I am looking in purchasing the schrick Cam and a Performance head. I don’t know which company to purchase it from. The only 2 that I know that make the heads are Mini Mania and Mini Madness. The upgrades I already have are 15% pully, cold intake, Milteck Header, Borla Exhaust, M7 Booster and Shark ECU. To add to this list will be the throttle body purchase from Webb Works.

Can you please give me some direction and sold answers on which Performance Head I should go with? Thanks!

 

Call Randy at Webb Motorsports. He can give you the answers
720 841-1002
Regards,
Ric

 

I have a head as well as Pilo, Webbmotorsports, and several over the pond companies, from what i have seen there are little diffrences in the heads in performance, but there is some, the reason for that is the fact there is not much material to work with on the head, not enough room to make large improvements and it really boils down to the fact that everyone is pretty much gotten to the point that there is not more to get with out a complete redesiged (new cast) head....Hope this helps

 

If your going to do the head, go with a one that has the valves oversized. Newminisport has one and I think Pilo does too

 

mine and webbmotorsports also have larger valves,its pretty much common place that if someone is doing headwork the valves are changed(in the mini that is) otherwise very little gain is expected....

 

That statement is inaccurate. Talk to many of the others that are building cylinder heads, they are not getting an larger gains from the head that we do using stock valves. We had gained very respectable numbers in both HP and torque, and never replaced the valves. Talking to other people as well, they did not get any large gains either, but do it because that is what people expect "should" be done.

 

You are correct in that 10-15hp can be gained without valves, but personally i feel that is not a large gain, neither is the 10-15 some are getting with valves, but some are getting more than 10-15, but that does seem to be the average. If you are getting 10-15 with out valves what are you getting with? I have a customer who bought a head(not sure from who) and i will be testing in the next week or two. I plan to buy several other heads for testing as well.....there is no reason we cant get 30-40 hp from a head other than a possible casting limitation, i personally have not done a head yet, i have mine suppiled through variuos supplier upon customers request, from my measurements they are verey little diffrent...

 

A good think to think about when changing the head is wether you want to keep the oem cat, put a race cat, delete the cat and put straightpipe et...

There are heads that come with race cats, and others that you can weld or attach the oem or straightpipe, or race cat to...which do you want?

L

 

once you do have the modded head (and better ex valves are worth it), other breathing/fuel mods will start to pay off. I got a total +24hp and +13 ft-lbs torque by adding more fuel to deal with the better flowing throttle body, head, cam, header, cat train.

 

Where are the torque gains on these heads? I know I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a new head that only gives me increases from 6k to 7k RPM and looses torque at the low to mid RPM's compared to stock. Bigger is not always better.

 

Good question Super_MINI,

That's what I'd like to know. Can anybody answer this?

 

>>Where are the torque gains on these heads? I know I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a new head that only gives me increases from 6k to 7k RPM and looses torque at the low to mid RPM's compared to stock. Bigger is not always better.


Here is the Dyno Chart from our head work.



Cadman,

I'm not saying that more can't be had. I just don't think that it is going to be had from the vavle size. I feel that more can be had with ceramic coatings, and some further tweaking of the intake runners and such.

JLM did alot of other things, and made a bit more HP and about 1 ft lb extra torque, but that HP gain was from removing other problems with the restriction of the engine as well as the head.

 

Dan,

Could you list the differences in torque at 500 rpm intervals from 2500 through 5500 rpms?

Thanks

 

Of Course, thats what i was saying as well i dont believe much more is to be had without a redesigned head(new cast) larger valves do help but due to the nature of the ports that gain is minimal(10-20hp) especially exhaust, i am not claiming anybodys head to be shotty just BMW's i guess there is not enough there to work with to get real gains, either you run into water or oil passages, or bolt holes, etc etc, I might try and see what it would take to get a head casted i have never ventured into that arena myself but i know people with deeper pockets than i that have, so maybe i can get some insight, and if worthwhile venture there if i come into some money....it would like being edlebrock head's for a chevy kinda thing, i dont think it will be cheap....but not impossible....who knows without checking into it...

 

>>Dan,
>>
>>Could you list the differences in torque at 500 rpm intervals from 2500 through 5500 rpms?
>>
>>Thanks

I will do that some time over the weekend.

 

We are getting great CFM numbers with the new head, as well as respectable power numbers. As Dan said, the CFM between the stock valves and larger valves is minimal - 9 CFM or so on the exhaust side. If you are there, you may as well do it, and again, as Dan and I discussed, most folks investing the cash for the head want larger valves.

The peak gains are in the higher RPM range, however the head does make more power and torque throughout the entire RPM range. about 11 ft/lbs and 15 horsepower on a car with the right ECU tuning. If you throw on some other parts, I'm sure the gain could be in the same ballpark as jlm. We are also doing ported intercooler runners and intake manifolds, and with those, the gains are better.

I'll post the results of all of the testing in the Vendor Announcements as soon as I can. I have the flow charts (each head we are doing is flow benched) and dyno charts. The pricing is very competitive, and the heads can be done in different variations - ie with stock valves and cam, with larger valves and stock cam, and with larger valves and the Schrick cam. The whole monster head with the larger valves and Schrick cam is $1705. Without the cam it is $1305.

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

>>We are getting great CFM numbers with the new head, as well as respectable power numbers. As Dan said, the CFM between the stock valves and larger valves is minimal - 9 CFM or so on the exhaust side. If you are there, you may as well do it, and again, as Dan and I discussed, most folks investing the cash for the head want larger valves.
>>
>>The peak gains are in the higher RPM range, however the head does make more power and torque throughout the entire RPM range. about 11 ft/lbs and 15 horsepower on a car with the right ECU tuning. If you throw on some other parts, I'm sure the gain could be in the same ballpark as jlm. We are also doing ported intercooler runners and intake manifolds, and with those, the gains are better.
>>
>>I'll post the results of all of the testing in the Vendor Announcements as soon as I can. I have the flow charts (each head we are doing is flow benched) and dyno charts. The pricing is very competitive, and the heads can be done in different variations - ie with stock valves and cam, with larger valves and stock cam, and with larger valves and the Schrick cam. The whole monster head with the larger valves and Schrick cam is $1705. Without the cam it is $1305.
>>

Randy, I assume there is a core charge in that price? What about larger injectors?

Paul

 

Here is the Dyno Chart from our head work.



Torque
Stock Modified
2500 127 132
3000 137 145
3500 146 150
4000 149 152
4500 149 154
5000 147 156
5500 145 155
5700 144 155
6100 141 151

HP
Stock Modified
2500 60 63
3000 76 80
3500 94 100
4000 112 119
4500 125 135
5000 137 150
5500 151 164
5700 161 175
6100 165 178

_________________
Thanks,
Dan
Pilo Racing, LLC.

 

These numbers are with out any software tuning, or Headers. The only change is the Head.

 

Dan,

Can you check your torque numbers at 3,000 RPM? looks like 14ft/lbs of torque.

 

Thanks all for providing results and explanations, i.e., Dan, Randy, and caddman.
The chart shows gains all through the rpm range. The improved hp is mostly in the higher rpm's, but there is some substantive gains even as low as 3500 rpm's (+6 hp), with +10 hp at 4500 rpm's and +13 hp at 5000 rpm's. But the torque gains are what I'm mostly interested in, and that has a good increase down low, with a gain of +6 ft lbs at 3000 rpm's, +9 ft lbs at 5000, growing to +11 at 5700 rpm's. Overall quite good numbers for just one mod.

Of course this is on the supercharged S engine. The results will be different on a normally aspirated Cooper engine, which is what I have. But I'm very impressed, very impressed. I like it.

Thanks again.

 

>>Dan,
>>
>>Can you check your torque numbers at 3,000 RPM? looks like 14ft/lbs of torque. :smile:

 

Just for note, i am not to discredit anyone, by my comments, i am just saying the head unfortunatly in its initial design has limited us "hotrodders" to do much with it, which i am upset about but hey thats the way it goes sometimes, i am sure Pilo's and Randy's and my own for that matter do give improvement, but in my opinon are minimal compared to what should be able to get of of it, but we all are limited to BMW's intial design so there for our hands are tied, unitll someone breaks off a chunk of change to get a new head casted i think we are all pretty much at the limit of the gains possible, proof of that is the little gains by larger valves, the larger valves should give a large amount of gain but they dont due to poor head design.....A pat on the back to all who have tried, Randy, PIlo,Endyne, etc etc a little gain is better than no gain, but this is a expensive mod for relativly small gain, but for those of us who want it all, its worth it!!

 

caddman, given what you have said, would you say that is is reasonable for us to expect someone (tuner/vendor) to venture down this road (casting a new head)? I ask out of ignorance, not to be a wise ***.

My first inclination is to want to know what other like cars/engines have received such attention, and what were the gains. Maybe we can surmise from that information if the MINI is a likely candidate, and if so, would it really be worthwhile...

Such a cost/benefit analysis is important for us I suppose. As it stands now though, I'd be prepared to drop $1,700 for Randy's package to get those gains, but to do so knowing that a new head is possible in the forseeable future that would deliver substanially more, does cloud the picture at the time...

In summary, what other little 4 bangers got a new head, and what type of gains were had? Thanks.

_________________
2003 IB MCS

 

Honestly, i would see the mini not being a canidate, i wish it were, but probably not not cost effective enough, and example would be head companys(american equvilant) Edlebrock, Trick Flow, Air flow research, etc, etc they have recasted head for the ford and chevy V8's. What we need is someone in the race arena with deep pockets thatis able and willing to pay a huge amount of money for this, then we possibly could get them to go into productuion, it is a long shot....I dont think that it will happen any time soon so if you are thinking of a head from myself, Randy, Pilo, Madness etc etc, i would say go for it because it is more than likely all we will get....