>>Actually, thats what I ended up saying.


Cool. I missed that in the 3rd paragraph from the end of your last long message.


>>I would imagine the S would be a more suitable car for a high performance turbo system.

Yes, in my humble opinion I think it would be a better route to go than with a MC. I can see an MC with NOS since NOS only runs very briefly and I'd image the tranny could handle those quick bursts...you know those engineers, parts are always tested to a higher performance level, then it is lowered x% to protect the innocent as it were. So when something says it can handle 200 HP, then it probably could handle 250HP or even 400 in short bursts. You know, kind of like overclocking CPUs and busses in computers...


So are you personally going to design the system and market it?

 

Are you attention happy dom? Not every performance thread HAS to be about the cooper S


Just make the kit suitable for both cars, as both markets seem interested (although I think dom is completely wrong and the MC market is much more interested, not many people are going to be willing to strip out their supercharger).

So when will it be done ??

 

Standard (Non-S) compression ration = 10.6-1

 

Sorry, meant to say 10.6-1 compression ratio..

 

>>Well actually I was thinking that a person that wanted a really fast MINI would just buy the standard Cooper and with the cash he saved put a real turbo sytem on it and go out and kick some S butt.

I bought a standard Cooper and not an S for exactly that reason. Plus I liked the look of the standard Cooper better. Please, please, please make me a turbo that doesn't have a hideous intercooler hanging out the front of it. Make a two part intercooler and find some place to stick em. Whatever you gotta do. All my poor mini has right now is a nice sounding exhaust and it really wants something more.

 

Punisher, where is your friends shop at? Does he have a website?
I saw that GM has some small Turbine engines that could fit a MINI. How about that? I can hear it crusing down the highway now and the smell of kerosene!!

 

Velocity Racing is located in Davie Florida. The website is http://www.velocityracing.com.

Barry Henson is the owner. Barry has been building performance based, turbocharged vehicles for years now. He holds many track records in various forms of motorsports, including motorcycle road racing, AMA-Pro Star motorcycle drag racing, ECTA land speed racing in both car and motorcycle.

Everything Barry puts his hands on becomes the fastest and best of its class. An old turbo charged Honda CBR900 that he built in 96 still holds the closed course speed record for a lap around the Honda proving grounds.......this was done with a small 900cc motor and no intercooler.

The fabricators that Barry works with to design his systems are second to none. The metal fabrication done by his people is nothing short of NASA quality.

This is the header and turbo built for my bike. For those that know metal work, you can see what I mean by build quality being second to none.






This is the custom plenum fabricated by him. Notice the polished finish. Quality is not his only concern. If it doesnt look good as well, Barry doesnt do it. So you wouldnt have an ugly intercooler exposed for all to see. If it cant be done right.....Barry will find a way to make it right.



Barry is sponsored by Garrett turbos and their performance racing division. So his technical support and access to the best turbos money has to offer is unlimited.

Im not sure if this is something he would want to tackle. Mocking up a turbo system, bringing it to initial fabrication and being able to churn out a working product to his exacting specifications and quality standards is no small accomplishment. If he knew there was a market for it, he might go for it. He has expressed interest in doing MINI systems to me before though. Im going to approach him with the subject again.

Even a low PSI Cooper making 225 HP would absolutely destroy 99% of MCS' on the street. Ive always love rooting for the underdog!!

 

Punisher is only in first gear and has brought something a couple MC owners have been waiting for. I'm really interested in a turbo. I'm hoping by the time the warrenty is up a turbo system will be on the market if not being tested...
bottom line I'm interested!!! Keep us updated Punisher!

 

I think i have seen a 200HP conversion for the stock cooper on MINI Mania a few months ago, made buy them, that and the 6 speed gear box would make a very sexy mini, pull up next to a cooperS and rev your engine let the dump-valve droop and the guy driving the CooperS, Face as you leave them standing.. well i think the S would be faster off the mark but the Turbo MINI would prob be faster from 3rd gear up....

COOPER T -javascript: x()javascript: x() thats what i want! i think in total the conversion and gear box was about $9000, 3 for the turbo and 6 for the gear box javascript: x()

 

>>Im talking a 300-400 HP system.
>>
>>My best friend owns Velocity Racing. They specialize in turbo systems for motorcycles. My 2000 Hayabusa was built by Velocity and will produce over 500 HP at the tire and has run a best of 232 MPH in 9/10ths of a mile. Thats from a 1.3 liter motor.
>>
>>This is a picture of Barry on his Street Bike Shootout, Factory Honda race bike. This is at Daytona last year at the AMI Brute Horsepower Shootout. This bike has made over 500 HP and run 7.70's @ 190 MPH in the quarter mile. This from a small 1.1 liter motor.
>>
>>

 

just to let you know that i also would be interested in more power for my MC. probably not now. but in a year or two quite possibly. when i've got more $$$. and i'm looking at reasonable power upgrade. not something that'd trash my MC. i'm not necessarily looking at beating the MCS', just something to make everyday driving that much more fun. by the way, i've got a CVT. would that make a big difference?

 

>> when i've got more $$$. and i'm looking at reasonable power upgrade. not something that'd trash my MC. i'm not necessarily looking at beating the MCS', just something to make everyday driving that much more fun. by the way, i've got a CVT. would that make a big difference? >>>

I think the CVT is only rated at 135 or 150 HP.

 

250hp for $4,500 on an MC sounds very interesting. I want to keep my MCS pretty much stock including the JCW upgrade, but I would really like to have another MINI that I could go crazy with regarding power and other modifications I have been thinking the best way to do this would be to buy a used MC really cheap, that would make setting up Barry's work on such a car doable.

 

While some people are wondering about drivetrain reliability, we should all remember two things about turbos AND superchargers... newer application specific, and purpose-built turbo and S/C systems deliver power rather smoothly, and I'd be willing to bet that the factory 5-speed can handle more power than you think it can... From what I can tell, if someone built a reliable turbo or S/C kit for a decent price, many non-S people would snap them up.

I've seen it a million times in other cars making a ton more power and still being able to handle the hp/torque of a blown or turbo'ed motor with a linear delivery of power... It's the sudden application of torque that blows up internals - I can attest to that firsthand.

 

Correct scobib.

What people also have to remember, drivetrain breakage really only occurs when you shock the drivetrain with hard acceleration, like at a drag strip with sticky tires on a sticky surface.

Good handling tires like on a Mini just dont have the compound to really put all that power to the pavement in an abusive manner that would break parts. You'd spin the tires before parts would come apart. Things break only when you can really hook the power up to the drivetrain.

Thats why a street driven turbo car will always be faster than a supercharged car though. A turbo has infinite adjustability of the power band through good boost controllers. You can have it set up with a gear position sensor if you wanted. 1st gear you could make 6 PSI of boost, as you shift to 2nd you could go up to 8 PSI, shift to third and hit 12 PSI and so on. This would allow just as much power as you could effectively use without putting too much to the ground and either loosing traction or breaking parts.

 

>>Are you attention happy dom?

No not yet, but I do get attention depraved...you know when one isn't getting enough attention, one begs for it type of thing.

>>Just make the kit suitable for both cars, as both markets seem interested (although I think dom is completely wrong and the MC market is much more interested, not many people are going to be willing to strip out their supercharger).

Cool. It's nice to see the other side of the coin every once and a while.

 

You know, there might be a market for putting the Turbo into the upcoming Cabrio MINI...

 

haha, a convertible BEAST, that handles like no other. Sounds like good fun!


Punisher, I really think you won us all over, let us know what your friend says about building a kit.

 

There hasn't been much said about the reliability of a 300HP-400HP 1.6L engine.

 

OK- I'd be interested in a 300 HP MINI CVT if that became available in Turbo. I'd just add it to my 2005 cabrio MINI

 

Interesting thread.

As posted earlier, I still don't quite see how you would put more than 250 hp on the asphalt without substantial driveline and suspension mods, such as an LSD, etc... Several people have commented about the feasibility and reliability of a 300+ hp blown Cooper, but no one has talked about how to use that much power.
How come?

Also, in another thread today I posted these details on differences between MC and MCS engines:

MCS vs MC engine:
the MCS engine is fundamentally far more suited to breathing enhancements than the MC (in addition to the concerns others voiced about the 5-speed or CVT tranny's of the MC), and the MC engine is optimized for natural aspiration. These two engines are far more different than most people think:

here are the primary differences between the MC and MCS engine:

1-MCS has oil cooling jets to underside of pistons
2-MCS has oil pump with higher oil flow driven directly from crank, and different oil flow paths
3-MCS has modified pistons from hi-temp alloys with anodized ring grooves and lenticular combustion chamber bowl in piston, which are more suited to electronic knock control under forced induction.
4-MCS has much lower compression ratio of 8.3:1
5-MCS has drop-forged vs cast (MC) crank with 3-layer bearings
6-MCS has forged conrods (vs sintered in MC)
7-MCS has very different cylinder head from MC, with different gas flow and different valve geometry (modified stronger tandem rockers for exhaust valves)
8-MCS exhaust valves are made from Inconel. Valve stems are thinner below guides for increased flow.

The above are only the most relevant differences, but there are many others.
This is the other post about an MC turbo

BMW considered turbos early on in the MINIs development, but went with an SC for several reasons, including problems with heat dissipation in the extremely packed engien compartment.

Some other pits and pieces of info from BMW/MINI:
the MC's 5-speed is rated at 135 hp max, and the clutch differs as well between MC and MCS.

BTW, the MCS charge system does include a bypass valve. Like with a waste-gate, the operation of this valve could be meedled with to increase boost the way punisher proposes with a turbo system, yet neither JCW nor any current MCS aftermarket tuners have decided to go this route, and my guess is for several reasons that may relate to heat dissipation problems. Some of the graphs in BMW engine publications make me guess that the blow-enhanced JCW engine is near it's thermal absorption limit, and further boost could be very, very difficult to deal with. One advantage of the JCW and pulley mod changes is that the 15% reduction pulley will result in a faster water pump rotation, increasing coolant circulation. JCW also spent a lot of work on the cylinder head to enahnce heat dissipation.

 

>>There hasn't been much said about the reliability of a 300HP-400HP 1.6L engine.

In the 80's (I think?) BMW had an F1 engine based on the original 3-series 1.8 litre in-line 4 block, that made up to 800+ horses, so it definitely can be done. That said, this power was acchieved at about 16k rpm with highly modified valve train (only block was from 3-series, really), and we all know most F1's only last for a few races at best.

Frankly I have my doubts whether a Cooper engine (any one) with much more than 250 hp will last very long, or will be very driveable. I still think the biggest issue in terms of reliability will be heat dissipation.

 

Punisher,

Any news on this? Are you still planning to make the turbo? You just disappeared.

 

Any word yet big pun?
LOL...