Heh... true about the resale, Mitsu quality is indeed an oxymoron. One of the main reasons I no longer own one, nor am I likely to buy another.

As for the rest, I will not bother to continue the argument, I had just intended that anyone considering either car should have a realistic idea of their performance. Having driven both I have an actual objective idea of their performance, not just numbers bench racing.

 

I would say price is also a big consideration. The EVO is 50% more expensive than the Mini. (@$30,000 for an EVO, and @$20,000 for the Mini), base price without the options.

The EVO is a pretty cool car in a lot of areas. But for another $3,000 you can get the Mini to a fun state (not that it isn't already) and personalized for your use.

One thing that 2Cool hasn't brought up is that the Mini Cooper S is in the Sub Zero category on Top Gear, a spot that the EVO VIII does not hold. :smile:

But seriously, it is hard to say which one is better. You need to come up with a list of items you feel are important and then rank each car according to those and make your decision based off of that.

 

Not trying to defend M7 here, I agree with you (see my previous post), but let me get this right - Your telling us you got rid of an Evo and got an MCS? I don't see how that's very probable since the Evo just came out in North America in 03, but if you're for real then just get rid of the MCS, get another Evo and have fun.

 

what's so hard to believe? There are a fair number of MINI owners that purchased COOPERs only to turn around and sell them in short order when the COOPER S became available.

 

2Cool...I don't know man but I think it's a safe bet that M7 could make a little red wagon out perform an EVO with a little R&D...lol. Remember your talking to a man at the top of his game here,I can't think of any one else bringing this kind of cutting edge engineering for the Mini. Personally I don't give a rats *** if the EVO does or can be made to out perform a tuned S...it's looks like every other econobox on the road wih the differance being a peppy engine and AWD...The interior sucks almost as bad as the Subarus...sure in stock form either the EVO or STI will eat a S for lunch...but the Mini has a hell of alot more class and I'm sure Peters personal car will out perform the EVO,STI and probably a few other car costing 3 times as much.

 

Bought the Evo March 27th of 2003. Put 11K miles on it. Traded it for the MCS on Jan 15th. Pretty happy with the change, no plans to ever buy another Mitsu.

As for the rest, I am playing devil's advocate here. I know what the Evo is capable of, and it will take more money than the price difference between the two cars new to make the MCS a better handling/braking/accelerating car.

However; the MCS has more style points than the Evo can dream about having. Plus its actually fairly dated technology, drivetrain-wise. Thats why Mitsu has pulled out of the US rally series, as well as totally revamping their WRC program. Its time for a new platform, we in the US only caught the tail end of the Evo ride to fame.

So don't think I am arguing for the Evo side, after all I just jumped ship from them to the Mini. However; you shouldn't think that if you are beside an Evo on a mountain road that will be able to lose him in the twisties... it aint gonna happen. You will definitely end up with more people checking out your car at any light or stop though, as the majority see the Evo as just another ricer with a wing and boy-racer intent. So my dollars (literally) are on the Mini for happy driving.

 

Too bad they don't sell the Evo in the States. What we get is a Mitsu 'Evolution' fun, but a whole nother ball of wax from the actual Evo.

 

Okay here is some numbers for yeah! In C&D Sept. Issue "Fourgasm!"

MCS with claimed 245 HP, Road Course Time-65.7sec., Braking-130mph-0 =534 ft.


Mits.Lancer Evo-341 HP, Road Course Time-65.2sec, Braking-130mph-0 =561ft.


And a second Evo- 310 HP, Road Course Time-66.3, Braking--130mph-0 =527ft.

Now you have some actual numbers to base your arguments

 

2Cool,

The 245hp Mini was from Mini Madness and the conversions cost right around $10,000, which is the price difference between the Mini and the EVO. The Mini-Madness Mini gave a good run against the modified EVOs and beat them in some of the categories. It would have beat a stock EVO in all of the categories for sure. So I don't think it is so easy to say that it would take more than the price difference between the EVO and the Mini to make it competitive.

 

Heh... figure in the acceleration portion too please, thats why I mentioned it. Its good to be proud of your car, but also you need to be objective and appreciate the holistic appeal, not just performance numbers. Otherwise we will all be in SRT4s and boasting about our cheap quarter mile times, eh?

 

If you analize the numbers, think about this; How much faster would the MCS have been around the corners to make up for the Acceleration/HP advantage of the EVO down the straights..... MCS must corner alot faster because the EVO would have blasted from corner to corner and if you saw the layout of the track their was alot of straightaways. I think that more than supports M7's claim to handle better in the twisties...

Also, it's rediculous to compare one car to another "In the twisties" on the street. You can't really say "I beat an EVO with my MCS". You really beat the other driver not the car. Anyone with Autox or track time in their car could probably beat another driver who has not, especially in the twisties where it's dangerous to exceed the limits of the car and an inexperienced "Smart" driver will be driving well below those limits.

 

Ah, but this never started off as a "stock Evo vs. M7" discussion. It began when M7 stated that you, as in anyone with an MCS, could take an Evo in the twisties. That is patently a mis-statement. Not even factoring in driver, stock to stock the Evo is more capable. Which it should be considering the price difference. I never claimed you could not make the MCS handle better... with money and determination you can make any car go as fast and handle as well as you want to. The "my winkie is bigger than yours" argument was just a segue from the main discussion.

Of course most of this thread has been like that, and I do apologize to ubercooper for that detour.

 

2Cool,

I agree with you. The Stock EVO will beat the Mini in acceleration. No question there. In fact the stock EVO will probably beat a fairly modified Mini in acceleration. I even agree with you on a stock EVO beating a stock Mini in cornering. I think the only thing we are saying is that a Mini modified to the state that M7 has can most likely beat an EVO. And people who have driven with Peter and seen his car against other cars agrees. You can complain about Peter's statements, but no one who knows Peter or has even seen Peter disagrees with Peter's statement. All the people who are disagreeing with Peter have never met him or gone riding with him.

All of this was to indicate to ubercooper that with some small modifications you can have handling performance exceeding the EVO at a cheaper overall cost with better style. I know that it has gotten into an M7 discussion again. But the original question was should he go with a modded Mini or a Stock EVO. And based off of Car and Driver and M7 who has a well modified car for handling, I think the consensus is that the modded Mini may be a little better than the EVO for what ubercooper is looking for.

 

In the argument of the EVO vs MCS in the battle between the more capable car.. The two cars are complete opposites, oil and water.. I do feel like the MCS is a more promising platform however there is a boundry for power when you are talking about road racing. Cars with sickening amounts of HP might as well be trailor queens. Ive been told several times that the Mini has a better slolam time than any other production car. It seems a more acurate argument for a mini competitor would be an equally capable FWD like the ITR.

M7 knows his Stuff