i wish i had an answer for you. here is my typical agenda. switch to track pads early the morning of the event while changing to track rubber. two gradually building laps to heat things up, then brake til my eyes pop out. i am also running the poly h's.....

 

Crap - that sounds like my agenda, too, just minus the H pads.

mb

 

If I may add a few thoughts to this thread.

Carbotech makes a full line of track pads and one of the main reasons they are becoming the pads to run is the total lack of iron in the pads. CT is the only pad company that doesn't use iron. Iron is a big reason rotors get so hot and iron also eats away at rotors. Most MINI drivers find the XP8's or XP10's work very well for track events. If your MINI is on the street more then the track you can switch over to the CT Bobcat or AX6 pad for off track use without changing the rotor or the need to bed them in with each change. Below is some info form my site. I welcome your PM's for setup and pricing on your next track pad. http://www.autoxcooper.com/ctbrakes.html



Track Days

If you like to take your high-performance car out to the track for a “Track Day” event, Carbotech brakes will easily handle the additional stress of racing. In fact, more and more professional racers are specifying our brakes by name, because they’ve discovered the difference Carbotech makes on the track, where it counts. Also, more and more tuners are selecting Carbotech brakes for their domestic street rockets, to make sure they have the positive stopping power and cornering control they require. Carbotech brakes offer superior performance, are rotor-friendly, and last longer than any other performance brake pads on the market. That’s a combination that’s tough to beat.
Carbotech Brakes... Innovations in Braking Technology

Carbotech performance brakes feature a unique brake pad technology that is now being used by pro racers, club racers, tuners, and law enforcement agencies across the country. Carbotech brakes utilize a ceramic and metallic construction in a range of compounds that out-perform competitive brakes. Carbotech brakes are made from compounds that offer higher initial bite, torque and fade resistance—providing consistent brake modulation and performance over a wide range of operating temperatures. In addition, Carbotech brakes are rotor friendly, saving money and keeping your vehicle out of the service shop far longer than the competition.

 

Uh oh... thanks for the info. AutoXCooper. Here's what I know: I'm not going back on the track with the ridiculous shuddering I experienced last weekend. It's going to get fixed before my next event, which might be July 4/5. How will it get fixed? I don't know yet.

mb

 

I would love to try your track only pads and compare them to the Hawk HT10s that I run.

I especially like your comment that most MINI drivers find the XP8 or XP10 work very well for track events.

Many MINI drivers also think the HP Plus is a good track pad, which after your first weekend you realize they cannot handle it. Even Blues have been toasted with a good spirited weekend at the track, so with your comments above I would love to be a guinea pig and see if your BEST track pad without iron can handle it.

I still run stock brakes so this would be a great test, and I have to believe you can spare a set of fronts and rears for a test like this?

 

lots of thoughts here. please place yourself in one of the following two groups:

I go to the track a few times a year

I treat my car like it owes me money and i want it now!

Ok, now that we've established this. don't feel a lesser person cause you not a track rat, just use my advise as you see fit.

if you're new or new-ish don't blow money away on this til you know you have an addiction and you can get away with it. I recoment two years. If you're OK with that, lets have at it.

If you only do a few a year, you are a wise person and have your goals on point or a controling significant other.

 

I've used Carbotech 10's Front and read for two years. It's are the only pad that has worked for me at a small track thats very tuff on brakes. It also makes a good daily driver pad. Good initial bite (they work without having to be hot) and they still work well below 12deg in the winter!!

 

Bluesmini - is it possible to be in the middle of your two groups?

I try to get out 5-7 times a year, and when I do, I drive the car as hard as physics and my physical limitations (talent or lack there of) will allow me.

My first track day with the Wilwoods (last year) was incredible. Now I have this nagging shuddering and just want it to be taken care of. I'd hate to have to switch to 16in wheels for better cooling. Hopefully I can figure out a way to get ducts into the aero front bumper.

mb

 

Went out to try to bed the pads and get rid of the shudder - no such luck. Now it is only really bad when slowing from over 75 mph. I even found minuscule (barely visible, not even sure if they're really cracks) cracks in the rotors. Now what!?

mb

 

Get a Scotchbrite pad and scrub the rotors--take them off the car if need be. Failing that, bite the bullet and get new ones and some good pads...I've been using PF97s in front for the track and they've been great.

Don't forget about the fluid--get some Motul or equivalent.

Gary

 

i've got lots of micro-cracks on my rotors. until they get to half an inch or so you can beat on them. i recomend get some now and have them ready. cryo-treat if you'd like.

it sounds like you're in the same group as me. you need a daily driver and a track car. I can't afford both so i make my MINI a nasty mix of both with a slight lean toward track car.

 

Yea - I don't daily drive it anymore, so things that aren't friendly for the street are OK with me. Glad to hear the micro cracks aren't a big deal.

Gary - thanks for the tips; I will try that. I already run ATE Super Blue. What is a PF97? Does it fit the Wilwood Dynalite caliper?

mb

 

Talk to these guys: http://zeckhausenracing.com/
They know track and race pads and brakes. And they are in NJ.

 

Super Blue is fine; just be sure to change it at some point...if you're doing 7 events I'd change it once during the season, or when your pedal starts feeling mushy. PF97s are Performance Friction pads. I run stock calipers so I really don't know if they'll fit yours. And yes, don't worry about the cracks in the rotors.

Gary

 

Looks like an excellent resource - thank you.

mb

 

I was running the Ferodo DS2500s, front and rear, up at The Glen for the Trackmasters event, in fact I still have not removed them. Boy are they noisy on the street! I am running the stock rotors and calipers with Motul RBF 600 fluid and stock hoses. I was going to run the ATE Blue but someone from Helix, or wherever it was that I got the Ferodos from, told me that Motul was better.

I had installed them a few days prior to leaving so that I could bed them in before I got there. A couple of late nights to do some bedding-in and everything worked out great. No problems with fade at all.

Innitially I was expecting considerable wear of both the rotor and pads. Inspection during and after the event showed minor pad and rotor wear. Measurments of the rotors showed only minor wear, less than 0.2mm. Still smooth with no concentric rings. No material transfer, no pusations.

Very happy with the brake performance. Will be sticking with Motul and Ferodo for my next track event. The balance of the cars was very good with the anti-lock brake system only kicking in once or twice for the whole weekend. I kept exploring how deep into the corner I could go. The answer was much deeper than I thought.

 

The biggest thing that is going to prevent this is proper COOL DOWN time. No ducts, no pad changes or such. Cool down is critical. If you're still pounding the course after the checkered flag you're asking for problems.

Most problems occur post braking, not during the braking event so your cool down lap and parking is going to be a greater issue. (regardless of what brakes are in use) If pulsation problems arise after you've been at the track all day that proves it. If it were immediate issues the pulsation would be there on the first session when you were driving and the rotors were reeeally hot.

What happens here is that coming off track the brakes are still hot. When you park the pads become heat soaked and the binding agents in the friction materials break down and bond to the rotor as it cools. Keeping this temp below a "critical mass" state is key. Larger rotor of course don't run as hot so there's an advantage there.
Ever see guys push a car about a foot after it comes off track? Wonder why? To keep the pads from becoming heat soaked in one spot on the rotor.

 

Mark another local place for pads (I even narrowed it down to wilwood pads for you):

http://offcambermotorsport.com/ocm/c...,35/Itemid,26/

I've met Mo at a couple GVC events at the glen very cool guy and knows his stuff that and his prices are hard to beat.

also for a note the PF 97's are the "older compound and apparently throw off some nasty dust (the wheel finish attacking kind), the 01's are the newer compound (I've used them on my E30 and they are excellent) and the dust is much more manageable (cleans up like a Hawk HT-10)

 

None of those will fit any of the Wilwood kits for the MINI however. Not the TCE kits either.

 

No prob didn't know what calipers you put in your kits (I'm a cheap bastard and am not afraid to change pads so I use stock brakes and track pads; that and honestly can't say that I've ever overheated them or had fade/build up problems, I just throw out $25 E30 rotors every 4-5 weekends...), they also carry more than they list on the website (I've ordered dtc-70 rear's for my e30 which is not listed on the site) so a phone call/email would probably net you what you need...

 

todd very accurately described my cool down procedures....including rolling the car after a few minutes in the pits. my other track rat friends also follow this procedure and none of us have had problems. we may be on to something here.....

 

I'm not sure if you can get the 01 compound for the MINI....the 97 dust is not bad unless it gets wet--then it is hellish to get off. After a track day I find the nearest wand wash and blast the wheels clean--it really helps.

Gary

 

Yeah that's the wheel attacking dust I was referring to basically from what I've been told the dust rusts to the wheel if it gets wet. I'm not sure if there is a stock pad shape R53/R56 fitting for the 01 compounds, I've only used them on my E30, but apparently PF has a new 06 compound in the works, essentially its supposed to be a longer lasting version of the 01, sounds intriguing...

 

I didn't find it quite that bad, but one time it was really on there and took some elbow grease to get off using one of those light-duty Scotchbrite pads and WD-40. Keeping the wheels waxed with Rejex or Nufinish really helps too.

 

yeap!

actually i get really pissed off if I take the checkered at the half way point instead of the start/finish line as I don't get a full lap of cool down, but I do think that moving the car a few feet up or back helps keep the rotors cooling evenly instead of being wedged between two heating bricks called pads.