Longtime lurker here just wondering if everybody here has a strong feeling of R53 v R56 for the track. I decided to post here as I figured those attending HPDE's would understand my situation the best.

The background: I've had 30+ track days mostly in a NA Miata, some in a B5 Audi S4, and a little in a B5 Audi A4 1.8QT. The trend for club rules/ insurance insanity over the past few years prompted me to sell the Miata. I have had about a 3 year hiatus due to an addition to the family. Now that our son is over 2, I'm hoping to get back in the swing of HPDE's. Like most people I've had a less than realistic wishlist for cars I'd like for that purpose (911 GT3, Z4 M-Coupe, Exige), but finances make that tough at the moment & I had the most fun on the track in the Miata because of its lightweight handling. Putnam Park Road course is less than a 50 minute drive from my house (relatively small technical track), so I have relatively easy access to a track non-high HP track.

The dilemma: To find a car that is easy to take to HPDE events but could still be used some of the time on the streets. I don't really need a daily driver because I walk to work 4/5 days a week. I'm intrigued with a MCS (or a JCW MCS). I've driven a few R53's I've rented on vacations. I'll have a chance to sample an R56 next month when I'm out for a meeting. Otherwise, I've had 3 FWD cars in the past (83 GTI, 84 Scirocco, 90 Saab 900T). I can live with the understeer (I drive an Audi after all ).

The question: On Miata.net, there were always great debates between the NA & NB folk on which was better. I'd like to hear what you all think if you had the choice of an R53 or R56 to use on the track. Are there cooling issues that favor the R56 over the R53? One of the best things about the Miata was the ease of swapping in and out race seats with a 6 point harness on stock rails. Can this be done easily in either the R53 or R56?

Many thanks & I look forward to hearing your responses.

 

 

BTW, I have searched and read some of the threads on these topics. I just didn't feel they answered all my questions & I thought this the most appropriate forum to entertain my questions.

(For example, clearly you can swap seats out for fixed race seats, but it doesn't sound like people swap back and forth between them.)

Should I be worried, tazio, that you are sitting back watching eating popcorn? Does this mean I'm going to get railed on for not peforming enough searches?

 

The downfall to me trying to read and post at work is that I didn't have much time to look in depth. Found a link to the harness bar & mounts for Sparcos & Recaros to the stock rails that would still allow fore/aft ajustments. That would help include my wife in HPDE events. Anybody here use the harness bar or the mounts? If so, are they truly pretty easy to change in and out?

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...html#autopower

 

No worries. It's just that you are asking which is better - the R53 or R56? Let's just say this is a "sensitive" topic. More like a violent religious war.

Which is strange, because the R53 is so clearly superior on all dimensions.

 

Just note that those BK brackets do not allow for mounting the stock seat belts. If all you will run street and track are harnesses, then you are good. Otherwise you will need to fab something up. Which has been done.

 

I drive my 02 R53 on the track and my buddy Carver drives an R56. I am partial to my supercharger, but I believe he has more torque at the high end. Regarding suspension, you'll almost certainly modify any car you get, so I think that will pretty much be a wash. I don't know about racing seat fitment. Somebody is bound to say it, so I'll be the one. "The best MINI for HDPE is the one you have."

 

Not trying to incite a riot . The NA/NB debate in the Miata community was similar (smaller, lighter, less powerful vs. sleeker, slightly larger, etc.). The Audi community forums are probably even more fervent (die hard forced induction vs big V-8 loving folks)

Reading reviews of the R56 it seems like some disliked the increase in wheelbase. Handling can obviously be massaged in whatever direction with aftermarket replacements. I'm more curious if people run into cooling issues with the R53. I knew Miata folds that did turbo conversions and supercharger conversions. The ding on the superchargers always seemed to be they didn't stay cool well at the track. Personally, when I rented R53's I actually kind of liked the linear throttle response of the SC. Ultimately, I don't really expect either car to be "better"...I guess what I should really be asking is what do you like about your R53's and your R56's at the track!

 

If you have lots of track experience with rwd (miata), I would almost say stay with rwd...

I have been eyeing a 2006 Porsche Cayman S. But I will keep my R56 for now.

 

first time I went to look at a mini I asked the guy in the mini dealer about the turbo, size, lag, etc. and he sluffed it off as "just like" the s/c version. he failed to impress me even more when he acted rushed that he already sold 3 cars by ~1pm on a sunday.

I guess you could say my first test drive of one (aside from the dead battery and really bad yo-yo) was supercharger heaven...

 

giving serious consideration to getting a Mini for HPDE events and lapping days (no true racing, no autoX). I don't need a daily driver, but it would still nice to have a functional car I could use on the street. Just wondering what people like about the strengths of their particular model.

I posted elsewhere, but I'm looking for a little more traffic.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...or-a-hpde.html <-- my original post.

 

Funny, most of us look for less traffic on the track.

 

I can't think of big issues to make it a contentious debate, it's just a matter of preference (so drive both). The R53 doesn't suffer from cooling issues, the puny stock intercooler heat soaks at rest but recovers quickly at speed. I'm unaware of seat and harness bar fitment advantages, besides the R53 being out longer and perhaps having more applications for things like bolt-in cages. Sounds like a PITA to swap in and out any of that equipment on a regular basis.

 

I track my R56 and have a couple friends that track their R53s. It's all good - there's a bit of a difference in gearing and where the powerband lies, but it tends to even out, depending which track you're on. If I were to buy a car mostly for that purpose, I'd probably go with the R53 - just because they are less expensive for something to beat on. Steering feels a little more direct with the R53 as well, but if you are modding the suspension anyway... meh. Both models have lots of aftermarket support.
Anyway, you'll probably reach your own conclusion after testing them both

 

Threads merged - please do not cross post

 

forgot about the cross posting!

 

2005 MCS R53 more of a driver's car.
Has better steering response, and connected feel altogether.

 

Stock vs Stock. I think the R56 is a better chassis. I drove a stock JCW package R56 at sebring a year or so back and I really liked the chassis, I felt it was more communicative with the driver. That said... I didn't like the engine. It was bland, It was Dull, It had NO top end. The Extra tq out of the corner was brief (as you should be that low in the RPM band anyway) and usually just resulted in wheel spin. Lap times are VERY similar between the two however. The car is also classed rather unfavorible for any racing I see. For SCCA it's a Touring 3 car... HAHAHAHA no chance in hell it could compete. For NASA Performance Touring and Time Trials it looks like this....
[FONT=ArialMT][SIZE=1][FONT=ArialMT][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]The Problem is the R56 with a reflash will overshoot it's Tq/Weight

 

Sorry last post got posted before I was done. And I can't edit...

The R56 will blow it's tq/weight ratio with a reflash for PTD/TTD And I don't think it can make the power to run with the PTC/TTC boys with out using too many points. I think the R56 JCW can run in TTC nicely though, But it would have to be very careful on the Torque as it would blow the Tq/weight ratio easy.
Now an R53 could be made into a very mean PTD/TTD car.
Just my $0.02

 

The best ive seen in here in hot Arizona have been the R53's. Race Techniks a local shop (ex ferrari mech) builds quite a few of them.

 

Never tried JCW R56, but the R56 MCS I did drive and it was not as communicative as R53. Wonder if mechanical LSD would make any difference in JCW R56?

 

I'm within days of finalizing a deal to buy somebody's well cared for 2004 (found on the ads here!). It already has somemodifications (DDMWorks CAI, Milltek exhaust, wheels, tires). I'll drive it like it is for a bit then may dip my toe into mods after that. I never plan on racing, just HPDE & lapping days, so I won't have to worry about what class, etc. I'm very excited! Thanks for your input!

 

Best of luck and hope to see you on the track one of these days.

 

This is great. Drive what you have and have fun. It does not really matter much except get some safety gear (and track pads etc).

 

I hope you will enjoy the r53. I bought my first one in 2003 (an 02 r53) and quickly sold my e36 M3 afterwards. Enjoyed one HPDE with the m3 prior to sale it was awonderful and capable car. I then sold the 02 R53 on a whim just to realize that I had to buy another one in short four months.

We missed the agility and capability of the car. I have owned a 911sc, M3, a few rx7s and Audi b5 S4. What I like about the MINI is that you can have a blast on the track and then easily take it out on town in bad weather as well. I DD mine, drive it to go skiing, autox and HPDE. Just have four set of tires.

I bought a 2005 r53 three years ago. The R56 was just coming out at the same time. My wife and I went on three test drives in various r56 cars. We tried to talk each other into getting the new and improved turbocharged car.

At the end of the day it was the feel of the r53 that appealed to our senses and lower beltline of the r53 that appealed to our taste.

which ever car you get make sure to have a rear sway bar and have a blast at the track.