This thread made me think of a book called "Maximum Boost." It's written by Corky Bell (one of the founders of Bell Intercoolers). He created a great resource (that is not written completely in engineering lingo) for those trying to learn the basics or improve their existing knowledge concerning turbocharging systems.

Anyhow, chapter 5 of this book goes in depth concerning intercoolers. This fairly deep chapter covers everything from IC theory, design, power, pressure drop, & efficiency calculations, core size & shape compromises, end tank design and more.

The book has been out for about 12 years now and since the science hasn't changed, it remains a great handbook. It enables you to design a new/uprated turbo setup -or- do reality checks before you decide to change things like intercoolers and/or intake plumbing before & after the turbo.

I highly recommend it.

 

i have read this book before i have it in my room on the floor, it is a good read to anyone who wants to know the engineering and theories behind turbocharged motors

 

Oh, yea. I was was assuming that this discussion included tuned mini's too. I think Jan mostly suggests having an aftermarket IC especially for people he's going to tune... But i dont want to start misquoting

 

I wasn't saying that you're doing anything wrong, I was just saying that the majority of the gains from coolers come when you have higher than stock boost, whereas with a downpipe you'll get good gains with or without a boosted car

 

In the US, I currently would not add a DP to my car because of the MAF and the potential CEL issues. The potential solutions are still a little too untested.

 

Yes and no.

As we know, a properly designed downpipe will allow exhaust gases to escape more efficiently, allowing your turbo to have an easier time doing its job, and your engine to work more efficiently - even with a stock ecu tune.

The downpipe reaps its full benefits once you can tune and raise the boost level a bit from factory spec. (However, beware on that last tuning bit for MINI warranty lovers!) Many of the CEL issues related to downpipe upgrades have been cleared-up and are usually acceptable to sniffers during emissions testing. Unfortunately, in my state (CA), this could still raise flags during emissions. Be prepared and find an emissions testing location that is kind to your tuning habit if you go this route.

A properly designed uprated intercooler will drop the charge temps on cars with a stock ECU tune. Cooler intake temps = denser air into the intake charge. Denser air = more boom due to more available oxygen in that denser air. The R56 will make some really nice power & hp-making adjustments when the MAP/Temp sensors in the charged air stream note that cooler air. (It also conserves more of the available hp that you have on hand in hot weather.) Buyers should keep in mind that the internal flow and overall volume of the intercooler are important to maintaining decent throttle response and minimizing pressure drop.

Once you tune the car with that new shiny aftermarket IC fitted and raise the boost level from factory spec, that intercooler will still be doing its job, but the intake charge will be hotter due to the increased boost. So you may want to get a downpipe to allow the turbo to do its job more efficiently, get the charge temps down a tad, and allow your engine to expel exhaust more efficiently.

It's a somewhat 'chicken and egg' decisionmaking process, but I would get the intercooler first because it should net you larger intitial gains and benefits in the summer. Do the downpipe once you're ready to tune your car and raise the boost.

My $0.02 . .

 

Mini'mon,

Thanks for clearing this up. There has been a lot of contradictory information being posted. You presented a very logical explanation.

However, I still have a problem with the DPs and CELs. I will wait for more real life testing by people who cannot wait. Only time will tell on this one.

 

Yes, this is all true. When I said you won't get much from an IC on a stock tuned car, that was ignoring issues like stop-start heatsoak etc. On the move, I think the stock IC does a fine job. It probably struggles with a boosted car, but clearly not all that much, cos my factory JCW with all its high boost has a stock MCS cooler. And yes, of course a downpipe will be even better with high boost applications, but my original thought was more along the lines of "if you're keeping the stock boost, go for a downpipe rather than an IC."

BTW, i think Riss Racing are offering a free o2 sim for people that are throwing CELs with their catted downpipes, (correct me if i'm wrong here)

 

Yes that is correct, Riss is offering the o2 sim. The issue I have is that it is still throwing CEL codes that have to be "blocked". And as far as I know, the o2 sim is only good for one CEL code only. It does not help you if the DP throws other codes.

 

See, it's still very chicken and egg.

After installing a cat-back, upgrading downpipes and freeing-up exhaust flow even more is definitely a great mod for the R56 MCS. If the DP is where you'd put your money first, I say go for it. Riss is very good to their customers. They're a quality organization.

 

All very true. Edit: I just realised that I'm speaking to clint. hey bud

slinger, that's a shame about that code. I didn't know that

 

Hi Elie. I'm playing nice because I know that you're going to end-up putting both an IC and a DP on your car anyway. Aussies are performance nuts too and it's hot as all getout down there.

 

We're a little crazy (but not many modded minis here)

JCW has 19psi, when you have crazy hot summers, you need the intercooler. I'm liking the Forge.

I like the Riss Racing DP, but I'm not gonna get it till i know what it sounds like with the stock JCW catback.

But before all of this, coilovers and camber plates first

 

Corrected post and wording. Rephrased to include helix and forge coolers as having possible flow issue.(currently liking helix better than forge).

I believe that the alta intercooler design maybe better than the helix and the forge. The helix/forge flow pattern looks pretty rough to me! It appears that they maybe a restrictive cooler.

On another note: I have tuned all of my past cars myself. This is the first car I havnt been able to tune. What is Jan and the other tuners using? There has to be something available!

 

I designed the Helix, what do you mean by flow pattern? I also don't understand how you like the Forge but not the Helix as the Forge is a loose copy of the Helix stepped design.

as far as smooth flow the Helix FMIC has rounded endtanks and we did airflow and heat saturation testing on this FMIC as well as our BMW offering and the entire core works to effectively cool the charge air... My design partners primary business is airflow cooling and testing of computer data centers we have access to some pretty cool(literally) airflow and temperature measuring instruments and computer modeling software that I can almost gaurantee no other tuner uses... basically the proof is in the pudding with a large sample group of independant users all with the same performance as we state in our literature, you'll be hardpessed to find one that is not completely satisfied with their purchase! so please dont "think" it works one way by your "guesstimate" when all of the REAL WORLD DATA (by us and end users) clearly shows how well it works in the real world not only for the R56 but also the 135,335,535 design.

 

 

Mark,

Let me start by saying right off the bat I am not trying to bash or push people away from your product. I am just looking for some facts and I am a potential customer. Your response kind of surprised me from a vendor. I am not doing a "guestimate" that is why I asked the question to begin with. I do see many people very happy with your offering. However that doesn't always prove that its the best. I just had some basic questions before I make my purchase. I know already that the alta design has proven good airflow path and is one of the most respected turbo end tank designs(from multi-car real world data).


I will have to say yours does look better than the forge. I must have looked at a different one and brought up the forge. I will correct my post and use the Alta for comparison from now on.

As far as flow pattern I am talking about the pattern/path that the air takes from entrance point through your core and out the other side. Pretty simple stuff.

Is this a single pass or multi-pass cooler design?

What type of fin pattern? Bar and Plate, Tube and fin or hybrid?

Can we see a picture of the inside of the endtank and the side of the core with the end tank off?


Please do not use your "partners" computer co-location/datacenter hvac system design as a reason you have a good intercooler. Or your "partners mad industrial airconditioning skills" I can tell you and everyone right off the bat that industrial building flow characteristics have little to nothing to do with real world inter-cooler efficiency and design nor do I care to hear about them.

As far as temp monitoring equipment there is really nothing special in that dept. Yes I would hope you do use multiple measurement points as a tuning shop. Not only for temperature but also multi-location pressure differences on the inter-cooler and on the car.

Im not saying that yours is worse or better than any other design. I was just asking for some information, data and pictures. Not a "proof is in the pudding" and "real world data".

Marketing talk may work for the rest of the group but come on lets get into some technical info.

 

First off in this day and age it's not uncommon for a competing vendor to make up a screen name and try to dissuade people by making unsubstantiated comments about their competitors product especially when said product has gotten a better reception and more happy end users. Having said that I understand why many people are taken back by our stepped core design, it's different BUT is designed to maximize the captive area in the front of the car as well as replicate factory fmic geometries in the area where the factory intercooler resides but adds a much larger ambient face with curved cast endtanks. By holding true to the factory geometry there is no need to cut or trim The cowling or wrestle with the charge plumbing as many have had to do with competitors Fmic's! If you are in the market please do searches on the various intercoolers, I think this will paint a pretty clear landscape of the fmic options for this car! As far as marketing goes our data is clear and concise and end users have done the same tests and their results either match or exceed what we have shown.
Here is a repost of our data it should answer your questions about the Helix FMIC!
Helix R56 Stepped Core Intercooler





Prior to the 335i and the R56 Mini stepped core design you had the option to either go Taller or thicker with the cores. In my design process I measured the captive areas in the front of the bumper in both depth and height and went about designing an intercooler that took up all of this area. The end result is an intercooler with 53% more frontal area as well as 50% more core volume. now about the core, we were not constrained to an off the shelf core in regards to ambient and internal fin count as we custom spec'd the core to this application. the core in the Helix FMIC is a single unit stacked up to our specifications in regards to ambient and charge row height and internal and external fin count. since our core has more volume I could increase the internal fin count to remove more temperature and still meet the targeted air flow and pressure drop for this application. as you see by the AIT data logs the intercooler works amazingly well.



Endank design- all endtanks are not created equally, air likes to flow in a smooth curved radius as you can see the Helix FMIC has rounded endtanks that are cast.
DCICsideview.jpg?t=1196359252


Install:

Fits in stock location- YES
Requires no cutting,removal and/or permanent modification-Yes


Design:
More core volume than stock- Yes 50%
More Ambient face than stock- Yes 53%
More charge rows than stock(5)- Yes 12
Bar and Plate construction- Yes


Performance:
STOCK turbo outlet temperature 245 degrees F(estimated using a 65 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi

Temp drop from 245f to 111f(peak temp) in 4th gear run = -134f degree drop

HELIX TEST turbo outlet temperature 253 degrees F(estimated using a 71 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi

Temp drop from 253f to 89f(peak) in 4th gear run = -164f degree drop, 21% better cooling than stock

AIT temp- 30 degree drop over stock

pre and post intercooler temp drop- 164 degrees F

Intercooler efficiency- 80% - 21% improvement in efficiency over stock(59%)

Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 250hp(400cfm) airflow


Installed Pics:







Independant thoughts on the Helix FMIC

"After about six months and 21 days on the track with the Helix IC, I think the Helix IC is fantastic. I took a chance being part of the first group buy way back when and could not be happier with it." Slinger 688

"Ok, install done...and wow. I recommend this IC 110%!!!
After installed, I took it for a drive not expecting to feel too much of a difference, especially considering its 110+ here today. But wow, the difference is very noticeable!" Thumper MCS

"So after some more driving around...in 117 degree heat. I continue to be impressed.
What Arnel said in his post about IAT's actually going DOWN as you go WOT...they do. I thought he was a little crazy when he said that, but mine does it too.
IAT's will hover about 5-7 degrees above ambient when cruising, then if you floor it WOT they will drop to nearly ambient ( I actually saw 2 degrees BELOW ambient on a few runs...not quite sure how or if thats even possible, but very interesting none the less). They will stay there until up high in the rev range where they slowly climb to 7-10 degrees above ambient. VERY impressive." Thumper MCS

"so a couple days ago i installed my intercooler. the fmic looks like a beast compared to stock . heres is what my butt dyno told me,
-turbo does spool quicker
-when rpm hits around 3, boost kicks in even more than before, ( normally the boost will run out at certain rpm, but it felt as if the boost kept up)
-with stock intercooler, after driving for about 20-30, the hood scoop turns burning hot (crack and egg on it and it will cook), after helix ic, hood was WAYYYY cooler (i can place my hand on the hood scoop without burning my hand)
overall i am super pleased with helix's fmic, good investment" StinkyTofu

"after intercooler`14.86@94.3 60' 2.3 81deg ambient, humidity was super high felt like it was 100 out and i was sweating ****.
before 15.3@92 60' 2.04 ran in this configuaration over 100 passes didnt matter if it was 60deg outside it still ran 15.3.
i would say this is a significant gain but was struggling off the line, the track was complete garbage and im sure i can get a better pass. it rained like 30 min before i started running and then they had to dry it off. then at the end of the night the track got even worse at the top of first it kept blowing the tires off. i love the intercooler. thanks helix" eg0911

 

Let me say, I do have a Helix 13 IC and can give you a some numbers from the track. So far, I have 22 days on the track with the IC which translates to approximately 32 hours plus and 2400 miles plus of pure fun.

After each session, I do look briefly at my scanguage. With the Helix IC, the AIT is approximately 18-22 degrees above ambient. In the rain, it is about 14-18 degrees above ambient. This is in line with the information that Mark has provided. Let me say that this is the first time I have been able to successfully replicate claims by a vendor.

In my opinion, you should understand the design and make of the product you are buying and after that, it is all about real world running of the car. And I do test each and every product that I have bought on the track and a number of them just do not make the grade.

 

after intercooler`14.86@94.3 60' 2.3 81deg ambient and humidity was super high it felt like it was 100 out.
before 15.3@92 60' 2.04 ran in this configuration over 100 passes didnt matter if it was 60deg outside it still ran 15.3

this is my data at the drag strip. I was very happy with the gains although i couldnt get a good launch. I will be returning to the strip soon to try and run a better 60' with the intercooler on the car.

i think helix has made the best intercooler for the space provided. there is no other intercooler on the market for the r56 that is nearly as good. I have had the m7 intercooler the alta intercooler and now the helix and the helix is what i was looking for. no trimming the bumper to get it to fit and no struggling with boost tubes to make it fit right. no need for temperature sensor relocation like the other intercoolers either. i look back and ask myself...why did i struggle with other companies intercoolers in the first place.