieve higher speed, I said that carbon was used for it's strength, light weight, and resistance to heat. The resin is what makes it strong yet makes it weak in other ways.

Trippy - The resin I use will stand up to 350*F, far more than what is needed be safe under the hood of your car.

I'll do your blow torch test on a sheet of carbon fiber not the intake because the resin(like mentioned earlier) that I use will not stand up to 2000*F+. I will film it and post the results on this thread. If the carbon gets damaged, I will pay you $100. If it does not get damaged, you buy one of my carbon fiber intakes and stop bashing... DEAL?








_________________
Roman S.

MaxVelocity.net

 

oh man... do we give this much crap to other dealers?

no wonder our vendors' list is so small...

oh what a trial the gauntlet of skepticm can be.

i think you've been doing a great job on answering the questions and being polite in the answers (in the face of slightly over-enthusiastic skeptics. I dont even know why you guys are heckling him over the carbon fiber thing. you know it kicks boot: can you make a heat shield out of silica based tiles? oh wait... can you? wait a minute, why would you? though if i were to base on car off of an ipod, i'm sure some apple freaks would go for the spaceshuttletile white.)
keep up the great work, it will all be over soon.

supersonic and subsonic... don't you guys know what a PM is? it's airplanes, not a mini that can hardly manage 130mph. though it DOES get much much better gas mileage.

 

&gt;&gt;oh man... do we give this much crap to other dealers?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;no wonder our vendors' list is so small...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;oh what a trial the gauntlet of skepticm can be.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;i think you've been doing a great job on answering the questions and being polite in the answers (in the face of slightly over-enthusiastic skeptics. I dont even know why you guys are heckling him over the carbon fiber thing. you know it kicks boot: can you make a heat shield out of silica based tiles? oh wait... can you? wait a minute, why would you? though if i were to base on car off of an ipod, i'm sure some apple freaks would go for the spaceshuttletile white.)
&gt;&gt;keep up the great work, it will all be over soon.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;supersonic and subsonic... don't you guys know what a PM is? it's airplanes, not a mini that can hardly manage 130mph. though it DOES get much much better gas mileage.

thanks Jinubob81! I don't mind, I know I'm the 'new guy' but I'm not trying to sell everyone on some great snake oil that will cure all ailments.
I'd like to do the torch to carbon test as I never even thought of doing it. Theoretically, it should not burn, but I may be unpleasantly surprised?

SOOOO....I regress my offered bet with Trippy (unless he wants to accept it) , and will do this test on Wednesday, get a video, and post the results regardless of outcome. I'll pick up a propane torch after work today.

Best wishes,
Roman

 

MaxVelocity,

I've been impressed by your willingness to answer questions and entertain other points of view ... especially on the CoBB of CF.

For some reason, questioning of vendors claims ruffles a few feathers around here, but I think this board is better as a result of such skepticism.

 

&gt;&gt;MaxVelocity,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I've been impressed by your willingness to answer questions and entertain other points of view ... especially on the CoBB of CF.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;For some reason, questioning of vendors claims ruffles a few feathers around here, but I think this board is better as a result of such skepticism.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;

Andy - I think this is what makes vendors design better products.

 

&gt;&gt;Andy - I think this is what makes vendors design better products.

The beer or the skepticism?

 

&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Andy - I think this is what makes vendors design better products.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;The beer or the skepticism? Ahhh, ahhhh, beer helps too !

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;They tried to make one of the &quot;x planes&quot; out of carbon fiber. You know the joint operation fighter that they had a contest for. If I remember right, the plane had to be supersonic and be able to take off and land vertically. I forget what company tried to do it, but they had a design that would incorporate the back of the fighter as carbon fiber. They ran with the idea but could not make it work. The carbon fiber would not set correctly.&quot;

I think you may be refering to the YF-22 and YF-23, which were both spectacularly successful aircraft, as well as being among the most expensive ever built. the handling characteristics of these two planes were both some of the best ever produced. It cost us taxpayers $680 million to build just the two of these prototypes. They were instrumental in laying the groundwork for both the F-22 and JSF geometries.

Anyone ever heard of the JSF project??? The F35? At the very least the wing cores are honeycomb cf composites. Well over mach 1.


)

-joe

ps Sorry if I got slightly off topic above.

 

I remember the military (all branches) was looking for a new figher jet which had to be able to go supersonic, take off like a Harrier(sp?) Jet (vertical), have a low radar sig, and a slew of other stuff. there were two companies that had a runoff Lockheed and Boeing(?). One of the manufacturers delayed the production of the prototype because they had a problem with getting the composite layed down just right.

I was into R/C as well.... my plane of choice was the T-34 Mentor ARF.

 

I'm building an Sukhoi SU-34 electric ducted fan right now. She's 6.5 feet long, composite balsa structure, and believe it or not, carbon fiber fan shrouds in the 'turbine' housing. Also, the fans themselves are cf. Both lightweight and resistant to warping at 27,000 rmp. Don't get offended by us. We're just sceptics by nature, I think. There have been so many bogus hp and torque figures floated our way that It's just difficult to believe anything anymore...

-joe

 

Hi Joe - I always liked the Sukhoi (forgot model) aerobatic plane. There are a lot of kits of this particular model out there (it's a tail dragger). After the last crash, I haven't had time to rebuild my T-34 but I hope to get back into the hobby sometime.

Tomorrow I'll do some BURNING on video, should be fun :smile:

 

How much is going to cost compared to these:
From GruppeM Air Intake £468.00/€702.00


and from K&amp;N, $983

Will we be getting any performance figures, from yours?
Thank you.

 

&gt;&gt;How much is going to cost compared to these:
&gt;&gt;

this just shows COBB = 1 / coefficient of form follows function