With the exception of the Cosworth head and m7 coilovers, I've removed a number of m7 parts:

DFIC, aerogel blankets (both), 400 cc injectors, throttle body, 180 degree thermostat, etc.

If I could afford to change heads & coilovers right now, I probably would.

All because I found other parts that I personally preferred. YMMV.

I do have to say that the service from m7 has always been top flight and their support has been unbeaten in my experience. No other parts vendor has been there more readily at any time, day or night, when needed for any questions or problems.

Friendly, interested, and accessible support during and after the sale is a rare commodity these days.

m7 delivers it every day.

 

No one is disputing the quality of service M7 offers, only the ability of certain parts within their range to perform as advertised. We've been down this road in other threads. This thread should focus only on the DFICv2 and if it works as advertised. First we must agree on a testing methodology, once thats been agreed upon we need to do the real world testing.

A simple system would be to equip a MINI with data logging to compare IC temps and pressures on both sides of the IC. Then log for a period of time in real world and track conditions. Swap out the IC and do the same.

 

Wow this sure got ugly this morning, what a shame . In the words of Rodney King, "cant we all just get along" Guy's and gal's, we ALL drive Minis, and I think ALL vendors here are trying one way or another to help the Mini community. Some sell parts, some offer service, some do both. But keep in mind that they ALL need to make money also. I think we need to ALL hold our tongues, as it will lead you down a path you didn't want to go.

 

Actually, it was being disputed/questioned, by the usual suspects, but I agree that getting back OT is good, if the bashers will back off.

 

Why do some take MINI performance products so personally? You would think that their mother or wife was being insulted. Because there is no "consumer reports" for vendor products, it is very important that we share objective and sometimes subjective information on this fourm and try to separate hype from reality. If I had known what I know now I would have about $4,000 more in my pocket and a MINI that performs just as well. I have a version 1 DFIC and for my needs (spirited street driving) it seems to perform very well. Is is it worth the price? - probably not. Is it a good IC for the track? - probably not. Does it look great and does M7 provide good service - definately yes. As I have stated in another thread, in my opinion the best performance bang for buck in decreasing order is a 15% SC pulley = RMW (Jan's tune) > CAI = exhaust. Stuff like intercoolers are way, way, way down on the list. If you are taliking about best bling for buck, that is a topic for another thread.

 

Marwan, these guys are right about what you need to do first, but if down the road you find yourself tuning and tinkering the intercooler isn't a bad choice. Sounds like your on a budget so stick with what these guys are saying. I personally made arrangements with Peter at M7 before I purchased my injectors and DFIC, because like others, I was skeptical. I didn't mean you can just start taking used parts off your car, but im sure he can work something out with you if you have legitimate issues with the product like he did for me with my front camber kit (I didn't end up needing) and when he offered to send me a new set of injectors when my car was not running right (spark plugs wasn't injectors) I can tell you the DFIC worked for me and many others and I doubt you would be returning it!

 

DUDE! Ban someone because of a loud opinion??? Didn't the ***** do that kind of stuff?

Anyway, Marwan, check out NO2 sprayers for the IC if you are drag racing. Most likely it will be a custom install. The setup will allow the freezing NO2 to be sprayed onto the outside of the IC which will cool the charge passing through the IC. It is a really big heat control technique for short bursts in the import scene. It can dramatically reduce charge temps.

Hey, by the way, keep the racing on the track. Don't kill someone!

 

Trying to re-focus the thread here. So Intense, you mean that DFICv2 would be better than a GP IC????

 

I totally agree.

 

Larry, I started to believe so too. But also there's something big in my mind telling me, ICs still reserve power and never gain it. So I should get an IC as soon as possible to keep my car on the level of power it should be, and no HP loss. By the way, I'm a 9999% street racer, I'm not into drags nor tracks. Only sudden street racing with purely stock cars.

 

Budget is not an issue for me, it's the attitude. I dont like to spend all what I have on m ycar at once. I go steps and this was discussed with both Peter and Jan. I think of my car upgrade project as stages. First stage was the JCW upgrade kit to be on my stock 06 S. Each stage I go is around $1000. For sure, the next stage is an SC pulley+belt. But the argument here is, do I need an IC AT THIS CURRENT LEVEL OF MODIFICATIONS ON MY CAR to make a benifit? I do not think so. I might get an IC but really at a later stage with an exhaust. I'll keep on asking like hell before every single purchase I make.

 

pure supposition at this point since nobody has tested either independently that I've seen. At least we know BMW engineers had involvement with one. That said, the GP is the same as stock with a couple extra rows welded on - easy to make your own from two cores if you were so inclined.

 

Marwan

I don't know if it would be better than the GP IC. I have never had a GP so I can't offer an opinion on it.

I have had the stock IC and the Alta top mount IC. I feel a difference in power since I installed my DFICv2 over the Alta top mount. Do I have numbers to back that claim up? No I don't. I drive my car hard on the street and in short bursts. I don't track it so I can't say how it does on a track.

What I do know is that from a start, my spool up is faster than it was with the Alta and it seems to to deliver power smoother than it did with the Alta.
I have been really impressed and satisfied with the DFICv2 and don't plan on ever changing it. I wanted to offer my opinion to you because it sounds like we have a similar driving style.

I'm not into all the testing and ambient temps and stuff. I'm definately not a guru nor do I intend to be.

I do think that gnatster's information is helpful when it comes to the GP IC and his recomendations are excellent. From what I can gather most of his data is collected on the track. I could be wrong but thats what I've read in this thread. Will the GP IC perform just as well on the street? I believe it would. Do I think the DFICv2 would be a good choice, absolutely.

I however do not think it should be the first thing you should buy. You should buy the pulley first and foremost. I think you will get what your after installing that mod first. I agree with everyone else that the IC should be down on your list a little ways. Just my opinion man.

 

The problem with the bolded baseline is that it (at least on the website) does not claim any particular achievements. If it flows air, it works as advertised. Is it 'better' than the DFIC? Who knows? They list why it should be better:
and one car it was tested on:
but that says nothing with how it compares to the stock IC, GP, etc.
Thus the question is not whether it works as advertised, but how it compares (IATs/pressure) to alternatives under various conditions.

 

just because that car (with many of Jan's products by the way) pulled 259hp doesn't mean the DFICv2 had any part in getting it there. For all we know, a bone stock IC would have made the same....a GP maybe could have done 10hp more (or less? who's to say?). To use that result as justification for buying the part is what many take issue with.

example:

Head On! Apply Directly to the Forehead. Head On! Apply Directly to the Forehead.

sooner or later if we hear it enough times, some will believe it actually does something, even if it's a tube of wax with catchy marketing. for the rest of us who say 'show me', well, that's our right as well.

 

so you mean to tell me i've been putting this stuff on my forehead for nothing?

pgt... I hate you.

 

Marwan, do you have anything in place to deal with all the sand clogging up the intake, radiator and IC (and everything else ) ?

We lived in Jeddah for 4 years (man, I am jonesing big time for a schwarma ) and it seemed like everyone I knew lost at least one car to overheating or from sand gunking up the works.

You might want to consider an IC sprayer that feeds from the front and rear washer tanks. It's not like wipers get a lot of use over there

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

Wrong thread. please ignore

 

Sounds like you can make a good decision with all of this.

 

I've got a DFIC w/ ceramic coating, Aerogel heat shield blanket, and an M7 STB if anyone wants them. For the grand total of...........shipping. PM me. First one gets them.

 

and I've done a ton of it. Here's what I've learned....

1) The way the tubes are crimped on the stock and GP unit allows for much better air flow into and out of the IC than any aftermarket unit I've seen.
2) The very thin walled tubing used in the stock and GP mean that it's got pretty low thermal mass.
3) ICs cannot be considered independant of the rest of the system. Here's an example. An early Alta V1 made the most power on 91 octane, the Alta V2 made the most on 100 octane. (I hadn't tested a DFIC yet when I did the measurements). How could this be? The knock sensor. The early Alta V1 had a high pressure drop, and knock wasn't an issue, the new Alta V2 didn't have the pressure drop or the thermal efficiency of the V1, and with 91 octane it was hit by timing retard. When I filled up with 100, the V2 didn't have issues with knock, ran full timing, and the higher charge densities paid off. Lesson here? Don't just think about your IC without thinking about the overall system. Crappy thermal efficiencies with low pressure drop may be the best if you have good gas or water injection. Something that has higher pressure drop may actually make more power if you live where it's hot or have crappy gas!
4) For almost everyone, the IC is a place to go much farther down the mod list than being one of the first things to swap. But if swapping is a must on your list, make sure you think about how it will work with the rest of your mods and your ultimate goal of what you want out of your car.
5) Really taking the sawzall to the front end will allow for some really good A2As but isn't a path for the feighnt of heart. Tuls made a pretty bitchen system for his car, but most won't go where he did, and no one offers one commercially for the R53 cause of cost and complexity.
6) The water to air set-ups are more expensive (at least the good ones), and allow for some interesting things (like ice). Depending on how they're engineered, they can be great, so-so, or boat anchors.


Clear as mud, no?

Also, I'd love to know how the DFIC v2 logs vs the V1. The V1 showed potential, and I'd like to know how it's performance has changed with the new mods to the design. AS for the pissing contests about the different versions and the product as a whole, I choose to keep my opinions to myself on that one.

Matt

 

Why should anything posted on another forum be something that NAM moderators should be concerned with?

 

I post a ton of pr0n and offsite ebay links on another site....I'm waiting for Mark to use this any day now

 

He should. You are truly an internet delinquent. You give guys like me a bad name.

 

Wouldn't normally I would think, but it was one of the reasons that Mark downgraded my membership here.
As far as nuts goes? Because that forum shows 'intent' to disrupt NAM, it's members and vendors. I don't know, ... your a member there, ... you don't see the connection?

Did I really need to answer this? I saw that you posted it here, but then edited it to add my quote, ... so I gather you were directing the question to me.