First Track Experience
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: West New York, NJ
with belts they want you to mount them properly b/c an improperly installed harness is actually more dangerous than a OE 3 pt. if you have the mounting points wrong on your shoulder harness it'll compress your spine (compression fracture of vertebra, or worse). same with lap belts they really need to be over your hips and what you're bolting them to properly reinforced or else they can pull through. There is actually a lot that goes into a properly mounting a 5 or 6 pt.
Honestly having tried both (had a schroth rallye 4 in my R53, and have 6pt sabelts in my E30), I don't really feel safe in a 4pt, its very hard to keep the lap belt over your hips (very important to avoid submarining) while keeping the shoulder belts tight enough to keep you in the seat. Honestly if you're going to track I'd just get a CG lok to keep you lap belt tight. I know schroth sells the rallye to work with the stock seats, and the ASM is supposed to keep you from submarining but you really should have a fixed back with any harness, sub belt or not. I've seen stock seats fail at track days with harnesses (E36 M3 with schroth rallye's and factory recaro's), luckily there was no secondary impacts so the driver was ok when the seat back broke, but if anyone else hit them, I don't think he would have walked away.
Honestly having tried both (had a schroth rallye 4 in my R53, and have 6pt sabelts in my E30), I don't really feel safe in a 4pt, its very hard to keep the lap belt over your hips (very important to avoid submarining) while keeping the shoulder belts tight enough to keep you in the seat. Honestly if you're going to track I'd just get a CG lok to keep you lap belt tight. I know schroth sells the rallye to work with the stock seats, and the ASM is supposed to keep you from submarining but you really should have a fixed back with any harness, sub belt or not. I've seen stock seats fail at track days with harnesses (E36 M3 with schroth rallye's and factory recaro's), luckily there was no secondary impacts so the driver was ok when the seat back broke, but if anyone else hit them, I don't think he would have walked away.
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4th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
From: Pauls Valley, Oklahoma
Greg and Alan,
Thanks for the information. Not sure what to do now. Phil Wicks really encouraged everyone getting the Schroth and I looked at one in another participants car. He said it really keeps you planted in the seat. I'll do some more checking before buying anything.
I will primarily be doing the track days at Hallett where I'm sure they don't care, but I don't want to spend money on safety equipment that people think could do more harm than good.
Thanks again,
Joe
Thanks for the information. Not sure what to do now. Phil Wicks really encouraged everyone getting the Schroth and I looked at one in another participants car. He said it really keeps you planted in the seat. I'll do some more checking before buying anything.
I will primarily be doing the track days at Hallett where I'm sure they don't care, but I don't want to spend money on safety equipment that people think could do more harm than good.
Thanks again,
Joe
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 5
From: Burlington, VT
Remember that the real purpose of a belt / harness is to keep you place when / if you crash - not while you're driving. Pretty much anything can keep you in place while driving...
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area CA
Before you start modding your car to high heaven, I suggest having an instructor in the car with you at ALL times to start with. Also, if there is an instructor session, ask if you can be a passenger in HIS/HER car. That was the biggest eye opener for me so far....to be pushed to my limit as a passenger and to see what really can be done.
Gave me more confidence in myself and my car to push it a little further and hence in the process learn more about the track and how to control the car.
I've been to two HPDE's - both in the novice group - with the first time in my wife's 06 MCS which was not modded beyond wheels and summer tires and a CAI. The second time was in my 04 MCS which is highly modded. I think having done the first event in the unmodded car helped me a lot. Driving my car (which I'm more used to to begin with) in the 2nd HPDE was also an eye opener.
Like MBCoops said, brakes, brakes, brakes. Really excited to see how the brake ducts work out for me on Nov-2. Oh and regarding rcompounds I ran Toyo RA-1's with my car and they really felt good. Instructor told me why bother chewing up your street tires when you already have the Rcompounds (got them slightly used for a good deal) so I figured what the hey. They were fine and never broke loose on me, which means hopefully I am driving within my limits.
Gave me more confidence in myself and my car to push it a little further and hence in the process learn more about the track and how to control the car.
I've been to two HPDE's - both in the novice group - with the first time in my wife's 06 MCS which was not modded beyond wheels and summer tires and a CAI. The second time was in my 04 MCS which is highly modded. I think having done the first event in the unmodded car helped me a lot. Driving my car (which I'm more used to to begin with) in the 2nd HPDE was also an eye opener.
Like MBCoops said, brakes, brakes, brakes. Really excited to see how the brake ducts work out for me on Nov-2. Oh and regarding rcompounds I ran Toyo RA-1's with my car and they really felt good. Instructor told me why bother chewing up your street tires when you already have the Rcompounds (got them slightly used for a good deal) so I figured what the hey. They were fine and never broke loose on me, which means hopefully I am driving within my limits.
I agree with this completely. If you are new to this, you NEED an instructor in your car for most of the day. Look into a BMW CCA event as they are usually very good about instructors.
Greg and Alan,
Thanks for the information. Not sure what to do now. Phil Wicks really encouraged everyone getting the Schroth and I looked at one in another participants car. He said it really keeps you planted in the seat. I'll do some more checking before buying anything.
I will primarily be doing the track days at Hallett where I'm sure they don't care, but I don't want to spend money on safety equipment that people think could do more harm than good.
Thanks again,
Joe
Thanks for the information. Not sure what to do now. Phil Wicks really encouraged everyone getting the Schroth and I looked at one in another participants car. He said it really keeps you planted in the seat. I'll do some more checking before buying anything.
I will primarily be doing the track days at Hallett where I'm sure they don't care, but I don't want to spend money on safety equipment that people think could do more harm than good.
Thanks again,
Joe
The Schroth Quick Fit is designed & tested to work in a MINI. The rally 4 is not.
The Quick fit will help hold you in your seat. Not a bad thing. In a crash it is designed to work with the MINI's pretensions. I like my Schroth more than the CG locks that I used to run.
If you do BMW schools they require the same restraints on both sides.
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4th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
From: Pauls Valley, Oklahoma
Gnatster,
Thanks for researching that. Well, I don't think I'm springing for two racing seats and harnesses. Looks like that's the only way to meet the PCA rules. Guess I'll stick with the factory belts for now.
Thanks for researching that. Well, I don't think I'm springing for two racing seats and harnesses. Looks like that's the only way to meet the PCA rules. Guess I'll stick with the factory belts for now.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
I would hold off on the 4 point debate for a bit yet......the PCA is trying to cover all uses of the 4 point harness, and I would guess that they are unaware of the use of the Schroth unit in a MINI. If you were to take the test results and listing of the harness to PCA I am sure they would have to approve it's use in the MINI.
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