keep up the good work randy. I can assure you that your effort over the last year and half has not gone unnoticed, and esp. to those of us who all watched/participated in exploring parts of the mini for the first time, like those of us who were around for all the initial testings of intakes, pulleys ect, when you guys were truly the innovators/explorers. Keep on doing what your doing, please don't let someone discourage you because of their infinite wisdom they have gained from being apart of the community for a week.

Blake

 

>>...because of their infinite wisdom they have gained from being apart of the community for a week...

Nice touch!

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I see nothing wrong with Randy being a moderator of the Performance Mods forum here on MCO. Clearly, he knows more than anyone else in the whole freaking WORLD about modifications to the MINI Cooper and Cooper S. Period. As you can see from his posts this very day, he is constantly being involved in product testing as well as product concepts. He was willing to admit that the new Plasma Booster will only give you a small gain in HP and torque, and this is a PRODUCT THAT HE SELLS. He was willing to admit that the UUC is not the be-all, end-all of exhausts, and that perhaps it is a bit high on price (still looks like an awesome exhaust to me, though!). But he's not out there to toot his own product's horn. This is the benefit of having him on here as a Moderator. I understand why MINI2 is set up the way that it is; and I would understand if Vendors were more limited in their powers, but I think Randy has held himself to a higher standard over time, and it shows.

 

Guys still you miss the point. First I was not singling out anyone in particular but used the posts at the top of the site as an example because its an obvious one.

I agree that Randy adds value however from another perspective I dont feel its fair to the other Vendors. Whom am I to care... well no one but it doesnt seem right. I am also not talking just about Randy.

Point is you should release info about your products in the section designed for that. Thats what its for!

I had hoped to see some good reviews of parts but I dont know who to trust. It seems the second somone buys a part they are the spoksman and expert. Is there anyone out there that can give a real review about the product that isnt apart of the possie that sold it?

Is there anyone that sells products because they actually believe in the part and not because they make the highest margin?

I came to the forum to talk to people who own and have tested these mods. Not to listen to a sales pitch. I am sure Randy's intentions are pure but he runs a business like everyone else.

I want to see some critical reviews about parts and not from vendors. Not personal but we cant trust them. If you do your research and talk to folks that have the products you will be fine. I dont know how many times I have purchased something because the sales guy was pushing it for some reason then to find out it was not as advertised. It was what he had in stock and needed to move it. They use the entry level products as bait then tell you that if you really want performance you should spend more. I cant stand this. I want to hear it from folks who have it and test it.

I have noticed a trend on this site and it seems to follow the flavor of the week. This week its plasma booster. Do you think that any vendor would tell you that the plasma booster is a waste of time for $250.00 if they sell it. Hey as long as it sells they dont care what it does. FYI also I am using the plasma gizmo as an example, is it worth it, who knows but it looks cheezy to me. Looks like it belongs on an Mitsu Eclipse.

I disagree and believe that having vendors post in these sections promotes issues such as the one that started this thread. I also didnt start this thread so there must be others that feel the same way.

Leave the fourms to the consumer, focus on development of your products. Somethings are better left a secret until they are released anyhow.

I dont come here to watch vendors and possie members argue over who is better. If that contiunes to be an issue I will find other means of getting the information.

 

>>Is there anyone out there that can give a real review about the product that isnt apart of the possie that sold it?

Most of us who post reviews of certain parts are in no way a part of any "posse" related to the vendor, with certain notable exceptions. I understand your desire to know complete impartiality was used in a product review, but I don't think you're going to find that anywhere (big finger pointing at supposedly fair and balanced reviews of things in the mainstream automotive press). Everyone's biased, and at least it's nice when people put their biases out in the open. I always try to read a great big pile of reviews on a product and PM/email people directly before I purchase something...


>>...I am sure Randy's intentions are pure but he runs a business like everyone else...
>>...Do you think that any vendor would tell you that the plasma booster is a waste of time for $250.00 if they sell it...

And I quote from Randy's evaluation: "...I believe the dyno results that are included with the package note an increase of 3 horsepower or so. The dyno results I had were a bit less than that...It's not earth shattering...If you like to have neat stuff in your engine compartment, this is the product for you...If you want the best bang for your buck, and are looking for a cost effective first mod, this isn't it."

He didn't outright poo-poo it, but he said that it doesn't do a whole hell of a lot. And for the record, I think it looks totally cheesy and that it's an enormous waste of money unless you've got it to burn, and Randy's review confirmed that in my mind.

Just take everything with a grain of salt, and I don't think you'll have any problems making your own evaluations.

Cheers, and motor on!

 

"Is there anyone that sells products because they actually believe in the part and not because they make the highest margin?"

-well if you had actually done your research you would of seen that these "profit ******" like randy have actually come out in public and said that they will NOT carry a product because they think it is a good product. I think it's kind of in poor taste to come in to a community that has been around for hundreds of thousands of posts and almost 2 years and after a week or looking around you all of the sudden have grounds for the way people carry themselves, esp. tuners. I would love to have 100% independent 3rd parties but if you haven't realized, dyno's are expensive, spending hours of your day posting are expensive, and all the other cost involved in these evals, and I don't know about you guys but I have a day job, and a life, I love the mini community but I am not about to spend hundreds of dollars per product to run a bunch of dyno runs so someone else can feel that the results are pure. Remember, alot of guys like randy were mini enthusiast and mini owners before they had their own mini business, just happens that alot of these tuners, love mini's and have an incredible amount of knowledge about cars, and more specifically mini's, and they have been smart enough to realize that if you are passionate and knowledgeable about something why not do it for a living, why should they be punished for wanting to earn a living that doesn't involve siting in a cubicle? I could go on for hours, but this is just pissing me off, sorry but I don't come to your job and after being there for an hour start telling you how your such a fool to do certain things and start to criticize the way things are done, so please, take a second, step back from the computer, take a deep breath of air, and then come back and say thank you to guys like randy who know what the hell they are talking about, and be glad that all of the work/reviews don't come from the average joe schmuck like myself, because when **** breaks down or you have serious questions or problems I can guarantee you, you are going to want a person who does this for a living, not just some mini-obsessed enthusiast like myself, because what the hell do I know, I'm a designer, not a mechanic!

 

I look at it this way: Vendor come to post information about product (announcement, pics/previews, ect.)
Community is outraged/curious/estatic/so-so/ect, or has questions, or has comments.
Vendor takes said comments, questions, ect., develops products better, or in the case of some vendors, actually change the design based on some expert opinions from people in the community they wouldn't ordinarly talk to in the real world.

Just because someone hasn't abused the privelege of an open community, doesn't mean they will. Making a law just because people "might" do something is stupid, as you have to give people a chance.

Can't we all just get along?

 

well said demolition man!

Blake

 

>>Refers loosely to those parties that "tune" high performance versions of our MINIs (or other cars) such as the folks over at Helix13,M7, Randy Webb, etc. On MCO we have many.
>>May also refer to those companies that specialize in high performance upgrade parts for the MINI such as Alta, H-sports, etc.

 

>>"Is there anyone that sells products because they actually believe in the part and not because they make the highest margin?"
>>
>>-well if you had actually done your research you would of seen that these "profit ******" like randy have actually come out in public and said that they will NOT carry a product because they think it is a good product.

If this was true he would only sell the best of the best. He has a range of products for everyones budget. Thats not performance minded but that is how any normal business should be.

Just because a tunner has some fitment knowledge and is very helpful online doesnt make him the know all see all and more importantly the exclusive forum tunner.


>>I think it's kind of in poor taste to come in to a community that has been around for hundreds of thousands of posts and almost 2 years and after a week or looking around you all of the sudden have grounds for the way people carry themselves, esp. tuners.

Again it seems there is more folks concerned about this than just me. If its working so well then why do you have the tunner grudge matchs and nasty threads?

Its time for some ground rules by MCO. I dont really want to sift through threads that have this sort of content. Do you?



>>I would love to have 100% independent 3rd parties but if you haven't realized, dyno's are expensive, spending hours of your day posting are expensive, and all the other cost involved in these evals, and I don't know about you guys but I have a day job, and a life, I love the mini community but I am not about to spend hundreds of dollars per product to run a bunch of dyno runs so someone else can feel that the results are pure.


I know many folks that dyno their car after a mod that they do. As of matter of fact many of them are in this forum. Thats all I am looking for. A dyno sheet from a vendor can read anything they want it to.

That 2-3 hp from the plasma booster could be nothing more than they did a run with the intercooler temp starting below 100 deg.


>> I could go on for hours, but this is just pissing me off, sorry but I don't come to your job and after being there for an hour start telling you how your such a fool to do certain things and start to criticize the way things are done, so please, take a second, step back from the computer, take a deep breath of air, and then come back and say thank you to guys like randy who know what the hell they are talking about, and be glad that all of the work/reviews don't come from the average joe schmuck like myself, because when **** breaks down or you have serious questions or problems I can guarantee you, you are going to want a person who does this for a living, not just some mini-obsessed enthusiast like myself, because what the hell do I know, I'm a designer, not a mechanic!

This is where you are wrong, Its not Randys or any other tunners job to sit on this forum. You really think they are here on this forum just to give you knowledge... right. They are here to sell you a product.

Interesting how Randy made this huge post about up and coming products and it found it self in the performance section and not in the vendor announcments, now its been moved.

You guys are falling for it and its sad.

 

Coopertino,

Just the facts - as they are!!!! (No flaming intented - just encouragement)
1. Its a forum, and as such, anyone who is registered can participate - PERIOD!
2. I have met Randy, Randy has worked on my MCS, and the guy is an expert on MINIs. He is as honest as they come and that is why he has the following he does. If Randy says its black or white - I can beleive it becauce he's an honest guy.
Good guys do win - and he's a proven winner in business and on the track.

If you hang around here long enough you'll appreciate the different tuners and what they have to offer to all of us enthusiasts - and yes, I expect to have to pay them for their products. God gave me a brain and I can discern for myself what the truth is.

Watch the posts, and participate, and you'll learn something!!!

Best Regards,
Ron

 

Coopertino said:
>>You guys are falling for it and its sad.

Not any longer, I'm not. Your insightful posting has ripped the scales from my eyes and I see a Beautiful New World: the flowers are singing, and the birds are in bloom.

No longer will I be the dupe of these nefarious vendors with their oily charms. Realizing now that I completely lack critical judgment, I can only humbly thank you for exposing this critical flaw. I wait with bated breath for your next revelation, O Promised One. Spank us unmercifully, O Wise One: we need your judgments desperately.

 

Coopertino,

This is the last address I will make, and the only reason I am is because I spent another $200 last week in dyno testing to, you guessed it, make sure I have the info to give you. For information purposes, I do dyno testing in fourth gear, use a fluke thermocouple that is internal to the intercooler outlet flow, and a data logger to be certain the parameters are as close as possible. I had hoped for more from some of the recent tests, but didn't get them and posted such.


>>>>"Is there anyone that sells products because they actually believe in the part and not because they make the highest margin?"
>>>>
>>>>-well if you had actually done your research you would of seen that these "profit ******" like randy have actually come out in public and said that they will NOT carry a product because they think it is a good product.
>>
>>If this was true he would only sell the best of the best. He has a range of products for everyones budget. Thats not performance minded but that is how any normal business should be.

I do only carry the best of the best. If a product is good I carry it - and that definition is different for every product. What I mean by that is for someone sound is important, for others power is, and for still others looks are. That's why I carry different products - they are all the best of the best in one area or the other - price has nothing to do with it.

>>Again it seems there is more folks concerned about this than just me. If its working so well then why do you have the tunner grudge matchs and nasty threads?
>>
>>Its time for some ground rules by MCO. I dont really want to sift through threads that have this sort of content. Do you?

The cause of these threads is very recent - I have been here even since before I was a tuner and offered similar, though not as thorough, advice then. I'm not sure why it has been fine for over two years and we are just now having problems other than it is growing, and Mark (MCO) has had to try to balance all of the many vendors he has now and try to keep everyone happy. I think folks are pretty smart and can take what they like from the information provided, and to move everything into Vendor Announcements prevents any feedback from you the customer. I didn't move that thread and it was posted in Performance Mods for a reason (not a marketing one at that).

>>I know many folks that dyno their car after a mod that they do. As of matter of fact many of them are in this forum. Thats all I am looking for. A dyno sheet from a vendor can read anything they want it to.
>>
>>That 2-3 hp from the plasma booster could be nothing more than they did a run with the intercooler temp starting below 100 deg.
>>

Which is why I take all the precautions I do when dyno'ing to determine if a product is worth carrying. When I do the eval, it is to figure out if the unit has a place in the product line, and I pass on the findings here. I really wish profit margin could be the driving factor, but for me it isn't - whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. I just tested and decided not to carry the Milltek, despite the fact that I get an incredible 35% (incredible in this market anyway) profit margin on it.


>>You really think they are here on this forum just to give you knowledge... right. They are here to sell you a product.
>>
>>Interesting how Randy made this huge post about up and coming products and it found it self in the performance section and not in the vendor announcments, now its been moved.
>>
>>You guys are falling for it and its sad.

Again, I was here before I was a tuner and provided info then just the same. I started doing the how-tos before I really even knew how to work on these cars just to provide info that wasn't out there, and they evolved from there. I am here to provide info and help other enthusiasts, and I am an advertiser to sell product. I hope you can discern the difference and realize that there are good people in every profession that can do both - make a living and help others.

I understand your point, and appreciate your view. Please take some time to look around, and if you like give me a call. I know you aren't singling out anyone, but I think in the case of not only me but some of the other advertisers, you are painting an unrealistic and ignorant (not in a derogatory, but true sense of the word) picture.

If there is anything I learned from my Dad, who I respect and was very successful in the business world, it is to always tell the truth, and do something you love - the money will follow. I hope you can see the merit in that, and that the reason I "sit" on this forum is for the latter of those two priceless yet simple pieces of wisdom.

Randy
720-841-1002

 

(edit) To those who read my post here earlier, I apologize. When I read it later I realized my words could be construed by cynical types as another contribution to the finger-pointing trend. I'm therefore deleting the previous text....I don't play that game.

 

Boy did I open a can of worms with this thread :???:

 

Randy,

I appreciate that your honset and give to the Mini community but the bottom line is your a tunner.

It doesnt matter if your Jesus himself. The bottom line is you have an area to post your information. No matter what you do in a post its always going to seem like a sales pitch too me unless your answering a question from somone who already purchased a product.

I dont believe that tunners should have the right to MOD or create threads outside the new products section.

I am sorry I feel this way but I do. You seem like a nice enough guy Randy but establishments like Consumer reports and such were made because of these sort of issues. As long as you sell the product you test, it invalidates all the data in my book.

The bottom line really for my post here is I am tired of you Tunners fighting it out online. I hope that will stop.

Sorry I feel the way I do.

 

Darn internet got stuck.. DONT HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON AGAIN :smile:

 

Darn internet got stuck.. DONT HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON AGAIN :smile:

 

It would indeed be a great loss if this is your last address, Randy. For what it's worth you have my vote to remain as moderator, tuner, vendor, enthusiast, and participant.

I hope we haven't traded your wisdom for Coopertino's cynisism.

Joe
JCW#316

 

Just want to say thanks to ALL the "Tuners", "MCO", "Forum members", etc., etc. that make my MINI endeavors so much easier. :smile:

Kelly

_________________
<IMG SRC=https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/exx.thumb.jpg>

 

someone.....please.............CLOSE THIS STUPID THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .......ENOUGH!!!!!!....I wish I was a moderator!!!!...How can I get the job?..Please let me be a moderator...please...I beg you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

well coopertino, if you haven't noticed already, no one else has been having the same problem that you do, which includes, 10,000 registered users, 2 years of experience, and over 200,000 posts. So if you have such a big problem with how MCO does things and you have a profound love/respect for mini2 then I would suggest you start spending more time with people who share your same views/values. And by the way, consumer reports is a for profit company and if you look at some of their history in reviews, esp. cars and see how untrue some of their reviews are you might think twice about things. Besides, when consumer reports consistantly gives cars made by land rover and chrysler good ratings even though they have been notorious for having some of the worse build quality and relabilty issues, how can you have any respect for them. Besides, no one is forcing you to come to the forums and listen to all of us who are blindly following evil people like randy

Blake

 

Coopertino,

Randy is our "Consumer Reports" !!!

Ron

 

Ok, Coopertino. I did not start this thread to kick the tuners (tunners) off the forum. So, please do not highjack my thread for this purpose. I want the tuners here. All I was asking for is a stop to the bickering and insinuations that one tuner may be better than the other etc. It was getting a little much.
So, let's all take a seat, be proffesional, and continue on. (tuners included) :smile:

Oh, and Mods, Maybe we should just lock the door on this bad boy...

sorry for the ruccous.