I have done a lot of experimentation (along with Robert, my customer) with the MINI Cooper CVT. We have trodden a long road:

BMP Instake
Madness Big-Bore Throttle Body
SuperSprint Exhaust
Powerchip ECU
H-Sport Springs
Alta Rear Sway Bar
H-Sport Control Arms
17" Wheels and Yokohama ES100s
Schrick Stage 1 Camshaft
Milltek Stainless Header
Cooper S Valves
Ported/Polished Cylinder Head

Together, we have been challenged on this site to substantiate our claims for added horsepower of 50 over and above the 115 stock horsepower. We did not enter into this as a competition, merely sharing ideas which is what this site is about. We went about as far as we could, given the limitations of the engine and transmission, and we have a successful result, a 130mph plus Cooper.

If anyone has done the above mods or more, let's compare results. We'd love to talk to you!

Graham

 

Got any dyno sheets to see how much HP your cooper is REALLY making?

 

They have not dynoed that fast MC yet.

Got a question about the Powerchip ECU for the MC. How much does it cost from Webbmotorsports?
You mentioned 12 HP gain- if so that would beat just about everything for an MC. Why have we not heard anything about this ECU upgrade before?

How much was the supersprint exhaust for MC? About $1200 and how much power gain did you estimate it was worth?

Can you estimate what the value of the Cooper S valves are in parts and labor?

Would you say that the labor of what you listed was about 16 hours?

Would you say that the estimate on the cost of the ported/ polished heads was more than the Madness polished heads for $1879?

How did you remove the limiter and increase the top speed?

Thanks

 

GREAT GREAT Questions MiniHune!

That's pretty expensive...
just instal that M7 Turbo for less!

then upgrade from there!

-WCC

 

Hey mckinneymini,
Love this post, as we all know you did a terrific job of modding primeMINIster's CVT MC. As WCC asks, I would be interested in seeing your dyno results, and minihune has some good questions. Here's a few more if you would be so kind.

About the Webb Powerchip ECU, was that set up specifically just for the CVT?

About your ported and polished head, what is the difference between yours and the MINI Madness polished head -- in other words, is yours better? For example, did you do something more that they did not do? Could someone just get the Madness head and have what you have or does it need further work, or would it be better to start with the stock head and work with that?

What cam did you use, i.e., Schrick cam?

Does the car idle properly, start easily, and still have driveability in normal driving conditions?

Thanks.

 

>>Hey mckinneymini,
>>Love this post, as we all know you did a terrific job of modding primeMINIster's CVT MC. As WCC asks, I would be interested in seeing your dyno results, and minihune has some good questions. Here's a few more if you would be so kind.
>>
>>About the Webb Powerchip ECU, was that set up specifically just for the CVT?
>>
>>About your ported and polished head, what is the difference between yours and the MINI Madness polished head -- in other words, is yours better? For example, did you do something more that they did not do? Could someone just get the Madness head and have what you have or does it need further work, or would it be better to start with the stock head and work with that?
>>
>>What cam did you use, i.e., Schrick cam?

I've got a problem that prevents me from doing justice to these questions, but I will. Right now, I'm trying to put on all these Christmas presents that y'all have gotten! Springs, sway bars etc! MINI tuning is a hot item right now.

Let's see. I owe several of you responses via PMs and I will get to them, but later.

Graham
>>
>>Does the car idle properly, start easily, and still have driveability in normal driving conditions?
>>
>>Thanks.

 

I talked to Randy at Webbmotorsports about the powerchip ECU upgrade for the MC- it costs $490 and has been available but is not listed. Randy did not play a role in developing the software for that version unlike the version for the MCS.

The estimated gains of 5-6 HP and 4 ft lbs of Torque are more modest than that found in the MCS version. It's hard to make big improvements for the MC because the ECU already has been optimized by MINI from that found in the MINI ONE to the MC.

I don't know if the ECU for the MC is any more optimized for the CVT than for the 5 speed version. The method of installation is the same for MC and MCS.

 

McKinneymini,
I've got a 5spd but I'm interested in several of the modifications you mentioned. Concerning the cam, can you tell us what the timing, lift & duration are for the Shrick MC cam versus the OEM cam? Also wondering if you dialed it in using the timing Schrick recommended or if you tried advancing or retarding the timing to pick up low-end/increase top end. Based on your experience, is varying the cam timing even possible with the stock timing gear? Does the Shrick cam use the stock valve springs & if so do they need shimming to increase the seat pressure? Any clearancing needed? Can you elaborate on it's power characteristics vs the stock cam & if you think it might be difficult to pass smog tests with the cam?

On the cylinder head, would you be willing go into more detail? Were the S-type valves used on both intake & exhaust side & what was the increase in diameter over the stock MC size? Are the S-type valves the same shape(profile) as the MC, the same material & was the combustion chamber modified in any way to accomodate the larger diameter? (not talking about seat work) What port flow work was done, ie; any major re-contouring or re-sizing of the ports or just clean up & matching to the manifolds?
Was there anything about the OEM head that immediately stood out to be a glaring weak point that needed improvement? Lastly, what mods other than the TB were done on the intake tract?
Have I hit 20 questions yet? :smile: I don't expect you to reveal all details of your hard-won tuning research but please answer as many questions as you can!
thanks in advance
:smile:

 

Sorry, One more question! Was there testing done before & after to measure the improvement in the car's acceleration?
thanks again

 

Thanks minihune for explaining the ECU better. As the CVT needs more torque than the 5-speed, I have been hoping someone would optimize it for the CVT, but probably (obviously) have not. Hopefully some day, but I won't hold my breath.

mckinneymini,
Sorry for the bad questions, as I only know enough to be dangerous, but I really want to learn more about your work. I see now you mentioned you had the Schrick cam, but I have heard that performance cams affect driveability, so I am interested in your comments on that. About your head work, I was curious about any differences between your work and the Madness head (if you know anything about that head). Because if I wanted to do similar head work, would I be better off to buy the Madness head or find a shop to do what you have done? Thanks for talking down to my level.

Also, primeMINIster has said that ya'll are through adding any more mods, due to the limitations of the MC engine internals (as MCS is stouter, etc) and the CVT. What is your opinion (do you think it is a good idea) -- if someone did all the mods you have done to a CVT MC -- and then to additionally add lightweight pistons, light rods, and stouter crank? I know no one right now makes light pistons or rods for the MC, but hopefully someone will later. They are doing wonders with piston design these days. And then someone could also use the forged crank from the MCS. With these further additions, the engine should be more rugged, and if the CVT holds up it would add even more performance. What is your opinion of adding the pistons, rods, and crank? Appreciate it.

 

Hey SlidewaysMini,
Welcome to this thread. It actually started under the thread labeled, Turbo CVT, and Robert (primeMINIster) and Graham (mckinneymini -- he did the work on Robert's MC) provided a web site that has pictures of some of their work, including the heads. Here's an excerpt:

Also, I thought everyone would like to see the difference in the Cooper cylinder head before and after.

Please click on this link:
http://www.mev.cc

Click on MINI Cooper. Then choose the two links entitled MINI Cooper cylinder head and Porting the MINI Cooper cylinder head.

--Robert

 

Well here I am back from another full day of MINI modding. I think most of the questions surround the head and the cam. But just to get one thing out of the way first. The Madness throttle body is 58 mm as compared to 53 for stock on the MC. That is similar to the increase that was done on the MCS (57 stock and 61 - 64mm depending if you go with Randy's or MINI Madness in that order).

Now the Schrick cam for the Cooper has both more overlap and more lift. We did not need different valve springs or timing or anything else. The cam works great with the factory settings and I would not recommend being off from that. The car has great tractability and has no signs of a lumpy idle. Just put it in! About two hours needed.

The headwork was done by a local specialist who previously tuned Alfa Romeos. The ports were enlarged and polished and all that rough casting material was removed from around the valve guides, smoothing the airflow. Nothing other than polishing was done to the chambers so that we could retain compression ratios.

The 'S' valves were installled into the factory seats and pressure tested. They are therefore the same size but have more streamlined stems and are of superior material. They also cost $400 a set!

Let's see what else. OK if you are going to have better breathing, then you had better be able to discharge the gases. In our case we chose the Milltek header which is a NICE piece and the Supersprint exhaust. Now you can feel the gases belting out the tailpipe from 10 feet away!

May I say that the owner of this car REALLY wanted the lead car from the Italian Job (it's Indy Blue with white stripes and a sunroof) and needed someone like "Wrench" to create that "sweet ride". I think we did that.

Graham

_________________
'03 MCS, Madness Intake, Rear Sway Bar, Control Arms, H-Sports, Quicksilver Catback, Alta Pulley, Powerchip ECU, Big Bore Throttle Body, Nology Wires with Iridium Spark Plugs, Rogue Short Shifter with UUC Shift ****, Passport SR7 radar/laser jammers

 

Graham,
Thanks very much for the details. And the cost approx?

What it worth the effort? How does it compare to a stock MCS?

Nice job. That is a super MC.

 

Graham, you said it just right: "a sweet ride" :smile: and that it is!!!

Was it worth the effort? Absolutely!!! It's kind a like the MasterCard commercial where they list the prices of various things, and then at the end the last item reads: PRICELESS! It's like that!

Cost? Honestly, I really don't know. I would have to check the receipts. I'm reluctant to throw a number out, because we performed all the mods one piece at a time. This was at my request, because I wanted to feel and understand the difference to the performance and handling of the car! If I gave you my total cost, it would be inflated. It would probably be just as easy to check the various web sites for the part prices and estimate the labor time. When one does this, it would probably be in the ballpark.

Compared to a stock MCS? Well, that was one of the goals from the very beginning. Bringing an automatic as close as possible to that of the power of the S without hurting the car. Factoring the limitations of an automatic, I think we have certainly accomplished that as best we can! I'm certainly happy with the results. I can't wait to dyno the car.

Remember I'm the lazy driver who likes convenience. Juggling a diet coke and cell phone with a stick shift and clutch is not particularly convenient or appealing to me especially when there's not a spare tire! The world would definitely be a boring place if everyone was wired the same!

--Robert

 

Robert,
thanks for the excellent link.

Graham,
Thanks for the additional information. I don't doubt the cam grind is good, but was hoping we could get some hard specs concerning the stock versus Shrick cam. If you happen across the info perhaps you could post it or PM me. There are a few MC owners who are interested in the details, especially with other cams starting to be offered. I'm guessing the cam installation must be fairly straight forward at two hours.
Sounds like you've put together a nice combination of mods. If your cylinder head guy cut his teeth making Alfa 2000 DOHC heads burn better & modding that funky SPICA mechanical fuel injection, he gets my respect!

I'm really curious as to what makes those S-valves worth $50 a pop

 

[qoute]Turbo CVT? No way! I would have never learned anything about a car! It seems to me that anyone can throw a turbo on a car for immediate results. I'm sure it would be cheaper! I prefer naturally aspirated cars over forced induction. Other folks are different; and that's what makes the MINI world a great place to "Motor On"! [/quote]

I think that if it was as easy to "throw" a turbo into a MINI this would have been done and would be common.
Seems to me, that it is not easy to "throw" a turbo in a MINI.

I'm still waiting to see numbers and results to back up your claims.

I will still wager that you have very mediocre to small gains, maybe even negative gains.


Enough Tall Tales - We're ready to see the facts.

- WCC

 

To WestCoastCoopers:

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry that you are so cynical about my car.

Obviously, you must have had a bad experience with something. Would you mind sharing with us what you have done. I would like to know what kind of MINI you own, what mods you have performed, and if so have you had it dyno'd. This might help explain your tone in your posts, and what I might expect when I dyno the car!

Sorry about the turbo comment!!! I certainly do not mean to offend! Turbo is just not in the direction my interests. And that's OK. Different strokes for different folks! I am looking forward to all the various turbo projects in the market. It will certainly be fun to follow.

--Robert

 

Hey Robert,

I think when you post your dyno results, everyone can quantify your improvements. I'm really impressed with your car. I think either your route to performance or a turbo seem like the best two options for CVT MCs. I suspect that both are good options and should each have their plusses and minuses -- it's just that perhaps no one knows exactly what those are yet.

I have a question that I am dying to know. And this is one of the most important things I am concerned about when I get around to adding more mods to my CVT MC. Did you lose any off the line throttle response with your upgrades? For example, when you are at a standstill and give the car the gas, does it hesitate more than normal (i.e., more than it did before the mods) -- of course there will be some hesitation due to having the CVT as all automatics have a hesitation. But is that hesitation more now than it was before.

Thanks Robert, and keep motoring on!

 

Jazmini,

You know, I really don't know the answer to that question. There is definitely a bog or hesitation for a moment. It seems to me that when I placed the first engine mod (BMP Intake) on the car, I remember thinking to myself that it seemed like a lot of noise and a slight more hestitation before taking off. Quite frankly I was a little disappointed. It appears though that the CAM and ECU have greatly helped that issue.

When WestCoastCooper posted the comment about mediocre to negative gains with all these mods, a question was raised in my mind about a dyno on an automatic. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding on a dyno is that the car is measured in the gear that produces a close 1:1 ratio. In a standard I think that can be easily found. It's usually 3rd or 4th gear if I'm not mistaken. In a CVT transmission, the ECU completely controls the transmission and all the shift points. That would mean that in the Drive, Sport Drive, and CVT modes (all 6) the car automaticaly shifts when programmed. I like to drive in the CVT mode, but when I start approaching the magic RPM number the car will completely overide my decision and start shifting automatically. I do not know of a way to overide that issue in a Cooper CVT. I'm wondering if the car can be accurately dyno'd?

Have you heard of anyone performing a dyno on a CVT. I would be very interested in knowing how they compensated for the automatic shifting.

--Robert

_________________
the primeMINIster
2003 IB/MC CVT
Bonnet Stripes and Rally Lights

 

C'mon, all --> let's not take modding too seriously. Maybe primeMINIster's hp account wasn't the most accurate. Then again, maybe it was. He simply stated what he thought it was/is. Regardless, he thoroughly enjoyed the process & that's what it's all about. There was no second-hand smoke blowing in anyone's direction.

 

Good points erik808,
Robert's happy with it all and that's what counts.

Robert,
I'm glad to hear it was only a slight hesitation with the intake. You would think that the intake would help over the full RPM range. Although some have said that any gains from an intake are minimal, since the MINI is well tuned already. With all the other mods you made, you probably need the extra air coming into the engine to get the full potential of the other mods. I would feel that you made a good decision on that. Although, that's easy to change if you wanted to experiment. If you still had the stock intake, you could just add a drop in filter that would be less restrictive.

I had the MINI-Madness intake put on and their exhaust too, but it was when I got the car new, and I don't know what it would have been like without them. I like them a lot though.

That's great that the throttle response was greatly improved with the cam and ECU. That's very good to know for all of us future modders out here!

One good guage of performance improvements is the seat of the pants feel, and your MINI sure has that.

As far as dyno runs, I wonder if the CVT MINI could be put on a dyno and just run wide open. That may be the equivalent of going top speed (probably over 130 mph for you). Someone will probably come on and tell me that would be a very bad thing -- heck I don't know. I thought that's what they did on dyno runs, anyway. Hopefully, someone will have some comments on the dyno for CVT. I need to know this too. Thanks for sharing all your efforts with us.

 

Really appreciate your kind words. It has been a real blast experimenting with the CVT!!!

--Robert

 

Your welcome Robert. You've got my respect. I can't wait to have my blast!

 

TGIF, jazmini & primeMINIster

 

Hey Eric,

Yea Yea its Friday.