If you push it to hard ***CRACK*** Goes your test subjects.
Turbo should be the last mod on an MCS, after all other's have been pushed.
And I would not expect getting an MC up to 300HP ... especially with a TURBO... That would ruin the motor.

Good Luck.
I look foward to your findings

 

Ok guys...a turbo is NOT the best choice for more horsepower,especially on street car applications and heres a few examples why. Remember chryslers daytona turbos just for example,their were many others as well and they all had the same problem...premature failure often before 30,000 miles either by bearing failures or heat cycling,but this is definatley not the only reason many racers dislike turbos.While it's true they can add some good power,the problem is most all of them cant deliver linear smooth power(smooth is fast) and break traction coming out corners and are somewhat unpredictable which is why cars with turbos are very often beat by a smoother car with far less horsepower.Someone new to the power game looks to a turbo for easy high horsepower gains but people that have been racing SCCA or other event avoid turbos.Theres also the turbo lag that all turbos suffer from to some degree.A turbo might be just what your looking for and theres nothing wrong with that but I prefer a more linear powerband.

 

>>Ok guys...a turbo is NOT the best choice for more horsepower,especially on street car applications and heres a few examples why. Remember chryslers daytona turbos just for example,their were many others as well and they all had the same problem...premature failure often before 30,000 miles either by bearing failures or heat cycling,but this is definatley not the only reason many racers dislike turbos.While it's true they can add some good power,the problem is most all of them cant deliver linear smooth power(smooth is fast) and break traction coming out corners and are somewhat unpredictable which is why cars with turbos are very often beat by a smoother car with far less horsepower.Someone new to the power game looks to a turbo for easy high horsepower gains but people that have been racing SCCA or other event avoid turbos.Theres also the turbo lag that all turbos suffer from to some degree.A turbo might be just what your looking for and theres nothing wrong with that but I prefer a more linear powerband.

Who's won Le Mans the past few years? Audi R8s are at the front and they are winning constantly while the big burly naturally aspirated Panoz struggle everywhere. As for premature failure, you're talking about 30 years ago, modern turbocharger technology allows a properly maintained unit to last in excess of 100,000 miles with regular oil changes and proper warm-up and cool-down procedures the turbo will last a LONG time.

 

I'm not talking about a money no object race car turbos...I'm talking about mass produced passenger car turbos with not nearly the same tolerances and specs.The audi R8C is not what most people drive on public roads...lol.Anyway,It was my opinion and also the opinion of BMW for the very same reasons when they went looking for extra power for the S cooper(read that in one of my Mini books,dont recall which one)...if you like the idea of a turbo...go for it.I'll stick with the supercharger and won't be upsetting my suspension under mid-corner throttle or guessing when the powers gonna hit after the lag and take me wide into a orange cone...of course my opinions come from my experiences and your results may vary...lol

 

I'm not sure if you're implying that I'm not speaking from experience, but I have a 1983 Porsche 911SC and have Auto-X it before, I have enough of a knowledge to know what I"m talking about so don't think I'm some punk kid who just wants to be like his pals who drive GTIs and WRXs. While my car is naturally aspirated, I realize the advantages of turbocharging over supercharging (not least the fact that a supercharger is parasitic, whereas the turbo uses unused exhaust energy to produce positive intake pressure). Furthermore, the designers of the MiniS may have used a supercharger because an SC and its associated parts are much cheaper than a turbocharger/intercooler/wastegate/unit to control boost, etc. You are right, in tight, low-speed cornering like Auto-X a turbo is nearly useless. However, in normal everyday driving and in permanent open road-course racing a turbos benefits will outshine any blower. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I won't even consider going turbo with my own MCS until its clear out of warranty and I've exhausted the upgrades availabe for the SC.

 

The Question for ANYONE who thinks they are going to get a TURBO in their MCS is ...


WHERE OH WHERE will you route all that plumbing? Cut Holes in the bonnet? That's a lot of plumbing to CRAM into a already TIGHTLY Crammed Engine space.

And a front mounted intercooler... plenty of room for that... of course not. Throw some of the plumbing off that back to the main unit... and off the headers...it's almost amusing to me that anyone thinks this is feasable on a lightly modded MCS... under $3000.

Like I said before, a turbo would have to be the LAST mod anyone would do to a MCS.

Now this is all my opinion so throw that in your wastegate.

 

If you turbo a MCS will it still be a MCS? You'd have to call it a MCT

 

A technician at my dealer intimated that certain sources were looking at a turbocharged conversion that would bump the horsepower of a 115 stock Cooper to 225. Provided the reliability is there, I suspect many would go for the upgrade although I could see that waiting until the warranty runs out would greatly increase demand unless you could get MINI to give it the stamp of approval.

 

who's your dealer?

 

I just installed a hamster wheel in My MC and it gave me an additional 120hp...
The hamster added some extra boost but not much at 60hp so a total of 180hp gained... of course I routed the feeder intake and the H2O bottle in the left vent.

 

Lateef:
I could be way off base here, but it would seem to me that if an MC owner was that concerend about more performance thay would have bought an MCS in the first place. People buy MC's because they aren't that interested in a higher performance car, or don't want to spend the extra money.

If your upgrade would cost between 2 to 3m that brings the price of the MC up to the MCS and the owner now loses their warrenty. I am sure there will be a few people who could come up with some hair brianed justification to take that route, but the number of people, or size of the market could never justify the cost of your R&D.

Want to stay ahead of the game, drop the idea.

 

have you put any thought into duel charging an s
i have heard some mention of it but so far only know of one person with
experiance tuning this type of system

 

:smile: Just thought I'd weigh in a bit. I've noticed a surprising amount of room behind the engine. No, not enough for a family of midgets or anything but surprising non the less. It seems a T03 could fit nicely with the proper heat sheilding and a wastegate as well, after all, these are pretty small engines, well under 2 litres. The air intake could basically be run backwards from where it is. The pressurized air could run up directly through an intercooler then forward to the front of the engine with the IC exhaust air helping to cool the back side of the motor. The current supercharger/intercooler actually takes up a ton of room on the front/top of the motor that could now be reworked with a proper intake manifold and mass air sensor/throttle sensor. This would require a new bonnet, but haven't you guys already thought of how cool a new one would look? Picture a new scoop probably at least twice the size of the existing feeding the intercooler and the stock one and that will now feed cool air into the now overheating engine compartment. It would probably look like a wrc car front end.
Now to the question of the need for it. I've seen many race cars of both types. Superchargers mostly reside on drag strips, where the instant power is most useful. A turbo's powerband hitting after initial launch, after the weight has re-shifted, would be most unwelcome. I don't remember too many supercharged cars on road courses or speedway style tracks though. Turbo's can be dealt with nicely by good driving and keeping the engine in the powerband. The one that comes to mind first is the Porsche 917-30 campaigned by the likes of Mark Donahue. As I recall these had over 1000 HP in some cases. They both have their strong suits and weaknesses, although I think the concept of "free" horsepower from exhaust gases already on thier way out is grossly overstated. Why would we spend the bucks we do on exhaust headers, high-flow cats and super free flowing exhaust systems if adding any restriction to it had no effect. I've seen dyno results on catback systems, on MCS cars, produce 10 to 15 hp by cleaning up the exaust system. Now that is relatively free. Putting a few new kinks and a restrictive turbo housing in the way is surely going to cost some hp lost in loss of flow, though probably not as much as the parasitic loss of a drive belt.
To make a long story short (oops, too late) I think I'll keep my supercharger on my MCS for now, and keep my options open

 

Give me a call, I'd be happy to explore it with you. I'd recommend sticking with the MCS for the mods, considering the Getrag box, the oil sprayers for the forged pistons, the forged crank, the sintered rods, and the lower compression. The biggest concern, as it is with the MCS, is the gearbox. There actually was a turbo kit for the Cooper that has since gone by the wayside due to gearbox issues.

If done correctly, a turbo can be a viable option, thoug I still prefer the supercharger. One of the issue is the ECU which controls everything. Getting the parameters to work may be a challenge, but one that may be overcome with some technology I have access to.

One statement earlier wasn't quite correct: Both the supercharger and turbo charger require horsepower to make horsepower. They just do it in different ways.

Anyway, feel free to contact me directly to discuss options.

Randy
720-841-1002

 

If your upgrade would cost between 2 to 3m that brings the price of the MC up to the MCS and the owner now loses their warrenty. I am sure there will be a few people who could come up with some hair brianed justification to take that route, but the number of people, or size of the market could never justify the cost of your R&D.
____________________

Well let's see....$3K more for the MCS, then another $6K plus for the JCW Kit to get to 200hp, so $9K plus and $2500 for modded MC instead of $9K plus for JCW could get you an MC that outperforms the stock MCS. I have driven the JCW and a 200hp MC with the weight advantage I'm sure would out perform the JCW which was very disappointing to say the least when I test drove it at the dealership. I'm sure MC owners would be interested...go for it !

 

I can't. Why wait for the warranty to run out and mod an old car??? I never understood that. I can see waiting to break it in and maybe put another 10k miles or so after that just to make sure you don't have a lemon or anything that resembles that. But if your modification is at fault, you'll be paying for the repair, warranty or no warranty. SO if you've got 10-15k miles and your car is running well and not having any engine problems, why not mod????

 

>>>>If your upgrade would cost between 2 to 3m that brings the price of the MC up to the MCS and the owner now loses their warrenty. I am sure there will be a few people who could come up with some hair brianed justification to take that route, but the number of people, or size of the market could never justify the cost of your R&D.

Why don't you tell that to JCW...and all the people that are wasting their money buying the kit...

 

Don't listen to these people claiming that if the person wanted the performance, they would have bought an S. I would bet MANY MC owners would be interested. I know I would.

-Rob

 

Alright, hope everyone had a nice weekend, now back to business. I have read through the previous posts and hope I don't miss anything important here, if I do let me know.

First the question of why? This is simple, not everyone wants to make 300hp or what have you, but there is a small following who would like to see products like this available for there cars, the guys and gals that want to suprise a WRX or a Mustang at the light, or those who want to run a roadcourse, just look a the Miata, who would have thought?

Next the argument of turbos not being linear or unperdictable ... very very FALSE. Turbos are widely used in a host of racing arenas as well as offered from the factory, look how many turbo cars are available from auto manufacturers versus supercharged cars. Turbos that are sized properly will have a very linear curve and also allow for better efficiency than a supercharger, since these use horsepower to make horsepower. Too large or too small a turbo may cause such issues, but a turbo that is just right will not. Turbos are the choice of both racers and manufactuerers today.

As far as warranty, this is true it may cause warranty problems, but only if it can be proven that the modification caused the issue, so if your radio fails, the dealer must still fix it by law, but if something happens to the motor due to the kit, hopefully you know a good service rep that can pull some strings.

Anyways after the reaction we have had we are sure we want to move ahead with a kit, the next step is to design a system, we are looking for volunteers, so please contact us if you are interested, you will not pay for any labor, only a discounted price on the kit! Again our website is http://www.adfxracing.com.

Lateef

 

IN AN S????

I would like to see where you route the plumbing... and you are planning an intercooler... where?? Where.... front mounted like a Supra? That's silly.

Good Luck!

I still would like to see the plumbing routes.

 

I don't have a Cooper but I know if I had one, I would be interested in an upgrade like this, simply because of the fact that the car can definitely handle a lot more power. Now, about "upgrading" a SC'd MCS to a turbo, I don't understand the logic... I can see that turbo's can make more power, but honestly the SC does a pretty damn good job for this car. Once you have the SPEED mods (pulley, intake/exhaust, ecu), a MCS really hauls ***. And it doesn't stop there if people want even more power. So I don't know how much of a market there would be for a turbocharger change on a MCS.

 

I know I would be interested and if I were in your area, I would volunteer. I am in Colorado, have had many turbo cars, all very reliable...and excellent power at altitude. I will keep my eyes open for your progress...keep us informed....and if Randy here in Colorado gets involved with installs...I'm in!!!

 

>>Lateef:
>>I could be way off base here, but it would seem to me that if an MC owner was that concerend about more performance thay would have bought an MCS in the first place. People buy MC's because they aren't that interested in a higher performance car, or don't want to spend the extra money.
>>
>>If your upgrade would cost between 2 to 3m that brings the price of the MC up to the MCS and the owner now loses their warrenty. I am sure there will be a few people who could come up with some hair brianed justification to take that route, but the number of people, or size of the market could never justify the cost of your R&D.
>>
>>Want to stay ahead of the game, drop the idea.


What about those people who bought the mini when it came out, and no "S" was available. Turbo charging is a very nice option for us early birds.

=D=

 

Someday, I think a nice limited practical turbo upgrade for the MC would be a nice option. Not full blown racing variety but like what VW does all the time for the Jetta. A super commuter MC. Lower cost initially and upgrade path to some fun without having to over stress everything else.

Think limited cost, limited gains but significant (MC is a bit limited on the power side but not on the handling side).

Could be a big market worldwide in my opinion. Hard to find quite enough space under the bonnet- would be interesting. Looking forward to the next year. How about a turbo convertible MINI!

 

here's a couple of questions;

1) Any possibility that it would be a CARB exempt kit?
2) Any possibility that you would create a twin charged MCS?

thanks!