Zippy, I did polish and dielectric #3, it was a bit brown (@ 8K mi). No difference. Tune was done with orig. 380s (it's a JCW). Problem came with my first drive of the car morning after it came off the trailer. Have not yet been to dealer for fear of losing tune completely, and not knowing yet what to tell them or not. I have done the fuel juggle also, all I got was some ping. Paul, I might try the map sensor soon if I can't get any other movement. Dealer item?

 

I have a similar problem, my car went to the dealer for major repairs and they flashed the tune. I spoke to Jan before the dealer flashed it and he said he could send the original file to me to re-install. Unfortunately, when I contacted him to do it he told me I needed to buy the flash tool $$$$.

I have no problem to pay a resonable fee to RMW for taking the time to re-send the original file, but I do not like to be forced to buy the expensive flash tool.

I would like to see other options like giving a deposit for the flash tool available to us loyal RMW customers.

Hernan

 

Oh well, I know mine was so bad (after cleaning it up 3 or 4 times) I needed a new Coil.......it was just a hunk of rust, and finely got too small for the plug wire to grip it securely....the OEM units use nickel plated steel...and the #3 always seem to go... the MSD's have more power, are cheaper, red, and use brass.....sorry it did not help.....

 

If you want to try a front ( manifold T-MAP ) I have 2 extras. Mr. Webster has a good suggestion. You might want to check the connector on that sensor, there could be a problem with it ( a rub thru from the harness on the radiator shroud )

AND I'm real close by

There is no real way the tune could just go away & the way you describe the symptoms there should be some codes ( there may be some pending codes that I can find on my scanner ). Shoot me a PM

 

It appears than RMW sells a propitiatory flash tool for 300.00....I'm sure you have seen this thread....

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-from-rmw.html


Any updates? swapping out the MAP...esp for free just to trouble shoot sounds like a good ida...but I would recommend having a good shop have it look at it before you spend much more time or money.

 

OK,updates...but let's pause for a mo. Here at what I hope is midway thru the process I wish to say, this thread has yielded already more than I thought I could expect, in interest, information and tips, shared experiences and offers of assistance, and I just want to say, Thank You! and I hope I can help out others in a similar way sometime. Now, I think the front T-MAP is a good candidate for investigation, soon as I can work out what's convenient I'll take my neighbor Stevecars up on that test. Zippy, I appreciate your continued interest and all the info. I think the flash tool you mention is the subject of this thread.
On the original front, I probably ought to keep my mouth shut. But- nah, when did that ever happen? ...I have another task; there was a reply from Jan, to the car's former owner asking for help on my behalf, suggesting that I check the fuel pressure, cold, then warm. He says he had to keep adding fuel during the tune, more than he feels he should have had to. So as soon as I find the end of the fuel rail and determine if my ancient gauge will work I'll send that info and hopefully keep moving forward! I will report, for those interested.

 

Probably a good time to change your fuel filter too Meacoopa. Then you know that won't be a limiting factor.

Jeremy

 

The port for the fuel rail is located on the drivers side, under the intercooler....has a black cap. The center of the rail has the fuel preassure regulator where the fuel line atatches to it.

 

Hello, friends, Here is the report. Hold on to your hats, while I take mine off...Jan's stab hit the mark. I had the fuel pressure tested. It's supposed to be 50.8 +/- 3 lbs. pressure, it was 40, temp didn't matter. So while I'm still trying to reconcile why it runs too rich at startup if there's insufficient delivery, and why it doesn't run out of gas on freeway @ high speed if pump is weak, it's great to have an identified problem to address. Maybe it's a defective pressure regulator, set too low.
So the tune must be overcompensated thru the whole range due to low fuel pressure. Ack.
Now for the fun part, getting it fixed @ dealer. Should be under warranty, OK. HOWEVER these are not parts they stock, and they will not order them without doing diagnosis themselves. Then they would order them and I would come back to have them installed. So what I'm hearing is if I want them to have those parts ready to install when I'm there I have to pay cash up front and own them, no returns. This policy REQUIRES me to make two trips, amounting to taking two days off of work, in effect forcing me to lose two days pay so they can save the cost of shipping the parts. There's customer-friendly for ya. How about you charge me a 'restocking fee' and cover your shipping, guys, I don't need gratuitous bleeding.
I wonder if I could get a volume test done whether that would identify if it's pump or regulator and I could buy the damn thing. Any opinions?

 

I guess you can go round and round....but it sounds like you know your car was tuned with a mechanical problem....net result....you cannot trust the tune.

The more I hear about stories like this, the more I wonder if tuning is worth it....at one point I thought it might be a future possibility.....but it sounds like tuning has gotten you into a no-win situation.

I think you might have to throw in the towel, and get it fixed/flashed by the dealer......OUCH!!!

I guess it comes down to how lucky you are feeling. If you fix it yourself....will it run good enough to get it to the dealer for a re-flash...or a dyno for a re-tune...remote or otherwise?

When I replaced my Injectors with JCW's, a few guys at MassMotoring club recommended that I replace my fuel pressure regulator (there is a complete thread there, including picture of the regulator, etc). I did not swap out the regulator, and my car has been doing fine. I can tell you that is a dealer only part.....70 or 100 bucks if I remember. -=gRay rAvEn=-took his apart when he did his swap, and said it had a micro filter in it, entire unit was easy to replace...pull off the fuel rail (help on by 2 bolts)with the injectors, relieve the pressure then, remove the regulator--it is held on by a horseshoe shaped clip...easy swap. Might be worth the saving of a days trouble to do it yourself. I know when he ordered his, he said it was not commonly stocked, and it had to be shipped.
Not sure about the fuel pump price, or the ease in doing it.....but lets face it, working with gasoline sucks...one error...and MINI flombay!!

Funny story...I have heard that Dinan, the BMW/MINI tuner had the same problem you have on their test MINI....that's why all their their stage kits (including 15% pulleys) all have an upgraded/modified fuel pumps and regulators...not because they really needed the extra fuel, but because his car had a similar problem, and they thought that was how all MINI's were!!! The story is only hearsay and rumor....but I have heard it multiple times from different unrelated sources. Shows it can happen to even the best!!

 

And Dinan is their pet in-house tuner, still the left hand doesn't tell the right hand anything. Or maybe it's like the asking directions thing, you surrender your manhood if you ask for help or information. Oh...Whoops!
Wouldn't it be nice if having identified a problem I could hand it to dealer, say fix it, it's under warranty, wait 2-3 hrs and drive it home?
Ha.
Besides the unit repair issues looks likely I'll have to throw the entire tune out the window since done with low fuel pressure; I wonder if it will even start or run once it has the correct pressure. May be forced to dealer -reflash on the spot. Then it will be back to square one with the tuning issue.
If I may quote: Flash tool, anyone?

 

Quite often a mechanic will start off with a re flash as a short cut to a clean slate with a engine issue. The good news is that often it is not registered on the repair order and you do not have to pay for it . The problem of course is those with a flashed tune lose the tune. For anyone with a tune taking their car to a dealer they have a tough choice as to whether or not to make them aware of the tune and ask them not to re flash unless completely necessary. You may keep your tune but you risk further scrutiny when it comes to warranty issues. I don't have that problem any more as I am past my warranty but it was a sticky wicket back in the day.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Update...It was anybody's guess whether the problem was fuel pump or pressure regulator, so since either requires a day off work to go to dealer (apparently two days since they won't order part without first doing diagnosis themselves) I took a gamble and ordered the regulator thinking it might be a wash with costs, and maybe fix the problem! It wasn't and it didn't. While I gained two-three pounds pressure (woo-hoo!) it didn't bring it up to scratch, only 46. Same cold symptoms.
So I still need to get fuel pump. Cash upfront. Well at least I have something to complain about.
Ought I to consider a whole new mindset on this tuning thing and go into further debt? I thought I read of a flash tool that can store tunes (what, an I-pod?) is this the one under discussion here? Could I store present tune, somehow revert to factory for dealer visit, and re-flash after? I'm clearly a babe in the woods on this, so suggestions are welcome.
I asked Jan just for advice, again. I have nothing.
So, I ponder momentarily...If I had to choose broke or discouraged, am I still the kind of guy that wants it all?
I realize, though, I'm kind of liking the seats.

 

Really, don't think your issue is with fuel delivery here.
Just sounds to me like this car was sold because it's always had issues. I'd call Helix and ask Eric what he knows as I gather he did the installs?

You've got a wacked out ECU it sounds like, possibly corrupted by a faulty tune. No telling if the head or cam have failed as both have been known to crack or break.

Sounds like this car needs to be in a shop where someone knows what they are doing before you start dumping money into unnecessary parts suggested by those who are just guessing.

 

Greg, I don't understand. How is it a guess when spec is 50.8 +/-3 and my best is 46? Close, but: No cigar. I believe I have a weak pump. Should I not think so?

 

50-3 is 47. If you are 46 then I might bet it's pressure gage error. Anyway, one pound low fuel pressure is not going to cause the symptoms that you listed.

 

I'm betting that until I address any component or value that's even questionable in this equation I won't get the time of day from anyone capable of addressing more complex diagnosis; or, that the questionable fuel pressure would be the first thing they would eliminate for themselves as a factor.
Ducking any responsibility for what I can do on my end just will cost me more, there's no question the buck stops here. (The problem is, it has to get here first.)
Still, as you suggest I guess there's no reason not to ask for Eric's take on it, if he will respond. Thanks for thoughts.

 

I have to agree. /\

meacoopa, you describe a rich condition at warm up. -1 pound does not seem to effecting the driveablity after warm up, yes? Did it pass emmissions?

What we know: It's in closed loop when the car is started. The warm up cycle is too rich. There are no codes. No code & too rich don't make any sense.

If the tune needed more fuel at the bottom, low fuel presure or not, the tune was done with a warm engine. And, it was a AFR issue. I would not, necessarily, equate the tune with the warm up cycle.

A couple of leaking injectors, after the engine is shut down, could leave some fuel in the cylinders & when started cold, you have this issue. Or the upstream O2 sensor is not heating quickly enough & not reading rich as it should durring warm up ( it eventually does = no code ). Just another $.02........

 

Steve-yes it did pass emissions. Only other symptom possibly related is low idle and backfiring. So...AFR?
Leaking injectors @14K? actually, <8K, when this started? Tweaked too much?I like the 02 sensor and the MAP sensor ideas, just have to figure out the dealer/tune/reflash encounter.

 

What is the idle rpm? Backfire durring normal operation after warm up?
You could have a lleakage with a brand new injector.
The work done by others, regarding this issue, have revealed no problem, yes?
All this points to a cold start cycle. If there is some popping durring deceleration after warm up ( not loud backfire ), the popping would be normal with an aftermarket exhaust, loud, and your mods.

This is speculation on my part, but, the ECU cold start parameters should not be assoiated with anything but the cold start. The tune, for that matter, any tune, would be done on an engine at normal operating temp.

After driving the car for an hour then shut down, can the engine be started an hour or two later without the issue, in warm weather?

 

Idle around 750-800, gets lowdown with A/C, sometimes stalls; also stalls in entering-traffic situations or parking maneuvering, not fun. Backfire always on decel, yes I know it'll do that anyway since it's a Borla but I was also told that too-rich makes more backfire. I guess 'popping' if you like since the muffler hasn't blown off the car. An hour or two later sometimes ok depending on ambient. But in July/August it was stalling and stupefying quite a lot...I guess because of the A/C.
I would be happy to nail it onto the cold start cycle, starting as you suggest with the 02 sensor?

 

As far as I am concerned I am still, as I began, interested in a flash tool. I am not really any more eddicated about 'em, never seen one in the flesh (or plastic) and don't know how to use one other than by reference to threads here. However I'm learning that there may be more uses for one than a desperate attempt to salvage or correct the tune on my car- the problem with which remains unremedied. Can anyone tell me if in fact it might be the way to preserve a tune by downloading it prior to dealer visit and reloading afterwards? Theoretically, that is, in any case since I have only my limbs to sell and I need 'em. But if the car's problem lies elsewhere this second consideration keeps the idea of flash tool in focus.

 

It's getting colder outside. Is the car behaving any better in colder weather?

 

Cold start performance is the same. Low idle and stalling still happen even after hour's run, but less w/out a/c.

 

is your motor a stock 1.6L or a Stroker?