so why the hell call it a 2% ive measured a lot of these i used to sell them

 

What Zippy says, 210 - 250 is really good... At 300hp there's other work you need to do... Haven't ever driven a 250 hp Mini, at over 210 there's a ton of torque steer - it's handelable ( is that a word?). At 300 the Mini should be a real handfull, more without a locker....Clutch? That aught to be a BIG.

I can't use what I have.... although 250 hp at the wheels would be the nuts....

 

From what I understand Way sells both a standard ATI and an oversized ATI that is a custom sku/part that only he sells made for him and only him by ATI....I don't dispute you have sold/installed/measured them (from other makers), but not the ones from Way...and guys with a 15% and a overdrive pulley seem to have way fewer issues than guys running a 19% and about the same performance as a 17....

 

almost all the engines can stock hold 18psi pf boost. a turbo setup will get you more power as with our chargers they are not very thermal efficient and generate a lot of heat. I'm guessing that i could get the same or more power out of a turbo with 8-10 psi as I'm getting right now with my charger putting out 15.3 lbs.
You will definately need a new clutch and probably a flywheel (if you want that much power, youl like it and probably need it) so thats going to be
$1000
most restrictive part in any car is air flow.. so bv head, nother 2 grand, exhaust 1.5grand (unless you can weld and have a pipe bender) intake 250, injectors 300, tune 450, cam 450, suspension and brakes to handle it 3000+, wheels 1.5k

and thats jsut the basics for $10950+
you have a lot more on top of that + whatever turbo or sc conversion you want.
RMW can do a 2.0L stoker kit for i think somewhere in the 10k region... but its not for the faint hearted. It runs like a race car.. rougher than normal.. but Uber fast.

you've got to pay to play

 

Actually, I win, because I will remember the correction when I give future advice.

 

thats because the ATI is different its either a 1% or a 1.45% ish and theres the custom way one whalen had made too

the ATI is the only one i would use too as it is dampened, ive seen the tech papers from ricardo who developed the supercharged mini engine and their reasons for a dampened and balanced CP

 

The whole "2% isn't really 2%" thing comes up every couple years it seems so i am here to put an end to the madness!

The best way to think of this is using the rank pulley to SC pulley ratio, meaning how many times does the SC pulley spin compared to the crank pulley.
In a typical 15% SC Pulley setup the ratio is 2.495 times. Meaning the SC pulley spins 2.5 times the speed of the crank pulley.
In a typical 17% SC Pulley setup the ratio is 2.545 times.
In a typical 19% SC Pulley setup the ratio is 2.616 times.

If you take a normal crank pulley and make it 2% larger in diameter, the 2% and 15% SC combo becomes more like 2.545 ratio. So slightly under the normal 17% pulley. We took this one step further and made the crank pulley a little bit bigger than 2%. So if you buy an ALTA 2% crank pulley and you have a 15% SC pulley the ratio is 2.55. While still not exactly 17% overall, it is good enough for us to say you have a 17% overall. We have had this done for about 6 years now and it makes it a lot easier to just say this is a 17% under drive setup. Instead we would be saying "Well really if you do a 2% crank pulley and a 15% SC pulley its not 17%, but we just call it that because its close enough."

We do not sell it anymore. We found that the 15% pulley out sells the 17% about 5-1, and most of those customers we sold them to, already had a 15% pulley. So since the customers were looking at spending money anyway, we decided to push the 2% crank pulley. Not only would this get customers the 17% they were looking for but also it would add some HP and some response do to the removal of 5 lbs off the crank.

Bummer, i guess we didn't jump in quick enough. Maybe next time we can answer your question quicker and get you into an ALTA part.

Really?

The discussion about removing the harmonic dampener (not balancer) is another big discussion that comes up time to time. For us its really simple. Ask the question, has there been engine failures, or bearing failures with thousands of our (not forgetting to mention other brands) crank pulleys out there being used. We get the answer back, NO. The argument about the vibrations being damaging is true for some cars and not for others. We know Mini has a specific frequency it is dampening (410-450hz) but it doens't really matter.

So we know the ALTA 0% Crank pulley makes about 5WHP with the removal of 4.8lbs. Why would you buy a dampened ATI pulley that costs 3 times as much, and weighs .2lbs more (yes not lighter than stock like some sell it) than the OEM part. It doesn't make more power. If you are buying a crank pulley for power, you buy the 2% larger or you buy it because its lighter. The other guys saying how an undampened pulley is really bad simply have no data to back it up. Our testing and now 7 years in operation with it shows that the Mini engine is ok with no dampener.

The additional speed from the alternator that a 2% crank pulley gives you is very minimal. Using the basic formula of its spinning 2% more is good enough here. At redline it only spins the alternator 130rpm. That is really nothing. In fact our 5% bigger ALTA-Nator pulley really didn't do much in the way of measurable HP. (This is partially why we stopped selling it) And if the 5% decrease in speed didn't do anything measureable whats 2% more from a 2% crank pulley.

The other added benefit you mentioned is the belt. The 15% and 2% combo does have better belt wrap and has better luck, NOT slipping. In those areas with hot climates, this is a good idea!

Hopefully this helps shed some light on things and while i know we lost out on getting the OP taken care of, maybe some of the on lookers will be a little more educated in the crank pulley and how the % all add up.

Give us a ring or email if you have any questions!

 

I didn't want to discredit the ATI part, and after i re-read it, it may have come off that way. I think the ATI part has a place in the market for those who want a 2% larger pulley but want to keep a dampener. Here at ALTA, we cater to the customers that are ok with no dampener, based on our years of selling the part with no engine failures.

 

I may not agree on all counts, but thanks for the info!! Lots of good points!!

 

Great we have em ready to ship.

Also some FYI about the ATI damper. The one listed as OEM is actually almost .80% overdrive, most other people just call it 1% overdrive. Then we offer the 2% overdrive version that is actually made to be 2% larger than the stock pulley, we could make it larger but more boost isn't necessary. Or if you did want it you could just go with a 17% pulley and the oversized ATI damper.

 

zippy, stevecars and soccerbummer.. thanks for all your help so far.. im thinking ill start with getting a clutch and flywheel.. then look into heads injectors and cams.. as far a supercharger or turbo.. not sure what one to go with... now would i have to replace this supercharger thats on it now or could i just change the pulleys?

 

The size of the supercharger is you limiting factor...it starts to make too much heat at higher psi's....you can do 250 with the stock sc and pulley and a head....but for much more safely on pump gas, you will need more air, and less heat.... There was a few custom sc installs around...you will need a electric waterpump too if you go this route .... And likely an underdrive pulley so you don't make too much air for our small displacement motors. Installed a Turbo is a hole new can of worms...the computer doesn't like the bigger drops at idle from a turbo...so it is usually run in a daisy chain with the sc to allow you to keep the stock computer....big bucks, big downtime, and oftern not a lot of relilibility in the long term...but fun.
For what you want, above 210, you will likely need a ported head and the can....heads run $2500 or so...but that will vault you from the 200ish bolt on mini s (very common, no headwork or cam needed for most) to the land of "holy crap fast"...you will need big injectors...and a custom tune....so it is best to do some things at one time.
I can't say I have built one like this...but from combining the threads, etc from other folks, it should be a fun. The costs are pretty low till you need the head...can be done incrementaly till the cam...then the tune and injectors should be done to get the hp out and optmize it. Many folks run methonol injection kits with great luck to get more power on pumpgas...and some run 2 tunes...one withbmethonal on, one without.
A good mini shop will be a great rescource in a job like this....depending on where you live, RMW (west coast), Helix (Philly), or WayMototWork (ATL), Detroit Tuned (michigan) are all great places to use!!

 

I am not really trying to stir things up......really...

Have you actually measured the size of the ATI crank pulley and compared it to stock? I say this because the ATI site says 5.5" and this is the OD the crank pulley, not the OD of the ribbed part. The ATI part should measure (Rib OD using the .160" difference i have on another ATI pulley on my desk) 5.34". The stock pulley measures 5.566" on the OD and measure to the tips of the belt ribs i get 5.46". So actually the ATI stock pulley is SMALLER than stock, not 1% larger.

Then if they make a 2% larger pulley based off the 5.5"OD, the OD the ribbed area is going to be 5.45" which is still slightly smaller than the OEM part.

In all my calculations i am using the tips of the ribs not the OD with the flange to keep things consistent. And the only variable is my ATI dampener i am basing the OD verus the rib OD from is not a Mini pulley. But this spec looks to be the same on all their parts.

I now see you have removed the weight spec of the ATI part from your site. I also read that ATI was to blame for this mis-information not you, which my above post sounded like it was you slighting your customers. Sorry for that Way Motor Works!

I keep saying i am not trying to stir things up, but this all came about because we thought we might want to sell the ATI part to help capture the customer base that IS worried about removing their dampener. Then i started digging into this part more and more.

 

your the ones selling a alloy damper with no dampening when ive read the tech papers from ricardo who developed the engine for the cooper S stating why they used a dampened pulley, personally id trust and engine builder like ricardo over a 'tuner'

 

We ARE the ones selling the non-dampened parts. We are perfectly fine selling them and your comment doesn't scare us from making them. They work, people buy them and they don't cause problems. 6 years of selling them with no failures of pumps or bearings has shown this. There are plenty of people with 100K on their Mini using them.

All I was trying to say, we wanted to sell these ATI dampened pulleys along side ours (because of people that are concerned like you) and i discovered this mis-information. I wasn't tyring to argue the huge debate about dampeners. But since you mentioned it...

The post i remember from the Chrysler Engineer, stated that all Tritec engine testing was done on a non dampened pulley, and found no issues with it with 100,000 miles of test. No bearing wear, no nothing. They still said it was a good idea to use one because of all the reasons mentioned all over the place.

Its really simple, either you are ok with the buying one or you are not.

 

Thanks for the info zippy. I'm looking at the "Jesus" head right now.. Looks like will be the one i will get.. Im really hoping to get close to 300 when I'm done. My buddy has a turboed civic. Im tired of hearing about it.. Lol. Wanna show him up... What brand of injectors and cams, clutch etc.. What brands are good?.. I've been looking at all kinds here and there on the web.. Can you run a type of intercooler with a supercharger to help with the heat. Sounds like i want to stay with a supercharger if possible...

 

With injectors, buy quality....not redrilled crap on line...
Do a few searches, read and learn a ton... If you are leaning forwards that head, check with Jan at RMW...he is rumored to have a new SC comming soon....
Please remember, a MINI is a car built for the twisties, not the stright line...the Honda may be fast, but it will never take turns like a Mini...and will never look as good IMO.

 

Jeff @ ALTA2... thanks for providing detailed explanations on the crank pulley diameters. I was beginning to second-guess myself on the % differences.

james_f, your friend is not the only one who's built engines. I've actually rebuilt a Chevrolet 385 stroker motor before, and I'm well aware of engine harmonics and dampening. I made the unfortunate mistake of using a 350 flexplate on the rear of the motor. With only 30 minutes of break-in time, we pulled the main caps back off to learn the bearings were already wearing unevenly. Lesson learned.

 

The head is BIG. This might be old school BUT it's where the power is.... think of it as the cake. Blower v Turbo.... for the type of driving I do - the blower wins. There's more potential with a turbo.... I'll let it go at that. Not suggesting I would or you should, but, I'd put my car up against any Civic, ANY - big letters, for the first 600 ft in a roll & go....
You can do all of what you want, IC, injectors, cam, clutch, header, exhaust, tune... & more. There're some very good vendors HERE that will answer any question you have. It's important that you have a plan that fits your "want - need" for this car.

 

I did get some info back from ATI on this, and they do say their Mini pulley is not measured like their others, and that their 5.5" pulley is 5.5" to the belt groove. So with that said their 1% and 2% are correct!!

Just thought you all would like to know! Why am i the one helping sell these, Way, i don't sells these....yet.

 

I actually talked on the phone to them this week about measuring this, and was gettting them to put it all in writing so I could post it. Rather than just posting what I originally said was correct via a phone conversation.

 

@ zippy and @ stevecars.. im thinking about lowering my standards, i am wonder if i will be happy with 250hp. sounds a little easier and alot cheaper for only 50hp less.. im think i will still get the head.. im saving for it now. it will be a little while for that.. also ya i think minis look so much better than hondas.. dont get me wrong i do like hondas/honda motors they make good cars. i think minis are much more classy.. this is my first mini. i already like the handling in it stock.. just to slow.. lol
and steve i agree with you on the turbo part.. turbo is endless power.. i also agree with the supercharger part. i like driving the supercharger better.. more torque at lower end, flattens out on top end.. but i like driving with the lower end torque so im thinking ill stay with sc

 

Thumper heads/cams have earned a very good reputation in daily drivers.... RMW's products are well liked too....IMO he does the best MINI tunes...I just got mined done...much smoother, better running now!!
I'm thinking the instant power of a SC will make you Honda buddy drool if you get a pulley, and take him on an auto-x course....not waiting for spool up !
Since you will be buying a bunch of parts, plan carefully, so even if the parts go on incrementally, you don't have to re-buy anything (like skip JCW injectors for your plans...go stright to 500 or 550's to be installed just before your first tune). You may want to call a vendor, and devolp a plan..say you want 250...and may want to build for more later...they have Lilly done it, and can outline a plan for you!!

 

selimsaim, when you go past 210 at the wheels things start to feel pretty darn good. If this is your DD, 250whp+ is a great goal and doable at a reasonable cost. With this kind of power, you need to think about how it will hook up....Torque steer.... It's a street car! Daily Driver... Ultimate "pick umm up quick"...