Drivetrain change in A/F readings - how to debug?
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
We have a plug we built that allows us to put compressed air into the engine starting at the intake. This works great to find leaks, and something i would recommend most anyone to build. But you will quickly find that the inlet hose blows off the SC at about 10psi or so. But don't worry they all do!
.
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
ya 20cc's isn't a matter of misfires or not. But measure the resistance of one, and see how it compares to stock. The stockers are a high impedance type which means they are 8-12ohms. I have seen some on other cars that are just 3ohms less than a stock injector, and they run like crap unless tuned for.
well hopefully my coming up rmw tune will fix the problem. we will see in a couple weeks. I dont have anyway of testing them. if you have any easy ways, let me know. as I willing be tapping into the injector wires for my alta w/m I guess I can throw a tester on then.....?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
ya 20cc's isn't a matter of misfires or not. But measure the resistance of one, and see how it compares to stock. The stockers are a high impedance type which means they are 8-12ohms. I have seen some on other cars that are just 3ohms less than a stock injector, and they run like crap unless tuned for.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
I would check a couple of things. There probably are misfires going on. This could be because of the 400cc injectors you have either running too rich, or being the wrong impedance.
First off the ECU is programmed for the OEM injectors, and anytime you increase the injectors beyond stock the car will run rich. The cars already run rich to start with so this just compounds the problem with getting rich misfires. Now, the ECU will remove fuel until it runs 14.7 AFR at idle and cruise, so your mileage may not change. But under full throttle and higher loads, it can run excessively rich causing misfires. If your ECU tuned for those 400cc injectors (which is great!) then you could be getting misfires from the injectors being the wrong impedance. If the 400CC injector resistance is different than stock, it will cause the injectors to need more or less "On-time" and this can cause issues with misfires. I have never measured the M7 400cc injectors so i do not know.
My experience is customers tend to just throw in bigger injectors when they are running pulleys and other parts, not understanding that they didn't need to in all cases. Not saying that this is the issue here, but truly it comes down to what the ECU is programmed for as to what injectors you should run.
We have a plug we built that allows us to put compressed air into the engine starting at the intake. This works great to find leaks, and something i would recommend most anyone to build. But you will quickly find that the inlet hose blows off the SC at about 10psi or so. But don't worry they all do!
First off the ECU is programmed for the OEM injectors, and anytime you increase the injectors beyond stock the car will run rich. The cars already run rich to start with so this just compounds the problem with getting rich misfires. Now, the ECU will remove fuel until it runs 14.7 AFR at idle and cruise, so your mileage may not change. But under full throttle and higher loads, it can run excessively rich causing misfires. If your ECU tuned for those 400cc injectors (which is great!) then you could be getting misfires from the injectors being the wrong impedance. If the 400CC injector resistance is different than stock, it will cause the injectors to need more or less "On-time" and this can cause issues with misfires. I have never measured the M7 400cc injectors so i do not know.
My experience is customers tend to just throw in bigger injectors when they are running pulleys and other parts, not understanding that they didn't need to in all cases. Not saying that this is the issue here, but truly it comes down to what the ECU is programmed for as to what injectors you should run.
We have a plug we built that allows us to put compressed air into the engine starting at the intake. This works great to find leaks, and something i would recommend most anyone to build. But you will quickly find that the inlet hose blows off the SC at about 10psi or so. But don't worry they all do!
When this rich condition + #3 misfire codes began to appear, they started to increase in frequency and did not go away after a complete ignition replacement. Now the odd behavior is more predictable...ie, I can run cleanly all day as long as I don't shut down. If I do, 3 minutes after restart, the codes return, motor will tend to die at stop light...If I shut down again and clear the codes then resume, the motor will run normally. Shut down and the process repeats again...annoying but that's my work around until I track down the culprit...Oh the joy of owning a Mini...
Sid
I don't believe that my boots are leaking because I have
a) removed the boots several times
b) used different boots
c) even used different ICs.
so I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't have gotten it right at some point.
SOOOooooo assuming that the boots are fine what is the next step?
By pass value ? I spoke to Carbo over the weekend and he swapped out his BPV for an aftermarket and said he is seeing better boost levels.
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Its just a simple plug that has an OD of 2.75" and a lip to hold the pressure. Nothing too special. But i have a couple of them laying around to help eliminate issues on cars. At first people think, how can that work its just going to blow out the exhaust. Nope, the only place it leaks from is the crank case as the air leaks past the pistons.
well hopefully my coming up rmw tune will fix the problem. we will see in a couple weeks. I dont have anyway of testing them. if you have any easy ways, let me know. as I willing be tapping into the injector wires for my alta w/m I guess I can throw a tester on then.....?
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
I've been running these 400 injectors for roughly 2 years and have not had any misfire until lately...however, having said that, the most mpg I can obtain is 28 regardless of how heavy/light my foot is...which is acceptable and thought to have been attributed to the larger injectors. My Mini currently does not have any performance tune other than a base rev limit adjustment from Jan (had to abort tuning due to boost loss and engine not coming up to temp due to malfunctioning thermostat...winter).
When this rich condition + #3 misfire codes began to appear, they started to increase in frequency and did not go away after a complete ignition replacement. Now the odd behavior is more predictable...ie, I can run cleanly all day as long as I don't shut down. If I do, 3 minutes after restart, the codes return, motor will tend to die at stop light...If I shut down again and clear the codes then resume, the motor will run normally. Shut down and the process repeats again...annoying but that's my work around until I track down the culprit...Oh the joy of owning a Mini...
Sid
When this rich condition + #3 misfire codes began to appear, they started to increase in frequency and did not go away after a complete ignition replacement. Now the odd behavior is more predictable...ie, I can run cleanly all day as long as I don't shut down. If I do, 3 minutes after restart, the codes return, motor will tend to die at stop light...If I shut down again and clear the codes then resume, the motor will run normally. Shut down and the process repeats again...annoying but that's my work around until I track down the culprit...Oh the joy of owning a Mini...
Sid
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
If that is the case (ran good now misfires) look to things like fuel filter. I have no idea what the service life on them is, but if you have over 50K i am sure this is something to look into. These getting plugged can cause lots of other issues, and especially is something you want to change if you are planning on getting an ECU tune.
What other issues can a faulty filter cause? Might clue me to other issues in the past...Thanks!
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
LOL...I found the how to...it's not actually in in the tank but rather on top and somewhat set in the tank but accessable from under the rear seat/delete...
Looking for a good price on a filter right now...
Looking for a good price on a filter right now...
My second problem. When I installed my first boost gauge and nailed the throttle the needle would shoot to 13lbs and then build to 14.5. Today, I shoot to 10lbs and then build boost but run out of rpms before hitting 14.5lbs. I run a 15% pulley.
I don't believe that my boots are leaking because I have
a) removed the boots several times
b) used different boots
c) even used different ICs.
so I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't have gotten it right at some point.
SOOOooooo assuming that the boots are fine what is the next step?
By pass value ? I spoke to Carbo over the weekend and he swapped out his BPV for an aftermarket and said he is seeing better boost levels.
I don't believe that my boots are leaking because I have
a) removed the boots several times
b) used different boots
c) even used different ICs.
so I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't have gotten it right at some point.
SOOOooooo assuming that the boots are fine what is the next step?
By pass value ? I spoke to Carbo over the weekend and he swapped out his BPV for an aftermarket and said he is seeing better boost levels.
Jeremy
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Yeh Sid, its not a big deal, exept the smell in the car and the working posture in there, much better since the RSD, .
Bart, Pete is getting a few of them, lets get together when I come back, we will mess with it, I just did mine 3 times this week end, I'm getting good at it
.
.Bart, Pete is getting a few of them, lets get together when I come back, we will mess with it, I just did mine 3 times this week end, I'm getting good at it
.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Yeh Sid, its not a big deal, exept the smell in the car and the working posture in there, much better since the RSD, .
Bart, Pete is getting a few of them, lets get together when I come back, we will mess with it, I just did mine 3 times this week end, I'm getting good at it.
.Bart, Pete is getting a few of them, lets get together when I come back, we will mess with it, I just did mine 3 times this week end, I'm getting good at it
.What happens when fuel is interrupted momentarily by clogged filter? Does that equate to temporary power drop?
Jeremy
If it's serious you'll just go into limp mode right away. If it's not serious the pros can answer your ignition and timing question.
I'll be doing a fuel filter when I do my 50K mile ckeck up. Thanks for bringing it up guys! I wish it was a simple in-line filter. That would be too easy though.
Jeremy
I'll be doing a fuel filter when I do my 50K mile ckeck up. Thanks for bringing it up guys! I wish it was a simple in-line filter. That would be too easy though.
Jeremy
Again K-huevo/Keith to the rescue!
http://www.lonestarminiclub.com/foru...=4062#post4062
Recently, another NAMer did a how-to for our fuel filters as well.
Good luck getting rid of your code throwing MSFITOY!
Jeremy
http://www.lonestarminiclub.com/foru...=4062#post4062
Recently, another NAMer did a how-to for our fuel filters as well.
Good luck getting rid of your code throwing MSFITOY!
Jeremy
whenever its good for you - Chris and I are up for a project. I will bring my trusty finger in case you need some more CF help
.
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