There is a lot of discussion on the intake, exhaust, pulley and ecu - but what about the larger throtle body? I saw the earlier post from Randy giving us all an education on how and why it works, but not much discussion from anyone that actually has it.

A few questions:
1. Does it help to have the larger Alta silicone intake tube?
2. Any impact on fuel economy?
3. Does it improve the throtle response?
4. What about hp increase?

Anyone have one installed? Comments on it?

So far, I only have the Alta intake (but still waiting on the intake tube) and magnaflow exhaust. I'll get the pulley and ecu at some point, but the throtle body seems like it could be a good investment.

Thoughts?

S

 

>>There is a lot of discussion on the intake, exhaust, pulley and ecu - but what about the larger throtle body? I saw the earlier post from Randy giving us all an education on how and why it works, but not much discussion from anyone that actually has it.
>>
>>A few questions:
>>1. Does it help to have the larger Alta silicone intake tube?
No, not in my opinion. At least not much that one could tell the difference once you already have the silicone intake tube installed.

>>2. Any impact on fuel economy?
Not higher in city or hwy.Same or slightly lower by 1-2 mpg est.
Depends on how you drive. Full throttle doesn't enhance mpg.
I'd have to do more testing with mpg for city and hwy to say for sure.
Nothing that striking so far.

>>3. Does it improve the throtle response?
Yes, this is slightly smoother and better for daily driving and on the track. Can you tell- yes.
>>4. What about hp increase?
A conservative estimate is additional 4 to 5 HP.
>>
>>Anyone have one installed? Comments on it?
Yes. I have about 1000 miles on it. Easy install. I had a shop do it for me while I was at work but it is not technically hard. Nice part is that they replaced all of the stock crimp clamps back the way it was so it looks stock! I don't think the dealer will know anything has been done. This is good from a stealth viewpoint but for those that like to see the upgrade it is not much to look at.
>>
>>So far, I only have the Alta intake (but still waiting on the intake tube) and magnaflow exhaust. I'll get the pulley and ecu at some point, but the throtle body seems like it could be a good investment.

I have the throttlebody, Quicksilver exhaust, madness intake. The biggest difference for me was adding the exhaust. I already had the intake and it was OK- small benefit then I added the exhaust and it was much better for added HP. When I added the throttlebody it increased HP a little maybe 4 or 5 HP max. Throttle response is smoother- several people that have driven my MCS have noted that.
At $459 for the and part and $40 in labor (30-35 minutes to install- possible to do it yourself) it isn't cheap. MPG wise I think mine went lower about 1-2 mpg.

Do I recommend it? Only if you don't think you'd like the Pulley or ECU better-for more HP and torque.
I'd rate suspension upgrades higher if you like to corner fast, wheel upgrades higher if you want more grip and smoother ride, exhaust and header upgrades higher if you'd like some added power and lots more exhaust note (loudness).

The TB wouldn't be an early upgrade. Does it void warranty big time? Well- you'd have to prove that it did something bad. You have to return the stock TB as a core with a deposit of $200 so if you wanted to keep your old stock TB I suppose you could for the cost of the deposit or the part. Since I sent my core back I can't easily put the stock part back on before taking it to my dealer. Due to the stealth factor I doubt that my dealer would note the upgrade unless alerted to the fact.

Does the TB interfere with anything? Nope. It works with the other upgrades well- more of a complementary upgrade. One plus is the easy install. The part itself is a stock TB that has been rebored out from 57 to 61mm (adds 14.5% surface area). Machining quality is good and I'm not sure if there are internal differences with the control for the larger butterfly. Looks very stock from the outside- the only thing you might notice is a small clear tape that goes around the outside of the body housing for the control for the butterfly. The outer dimensions of the TB is all stock size. No problems with any grade of gasoline.

Some additional thoughts. With all of the new info on the better upgraded ECU that RandyBMC is selling now-I wonder if the software program can be tweaked a bit more for an MCS that has additional hardware upgrades like a TB- this would add to the advantage of this as an upgrade. i.e. adding the TB without adjusting the ECU for that upgrade is less of an advantage than matching the ECU for the new larger TB. I'm sure RandyBMC has looked at this because he sells both. Just an added plus in my book.

 

Here is an additional thread from when I first installed the TB:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...mp;topic=12398

You can search for more or talk to RandyBMC.

I don't think you really want to consider an even larger TB rebore. Everything is in balance. A slight difference keeps the character of the car the same while enhancing performance slightly. If you did a huge rebore then you might need a totally different part or you might affect the drivability of the car or it's gas mileage, etc.

This TB upgrade is nicely done. Take a stock part and enhance it a bit. Doesn't cause any real harm and adds some smoothness and power. Works well with other upgrades and maybe even does more with a good match with an ECU upgrade (or for that matter- a good match with a good cold air intake and exhaust).

Also this is a street legal upgrade- although for racing I'm not sure about how it might affect class. No engine reconstruction permit needed. No big bad effect on emissions either.

I don't have any dyno info on it- you might ask RandyBMC to post something.

 

Are you saying Randy gets $459 for the bored out TB and you have to give him your core? So he wants $659 for the bored out TB with no core exchange?

I've bored out a few and that seems a bit rich.

 

No, the core is a deposit of $200 or so. If you keep the core (the stock TB) then you get to pay the whole price $659 plus shipping.

So if you buy the TB and return the core to RandyBMC then it costs
$459 plus shipping of the TB to you and the core back to RandyBMC.

Yes it is expensive as far as mods go.
Get the pulley- its cheaper and you get more HP throughout the RPM range.

Oh yeah I didn't mention the new TB works throughout the RPM range and in all gears- so that is good. Does it work maybe a little better at Wide open throttle? Maybe a little better than at lower rpms. It's just smoother throughout.

 

>>No, the core is a deposit of $200 or so. If you keep the core (the stock TB) then you get to pay the whole price $659 plus shipping.
>>
>>So if you buy the TB and return the core to RandyBMC then it costs
>>$459 plus shipping of the TB to you and the core back to RandyBMC.
>>


That's exactly what jlm said.

 

>>Are you saying Randy gets $459 for the bored out TB and you have to give him your core? So he wants $659 for the bored out TB with no core exchange?

Yes after reading this again. That is correct. $659 with no core exchange. I have not priced the stock TB to see if this is a bad option.

Is it expensive to have a rebored TB? Yes. Can I do it myself or get someone to do it for me? Well I cannot do it myself. Can I get a good machinist to copy the upgraded part- yes, but this is not kosher as far as supporting tuners like RandyBMC who go through the trouble of finding good upgrades for us and finding good sources for quality products.

I am a firm supporter of RandyBMC- I think he adds alot to MCO and will pay more to help him and other supporters of MCO stay in business.

 

How easy is it to install? I'm not much of a DIY kinda guy but I have done some things myself :smile:.

 

If you go to RandyBMC's site you can find the how to for the TB.
See
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...pic=5680&0

It isn't that hard to do- few clamps to remove, some wiggling of the intake tubing, four bolts to remove and a fuel inlet line to loosen and pull the TB out, then reverse to put the new one back in. Might need to buy some clamps once you take the crimp clamps off. About 30 minutes.

Not bad.

_________________
ALOHA

 

It may seem rich, but it really isn't considering how many throttle bodies I have sitting on the bench that are now boat anchors. I went through several at different zero positions, different plate angles, and different bores to make sure it was right. The development cost was significant, and the cost of having the plates and boring done is also significant. I can tell you that even at that price, the margin is less than 15%. I would have charged more if I thought the market could bear it!

I think minihune hit the nail on the head with this being a mod to be done after some of the others - do the exhaust, the intake, the pulley, the ECU all first. Then it's a toss up for cost/hp on the header or the throttle body or the intercooler.

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

I would like to make a few comments on this issue also. I have the following : Rogue/Madness intake, modified rear intake wall, air intake rear bonnet scoops, Evotech ECU matched to pulley, Alta pulley, London SS header, London SS/Quicksilver exhaust, Bored Throttle Body, colder rated spark plugs and a whole slew of other suspension items.

I agree with what has been said above, relative to the various issues. WHAT I do want to mention is that when choosing an exhaust, consider carefully how far you think you might go with mods. WHY ? Well, with my QS exhaust, I am now changing the last pipe section with the muffler to a QS Sport muffler which will breathe more, retain less heat, have less back pressure, and will of course be a little louder. WHY ? Because with all the mods I have on my car ( and it rips ! ) the standard QS muffler can was getting too hot and actually warped the Stainless Steel of the can due to higher heat/backpressure/ flow being held up there. Give this some thought one choosing an exhaust. More HP equals more freeer flowing exhaust needed ...................

And on top of all those mods, I just finished installing the air to water intercooler which Randy says should help lower the exiting exhaust temps slightly. Good deal !

 

As per jigster's comments-
Some people think that a good solution for high mod MINIs would be exhausts that have a straight through flow design- the straighter the better so-
Borla Sport or the like.
Not everyone agrees with this exhaust limitation- however you should always consider what is the final picture of what you are trying to do.
What is the final product supposed to look like and do for you.

Interesting comment is that in order to adjust the Quicksilver above the net effect is maybe better overall performance with louder exhaust note- which for some is good and for others less good- you choose.

Thanks RandyBMC (good point about R&D costs) and Jigster for your comments.

 

Thanks for all the comments - it's very helpful. I would like to get the pulley and ECU, but I'm very picky who I let work on my car (I've done everything myself so far). I'd love to have Randy do it, but there hasn't been an opportunity that is close to me (I'm in Minneapolis). Maybe a pulley party in the snow this winter!!

So - until I can scratch my pulley itch, I'll keep doing other mods to help the performance.

Hey Randy - With this new ECU mod, is there an option to get it tuned for the intake and exhaust (and maybe the throtle body) only? When I finally get the pulley, can I "upgrade" the ecu without an additional charge?

Thanks...S