Anyone have any stock IAT data?

 

If I remember correctly, it is usually 10-18 degrees F above ambient at steady state, dry.

 

I have the Scangauge and a JCW Stage One kit airbox with a MINI Madness high flow air filter. At highway speeds my IAT runs either at ambient or 1-2 degrees above.

Under WOT AIT hits about 10-14 degrees above abmient. Once off the throttle and back to cruising speed AIT drops right back to ambient temperature or barely above ambient.

It has been stated that stock airboxes are making the best power when tuning. I have to agree with that. Although adding the high flow air filter did help.

Just my .02.

 

looking at these two only and may not be scientific, but certainly shows a trend that the Open Filter Intake Systems (ALTA, K&N, etc.) are nearly identical to the OEM box.

one could then conclude that the perception of a heat soak situation isn't true (other than in traffic) with the ALTA Intake. Thus the HP gains are coming from the reduction in restriction and filter location.

Just a thought to help summarize!

 

I appreciate the information scottab36, but just saying that you agree that the stock airbox makes better power than OEM when tuning isn't data. What I'm trying to do is get past the offhand remarks about it and actually see the deltas. By any chance do you have dynos you can share, or any other information? I'm not trying to call you out specifically - just questing for data.

 

I do not understand how you can reach that conclusion. If you go back and read the numbers you are referencing above you will see that the factory airbox runs cooler, stays cooler and cools down faster.

My set up settles at ambient or 1-2 degrees above ambient, not 5-7 degrees above ambient.

After WOT my AIT immediately goes back down to ambient temperature or just above (1-2 degrees above). It doesn't take take a few minutes to do this.

There is a spike in IAT when sitting in traffic but it quickly dissipates (less than a minute) once the vehicle starts moving again.

The benefit realized for the factory airbox is getting air supplied from outside the engine compartment. Cooler air makes better power.

Here are some DYNOS

First is JCW Stage One kit with factory airbox and filter (174WHP and 198W Trq)




Second DYNO is replacing the factory JCW cone filter with a MINI Madness High flow JCW air filter and reducing The rolling mass on the front axles by 5.5 pounds. (188.5WHP and 204 W Trq)








Third DYNO is after three treatments of Seafoam (a must for the R56). (199.4 WHP and 212W Trq)





Fourth DYNO sheet is after the RMW tune. (213.9 WHP 227W Trq)

 

Not in anyway trying to create a problem. But a small (2-3 deg) difference and a short period of time don't seem that out of line.

But keep in mind I am also witness to back to back testing on the dyno, on more than one car on more than one occasion and seeing the repeatable HP gains.

Also, the fresh air tubes still feed the cold air to the filter in the ALTA (and most other) setup. So when you are moving the air is certainly there.

Again, not poking, but we might be looking at what each deems to be a significant difference.

 

Still waiting to hear from ANY tuners on this topic. Now, I can be generous and assume that (1) they haven't seen it or (2) they are too busy to comment. But after a few more days I'll assume (3) they can't back up the claims that the OEM CAI gives better performance than the aftermarket ones.

Well?

 

I think since there is really only one (or a few at the least) tuner in the country tuning these cars, you may have better luck by PMing him and asking your question. Since in one thread alone there are over 100 people who need the tune I would say he is busy.

 

Nothing against Jan and RMW but there are other tuners tuning MINI's such as Mynes, DoS and WMW. I am sure there are more. Jan is just most vocal here and to his credit has the mind share of the members of this forum.

 

I think Chakra is refering to chip tuning.

Many seemed to have tried and have not been too reliable, such as Alta Unichip.

 

Does Mynes, DOS or WMW actively and successfully tune MINIS on a large scale? Does Mynes, DOS or WMW travel around the country to tune MINIs?
I knew Mynes tuned the R56 but had no DOS or WMW did custom DYNO tunes on the R56.

I gladly support any vendors which can provide quality products to the masses.

I don't feel Jan pushes his products here as much as he should or could.

It's his customers that spread the word of Jan and his successes.

 

As a matter of fact yes. They do. Why not call them up and talk to them about what they are doing?

 

Yup....that is a correct statement!

 

Sure we all spread the word. Myself included. I am happy with my RMW tune and the flash tool. But Jan/RMW does have the mind share of the members here on NAM.

 

Guys, let's not turn this into a flame war. There are multiple tuners for the R55/R56/R57, and that's a fact. They all do quite a bit of business, that's a fact. Beyond that, discussion of who tunes what has NO place in this thread.

Please stay on topic.

Chakraj, I think you have a good relationship with Jan - would you mind sending him a PM and asking him to respond? I would, but I don't think he really knows me, and I know he is quite busy (and thus may be reluctant to take much time to respond).

As for the other tuners, I'll send PM's to Way and Mynes to see if we can get some more feedback.

 

So, let me get this straight...Jan/RMW has stated, repeatedly, that the stock airbox/JCW airbox is the best airbox for the job. OK, understood. He's currently hard at work not only packaging his new MINI tuner for everyone that bought them, but continuing to travel the country, away from his home, business, family, etc. to custom tune MINIs and you want him to drop what he's doing, and pour over countless dynos and provide before and after proof that what he's saying is the truth...

Yeah, right. If I were him, I'd get right on that... I think he's a little more concerned about pleasing his paying customers that have spent almost $1K on more to get the best tune possible for their R56 MINI, then answer a post like this.

He's said it more than once, so 'nuff said for cryin' out loud...jeesh...

You're a "scientist", find a local dyno and see for yourself first hand, but it's gonna cost you. I before and after dyno just about every mod I do for every car I work on, so I'm happy personally knowing what I'm getting for my money...or not.

For a guy that wants help you got quite the attitude that's ringing loud and clear through your posts and responses to what you don't want to hear. If I were Jan you'd definitely be hearing something you wouldn't want to, and believe me, it wouldn't be any help to you at all...

 

I appreciate the helpful feedback. I've also heard from a tuner who says that several aftermarket CAI's give better performance than the stock following a tune, but I'm waiting on dynos from them too (and I'll ask permission to post them).

I realize what I'm asking for, and that the data may be slow in coming. I also realize I have bias as well, but I'm willing to change my mind when I see FACTS. I not afraid to state that I have a DoS CAI, and I'm pleased with the data that Clint has shared. But in the end, I'd love to see the basis for the stock vs. aftermarket issue - I still have my stock airbox...

My attitude has been nothing but polite, but firm, and will continue to be so.

 

Hi, I hope I do have a good relationship with Jan. He has always been responsive to me when I ask for help, but he is VERY busy and it is usually a one or two word answer like (here try this file and tell me how it works).

Once I emailed him and he didnt answer so I called him and he answered the phone at dinner with his familly, I asked a quick question and let him go.

I honestly dont think he has an ax to grind in this discusion anyway, he was never the one to make any claims. I had asked him in person "if I get a new, new, new intake which one do you recommend from your personal dyno experience" He said "go JCW or stay stock."

Now I am on my 4th intake and of all the ones I have tried the DOS is the best, but it is noisy, and once tuned I dont think it is any better than stock. (my opinion only)

The important part is ONCE TUNED. when you dyno tune your car you will get more from the stock intake, and it will be more comparible to an aftermarket one.

However if you are staying stock you will usually see a small gain (as indicated by the dyno sheets from ALTA and others) from a new intake.

Thats my soap box and Im standing on it.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that you're going to get very much more useful info out of this thread from tuners or vendors due to NAM's vendor policy.

As vendors we're not allowed to do anything that would even be mildly considered bashing/knocking/or slighting another vendor's products or services. Flaming or ill speak of another vendor gets you on the moderator poo list, sets the stage for getting banned, and does not make friends in the MINI tuning & aftermarket community.

As vendors its simply smart that we speak of the benefits of our own products and services do not bite the NAM hand.

I think that Mellanor should get some help within the NAM community to organize some folks and do the comparative testing he so desires.

Here's the test:
1) one car, stock tune.
2) multiple CAI's
3) multiple dyno runs
4) 0-60 runs +/- 0-to 100 runs

Equipment:
1) Dynapack or in-floor roller dyno
2) Dynolicious
3) Track Time

Borrow CAI's and airboxes from eachother, don't involve the vendors to keep it impartial, use an impartial dyno shop, and report back with your results. What do you think, Mellanor?

 

I had the NM Engineering intake on my JCW for a few months last year.

I liked it.

I drove another NAM members JCW with the DoS intake and liked it more. So I ordered from Clint and we installed it the next week.

I like the DoS intake much more than the NM intake. And I like it more for a number of reasons that have been discussed here before.

How about this. Instead of spending all this time and money to see which intake nets you more power and torque on our little turbo cars, go out and buy a used Porsche or better yet a 74 Chevy Nova SS.

What is the point of this thread???

Can we move on??

 

To be honest, it isn't just a personal quest for data, although my postings have been worded that way. When a statement is made that the stock airbox is better than aftermarket ones, it affects other NAM vendors who are marketing CAI's and have put R&D, marketing, etc $$ into their products. Making such a blanket statement without demonstrating the data backing it up ultimately does these vendors a disservice, and simultaneously *may* mislead the NAM community. The vendors themselves are in a tight spot in that if they defend themselves there is a perception of bias - they are caught in a catch-22.

I have a DoS CAI, so I certainly have a dog in this fight. I will schedule dyno time and do stock/aftermarket testing on my race-tuned R55 as a way to independently verify Clint's findings. I don't have any other CAI, so it will be up to others to supply their own data. In the end, I fear that any dyno testing will be inconclusive as it isn't a real world test of what a CAI is designed to do - it's sorta like timing the speed of sprinters but making them wear clogs. I would love to bring Clint's idea to fruition, so we'll see what response we get - my hopes aren't terribly high.

My intention was never to paint a target on anybody, but rather to see what information led to this issue. I work in a data-driven world - my apologies for bringing it to this forum.

 

That video is crap!! That guy driving the matte black mini doesn't know how to drive and they are both lying!! :P

I saw the thread then the youtube link and I was like ....hmm a wonder if this is the video I did back in the day.

Yeah the dynolicious is legit for sure.

Here's a clean link for those that can't handle the mess above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-DFbJQbeSY

-Gene

 

Mellanor: I absolutely did not mean to belittle your quest for data and I apologize if my last post left you with that impression. I too love data and information. I am a Systems Engineer at Cisco and mostly like to live in a black and white world.

I do not think we are going to get a straight answer from any one on this.

From my point of view I bought the NM intake because it looked cool and sounded pretty sweet. Did it make more power?? I don't know. It felt that way.

When I drove Tim's (09MellowJCW) car with the DoS intake, it seemed faster to me and more exciting to drive plus it sounded so much better than than NM intake.

I have many NM Engineering products installed on my car. I dealt with Jerry Tambayong directly and via email. He was great to work with.

And as we all now Clint is a stand up guy. I have traded emails and chatted on the phone with him about a few different things not specifically related to his intake.

I am very satisfied with the DoS intake. I feel that it makes the car more fun to drive and to me that is what counts most as I am not tracking or auto crossing the car. Not yet anyway.

 

I like Mellanors Idea, I cant wait to see what the actual dyno numbers are from one to another.

if I had known ahead of time about this I would have also brought my stock intake to the dyno with me, by now I can change intakes in 5 minutes.