On a new 2009 which way would you go and why?

GIAC reflash or the JCW ECU way, assuming the JCW is available stand alone and without other costly parts. Generally I am pro OEM and anti after market and warranty voidance could be a decider.

It would help if you have the one or the other and could share some experiences.

 

The Mini Madness Tune is another very good option to consider. Also there are rumors of more tuning options being available in coming months

 

Depends upon your objective:

Just want a little power, prefer solid reliability, then the JCW is the way to go, costs more, is conservative... but no fuss, no muss.


Have alot experience with turbo engines? Looking for serious power, do your own mods? Go with an aftermarket tuner... do not fall for this off the shelve crap canned tune for power. Every engine is different, every tune is motor specific, find someone who can dyno tune the car thru the OBD port. I learned this the hard way, you will save alot of headaches.

 

The JCW flash is coded to your VIN and not available for 2nd Gen MINI's separately from the entire JCW tuning package. Madness is selling the GIAC flash.

Tuning options are pretty limited at the moment. If you are so tied to OEM, stick with the JCW tuning package.

 

That is what I was afraid of and the reason for considering the GIAC at a lower price.

GIAC appears to have limited the boost on their flash and not gone as aggressive as others, an indication that they may have encountered some fuel or temperature limitations which they respect and stay on the safe side of things.

Making boost is easy but making boost with driveability and longevity is not.

 

So with a flash tune. Ex: GIAC. When someone goes into service their car would they lose the tune when the dealer does the update etc.?

 

Don't know about the GIAC and the Minis but some of the flashes do get erased that way.

 

The JCW flash is a nice addition to your MINI that will not void the warranty. Also the benefits of the JCW flash are enhanced by any additional performance work you have done to you MINI (i.e. intercooler, boost tubes, exhaust, etc...)

The JCW ECU flash has those expanded parameters to flex its programming into. All that with no C.E.L.

You also get a REALLY COOL Badge!!!

 

But they dont let you do just the flash.

 

Very interesting. Please do explain further.

 

If you improve the air flow by adding a larger intercooler and more efficient piping then the ECU will see this change and adjust boost fuel and timing accordingly.

If your reduce the IA temperature by adding a larger intercooler the ECU will see the denser and cooler air and adjust fuel, boost and timing accordingly.

By changing the exhaust you allow exhaust air to flow more efficiently from the engine. The ECU will see this and adjust fuel, timing and boost accordingly.

Even the standard R56 ECU programming will do this but the JCW flash has a wider band for fuel and boost, etc.. to work with.

The ECU is constantly adjusting the parameters based on the information it receives from the various sensor it monitors to give you the best possible performance/efficiency.

 

Ok, someone sold you a bill of goods.

 

Really...? Well take a ride up to Mystic and I will show you in person.

 

I will ask one of my techs tomorrow, but I am 99% posative that ScottaB36 is correct on this one!

 

I talked to one of our MINI Tech and he said that the GIAC will get erased when a MINI Dealership updates your ECU. I also talked to him about what ScottaB36 said and that is correct. Like I said I thought it was, but wanted to make 100% sure.

 

If this ECU really self tunes, then what is the reason people tune?

So you are trying to tell me it will somehow produce a new tuning table based upon mods you bolt on... right on.

Show data logs, data log this;

post up a data log of the base engine,
bolt on your larger inter cooler, and exhaust, then data log the motor,

show me this mystical change in that took advantage of these mods.

Seriously why would we spend so much effort tuning engines, if Mini had somehow developed logic that magically auto tunes the system. I understand you would like to believe this true, however in order to effectively use bolt on parts, the motor needs to be tuned specifically for them, this is why there is tuning software, piggyback systems, stand-alone ECU's, dynos, large number of businesses manufacturing tools, as well as millions of pages of books written on the subject, and people that invest hours, days, months, and years to learning how to tune motors.

By adding parts to a stock, or JCW (marginally better than) motor you prevent the ECU from pulling timing, or dumping boost earlier than it would normally, this is because the motor is running in non-ideal conditions, it will heat soak, ping, or rn slightly off because the base map is a "ideal" condition. When you bolt on mods you "improve" the operating conditions slightly so the ECU does not pull timing, fuel, or dump boost prematurely. It does not "adapt" it merely runs it's tune better. Period, no big gains, no changes. Same tune, same tuning table, you just come closer to "ideal".

A real tune can be done to leverage those changes, in the real world this is done using tuning tools, in person with the car. A lesser way is to use a canned tune, designed with your mods in mind, meaning someone took the same model engine, same mods, in their shop and made a custom map for that setup. This is a "canned" tune, such as the GIAC, or other flash. Note this is for an "ideal" setup as well. unfortunately not every motor is the same, nor is every moment in time the same, so that tune may do better or worse on your motor.

So just exactly what do you believe you can show me in person? You tuning a motor? The JCW package adapting in person, and rewriting the tune tables? No thanks, post up some logs, I can see a lot in a data log, been doing this for awhile now.

 

What's the estimated cost for a JCW ECU flash?

 

The issue is beginning to resolve itself.

Finally made contact with the local GIAC man and after checking my car's VIN on the GIAC data base he found that they do not yet have a flash for my specific ECU. Flashes are apparently ECU part number specific and a flash for mine has not been released yet by GIAC.

He also confirmed that any dealer/OEM ECU update flash will erase the GIAC flash and will necessitate a reflash at his shop. The customer buys the ECU specific software once and subsequent reflashes are inexpensive.

The advantage of continuous ECU compensation with JCW flash, mentioned by scottab36, is correct as per my dealer's chief technician who has performed numerous JCW installations.

Putting everything in perspective I think the choice is clear despite the extra cost for the added parts of the JCW. The JCW suspension kit goes on first, as the parts have arrived at the dealer, and will be followed by the engine kit as soon as that gets delivered.

I will not be applying the badge though. Stealth is essential in shocking the uninformed.

 

I will agree with you in the fact that people can get more power with a Dyno Tune. If a car is Dyno tuned you will push things farther then MINI ever will. If someone pays to do a Dyno Tune, and they blow the motor. Who is going to pay for it, its not going to be the guy who tunes the motor. If MINI allows the car to push hard enough that it blows, who is going to pay for it. MINI! In other words MINI will self tune, but it is VERY VERY VERY conservative.

 

Completely OT, but what is that picture in your sig. My eyes are terrible. It looks like an awesome Mini dealership or some sort.

 

Seriuosly, you are putting way too much thought into this. When is the last time you put as timing light on your car and adjusted the timing? When is the last time you adjusted the carb to lean it out a bit? These are all things of the past. The ECU is responsible for all of that now.

Within the set of available parameters the ECU will adust (i.e. tune) the car as necessary to get the best efficiency/performance. If it see more air that is denser and cooler it will add more fuel. This will increase the power output of the engine.

Just by adding a larger intercooler with better flowing boost tube made a huge difference in my ride without any ECU reprogramming.

I have a list of people who have ridden in the car and can difinitely tell the difference.

If you are up to it, take a ride over to Mystic, CT and I will let you take it for a spin.

The MINI will go on the DYNO in the spring. We know what the supplied numbers by MINI are for the JCW Stage One Tuning Kit. I will show you the difference.

 

Go out and buy some books on modern engine management, performance tuning, and turbo charged engines. wtf: is a timing light? I use a laptop.

http://www.amazon.com/Modify-Managem...7224074&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Turboch...7224074&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-...7224074&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Perf...7224074&sr=8-4

 

Wow, no need for the attitude. Just accept the fact that you might not be as informed about current ECU technology. At least you got the point about the timing light; It's old school. Today's ECUs are anything but old school.

 

Just read.

not informed... yea.... right on! I think a factory tune is gonna self adapt to aftermarket mods.... Oh wait that's you!


Oh seriously wtf is a timing light?

 

Again the offer is open for a ride anytime.