Can I still use a strut brace if I have the Alta CAI. The rubber on the housing would have to be cut to make room.. Is that right?...

 

Depending on the design of the brace, you'd probably have to cut the metal heat shield.

 

>>Can I still use a strut brace if I have the Alta CAI. The rubber on the housing would have to be cut to make room.. Is that right?...

I have BMP/Promini Struct brace with Alta CAI. Besides the rubber, the metal housing has to be trimmed with a dremel in order for BMP struct brace to fit. :smile:

_________________

 

I'm also installing a 15% pulley at the Dragon this week... Will I have to switch to the shark injectors too. Also what are the recommended camber settings for H sport springs and sway bar ?

 

Good Morning Andy.....

The question is ......why do you never answer a question when asked (probed)...it takes some
herculian efforts to get some answers out of you. While you expect straight and fast answers
from everybody else????

And why do you feel you have to "stick it" to me every chance you have?????

peter
Team M7

 

In order to feel the effect of the brace, one probably has to push the car to the extreme as the MINI's body integrity is already quite stiff. In any case, it looks nice under the bonnet. Bling! Bling!

 

Do you think you are sacrificing any of the induction qualities of the Alta by cutting the housing.... How do you reseal or is that much of a concern?

 

Yeh, you don't have to feel good, just have to look good......... You look mavvvvelous

 

M7 wrote:
Can you please provide me with some examples of your above statements?

I feel I am very timely about answering questions and completely understand when others take time to answer questions. Why do I espect "straight" answers? Well, crooked answers don't do anyone any good.

You may wish to look into psychological counseling if you feel that I or someone else has to ""stick it" to you every chance they have. Ask a question and you will get an answer. If you are asked a question, it is polite to provide an answer.

-Andy
Team Rational Thought

 

tjockey wrote:Well, the Alta doesn't seal particularly well anyway, so it's not as if you are damaging a perfect seal:



You could trim the metal, then re-edge it with weatherstripping to seal the airbox against your strut brace.

 

Hey, thanks for the prompt, straight answer.........

 

Having come from an A4 chassis VW (Jetta VR6) to a MINI, I'm always amused by the strut brace wars. Some VW guys will swear and declare that there is absolutely no benefit to be had by installing a strut tower brace on an A4 chassis car. The argument goes that the chassis is stiff enough, etc...

HOWEVER, should you decide to pop the hood on an Audi TT or an Audi S3 (also A4 chassis cars), you will find a factory fitted strut tower brace. Hmmm...

As for order of modification, I won't be much help. The only thing I've done so far is add a set of PIAA driving lights. I figured one of the best things I could do is to not destroy the car by hitting a deer on these dark Georgia back roads.

 

>>maxmini wrote: >>
>>Thanks for asking rather than ASSuming like your team leader. I had a Neuspeed front strut brace on my '97 GTI. I doubt it did much of anything (identical vehicle to the one tested in that old newsgroup post) but I read that post after installing it. And I'd already drilled holes in the strut towers and installed nutserts. So, I figured I may as well leave it in there. :smile:

andy@ross-tech.com
online

6th Gear
Posts: 1528
Oct 2002Posted: Apr 21, 2004 - 01:23 PM - SOONER -

Intake
Guages
V1
Short Shifter
Rear Sway Bar

- LATER -

Intercooler
Exhaust
Parcel tray
Rotors

- NEVER -

Pilo Ignition Kit
Upper Strut Brace
Plasma Booster

 

maxmini,

Please take the time to READ the question, not just my answer. The poster asked: "In what order would you put the above." Well, I put them into an order.

I am flattered that your team is devoting so much time to going back and forth with me, but I don't see your points.

maxmini wrote:
I added numbers above.

1) You can ASSume anything you want, but I never said that guy should or shouldn't put anything on his car in any particular order. Re-read (as often as you need to) the actual text and you'll see the poster asked what order I would put them in.

2) I don't recall ever recommending or non-recommending anything based on anything other than my own or reliable sources' testing. If you find an example that shows otherwise I'd love to see it.

3) What "VW test" are you referring to? As I said above, I installed a strut brace in my GTI. I did not do any testing on it and never claimed that I did. A person with an indentical car and tires did do testing on it.

4) I could care less if you or your team believe anything I write. Everyone here is presumably an adult who can make up his or her mind about what to believe and what not to believe. I encourage everyone to think for themselves and question everything, especially if it comes from a voice that is selling products or is sponsored by a company that is being discussed.

-Andy
Team "I Like the Taste of My Own Medicine"

 

Andy, your posts are usually very informative, and a good counterweight to the sometimes ovely hyped claims of the manufacturers and sellers of MINI products.

I have heard through PMs many times that people appreciate reading your posts (as well as mine)

Keep up the good work bringing forward the questions of demonstratable performance when claims are being made.

(on-topic alert!!!)
I am rigging up a measurement system that bolts to the strut towers and can measure and record the distance between the two towers very accurately. It's tough to clear all the stuff in the engine compartment AND the bonnet without ending up with a flimsy mount that won't stand up to the dynamic forces in a moving car. I need to leave room for an unmolested tower mount or I'll get complaints that the testing mechanica affected the mount performance. (See how careful we science guys are VS the marketing/sales/vendor guys?)

When I get the thing working, I'll shop around for some race-oriented MINI owners willing to perform the experiments on a track.

 

Trippy we were wondering where you were , nice to see you alive and well. Sounds like a plan for testing the strut tower brace. You don't really need to wait to take it to a track to get a feel for the change as I first noticed the differance in the canyons. Of course the track will be much more controlled but you should be able to get some testing done sooner. Nice to see you are actually going to test it on a mini cooper and not a GTI nudge nudge wink wink :smile:
Andy i have to run Ill get back to you tonight :smile:

Randy
team M7
non supplier of strut tower braces LOL

 

I want to interject for a second and revel in the fact that i actually created this post.

Ok, that's all.. please send all thanks as money orders or cashiers checks only.

 

quote maxmini:
>Are we to assume that when you say that you should NEVER buy something that it >does work ?

There are lots of things that work or don't work that I would recommend against buying (or fail to recommend.) No should/shouldn't does/doesn't, just recommendations.

In the context of a FSB, 'works' is subjective. If 'works' means your car feels better than without it, then it 'works' for you. As I read it, Andy didn't say one way or the other - just that he hadn't seen any empirical evidence that it reduces body flex or camber changes.

I don't understand all the ire and demanding he prove it doesn't 'work'. You have your recommendation (Yes), Andy has his (No). Dissenting opinions, imagine that!

I appreciate reading all the opinions, recommendations and experiences.

 

>>tjockey wrote:>>
>>Well, the Alta doesn't seal particularly well anyway, so it's not as if you are damaging a perfect seal:
>>You could trim the metal, then re-edge it with weatherstripping to seal the airbox against your strut brace.

Alta housing isn't a perfect seal like Andy indicated. Some weather stripping will work.

Here're some photos. :smile:

 

Eric welcome to the fun and festivities. What you have come across is just the very tip of the old ice burg. We have great fun with andy on here with his show me the numbers routine. He is always asking to see the numbers and if you can't produce them then it appears to be his opinion that the item in question must not be of any benefit at all, ala the Plasma Booster. Never mind that they have been sold to thousands of satisfied users over the years for other makes of cars and the parent company Ignition Solutions seems to be a viable brand even without the " numbers ". On a list of mods that fell under andrew's list were the pilo ignition , plasma booster and strut tower brace. As andy is such a stickler for testing and " numbers " I was just curious as to how he came to add the strut tower brace to his list of never buy items. What testing and numbers did he come up with to make that decision? Here was he had to say about that .
"What "VW test" are you referring to? As I said above, I installed a strut brace in my GTI. I did not do any testing on it and never claimed that I did. A person with an identical car and tires did do testing on it. "
So far it was based on the fact that he had one once upon a time on a GTI but didn't really test it actually . Now with that in depth of a testing procedure one might wonder what other items have been evaluated in such a manner . If it wasn't for the fact that andy demands cold hard facts on everything this would have died a long time ago. It is just funny as hell when the shoe is on the other foot. We are just wondering what caused andy to put a strut tower brace ( again we don't sell them ) on his NEVER buy list. We just want andy to show us the numbers for a change LOL .. Again welcome to thEe party Eric.Oh ya sdanaher you stay out of this, oh wait you did start this thread didn't you :smile: :smile:

 

>>Never mind that they have been sold to thousands of satisfied users over the years

Large groups of people can and will exercise their right to do stupid things. Not thinking for ones self often encourages this behavior.

I'm as guilty of this in one form or another as the next guy, and I'm not saying anything referenced in this thread is a waste of money. My point is that a little hype and a good sales pitch can sell just about anything.

 

I agree a good salesman will never go hungry :smile: My only reason for mentioning that that particualr company has many satisfied customers is that the technology for the item has been around for quite awhile and has proven itself to be worthy to some degree for a lot of other people .

 

>>I agree a good salesman will never go hungry :smile: My only reason for mentioning that that particualr company has many satisfied customers

In the case of the Direct Power System there were (and probably still are) plenty of satisfied customers.

>>is that the technology for the item has been around for quite awhile

Which technology? Seriously I have no idea how the thing works and would like to know.

>>has proven itself to be worthy to some degree for a lot of other people .

A guy in this thread found the Direct Power System worthy enough to quantify the gains it provided. The technology for a 20 amp fuse has been around for a while, and I think I understand it well enough to determine that the gains he observed are the result of of the placebo effect.

_________________

04 Blk/Blk/Anthraccite MCS

 

>>maxmini,
>>
>>Please take the time to READ the question, not just my answer. The poster asked: "In what order would you put the above." Well, I put them into an order.
>>
>>I am flattered that your team is devoting so much time to going back and forth with me, but I don't see your points.
>>
>>maxmini wrote:
>>>>
>>I added numbers above.
>>
>&gt You can ASSume anything you want, but I never said that guy should or shouldn't put anything on his car in any particular order. Re-read (as often as you need to) the actual text and you'll see the poster asked what order I would put them in.
>>Yes I see that you listed the strut tower brace under " NEVER " Why exactly did you do this please show US the numbers :smile:

>>2) I don't recall ever recommending or non-recommending anything based on anything other than my own or reliable sources' testing. If you find an example that shows otherwise I'd love to see it.
See above, you list the brace under NEVER. please show how you arrived at that " non-recommendation " :smile: :smile:
>>
>>3) What "VW test" are you referring to? As I said above, I installed a strut brace in my GTI. I did not do any testing on it and never claimed that I did. A person with an identical car and tires did do testing on it.
So your NEVER rating of a front strut tower brace for a MINI COOPER was based on third party info of a brace on a Volkswagen ? Tsk Tsk now that was not very scientific from what I can see . Please show how this helped you with your NEVER rating for a MINI COOPER .
>>
>>4) I could care less if you or your team believe anything I write. Everyone here is presumably an adult who can make up his or her mind about what to believe and what not to believe. I encourage everyone to think for themselves and question everything, especially if it comes from a voice that is selling products or is sponsored by a company that is being discussed.

The whole point of this little fun thread is to enforce the fact that people should make up their own mind and not believe everything they read on here no matter how expert and helpful they appear to be. It is good to question and think for yourself but if you dispute claims and demand answers be prepared to answer those same questions when you make a claim yourself . Your listing of that item under the NEVER buy category was a non recommendation. You can try to dodge that all you want but its there in black and white. Please tell us you did that with more than the great VW experiment as your base of knowledge? You don't want the rest of your recommendations to be looked at like this do you , or maby they should be ?

Well that is it for this installment of " As Andy Swings ", please tune in I am sure there will be more.

Randy
Team M7

>>


>>-Andy
>>Team "I Like the Taste of My Own Medicine"

 

I don't know if the FSB works or not, but IMO, it makes the engine look pretty damn nice