I work for a Hawk distributor, and they are trying to get into a market where one can drive your vehicle to the track, go lapping, and go home, all on the same set of brake pads. Ferodo does have the DS series of brake pads, which are pretty competent, but up until now, Hawk has had the HP+ or the Blue. The HP+ is not enough pad, and one cannot drive on the street with Blues.

I am trying to gauge the interest for this type of product, as we do need to make a larger initial order per pad and friction material combination.

Anyone interested? I still have to get firm pricing, but this is just a feeler for now.

 

I have used HAWK products all the way up the line, and I do not think there is any pad that will handle the heat of true track time, along with the lower temps seen on the street and still be enough pad for street driving.

I have used the HP Street, HP +, Blues and not any of those handled a two day HPDE. I killed all three types in 1 weekend. The car has Stainless Steel lines, ATE Blue fluid, stock rotors.

Currently I use the HT-10s and swap them a day before the event and they have been awesome!

Don't think anyone can come up with a HIGH Heat track pad that works for street, they just have two totally diiferent purposes.

 

I would agree for the most part. It is like asking an R-Compound to work in the winter. But, the newer materials are able to handle a wider range of temperatures than the older compounds. I am a little surprised that you wore through a set of the Blues in a weekend, but if you are going quickly, then you obviously need more pad.

The new material will be able to run at higher temperatures than the Blues, and almost as high as the HT-10s, with the low temperature capabilities of the HP+.

 

if you send him a set, i'm sure that he would be glad to test them for you! (he is a buddy, who will be on track this weekend w/ me)

 

I have to agree with LgEnf, as much as this would be a great idea I think you are making too many compromises in order to get something that tries to be all things for all people. between my E30 and R53 I've used every hawk product from HPS & HP+'s to HT-10's and DTC-70's and think when they are used for the right application are fantastic products. The problem is when you try to stretch the application too far, which is what I feel is the problem with Hawk's combo pad the HP+. The HP+ probably comes pretty close to being a dual purpose product (as long as you keep it with street tires), but you really have to put up with it, they squeal and dust like crazy , that and if you really start to push them (as anyone who progresses up through the DE ranks does) they will fade. Too me its an aggressive auto-x pad (plenty of cold bite and good modulation if not pushed too far) should be treated as such, asking it to be a competent track pad or street pad is starting to stretch its capabilities. Ultimately for me it makes more sense to run HPS's on the street and switch to a full track pad (HT-10 or DTC-70) for DE's

With that said, any combo pad no matter how advance the compound I feel will still leave a compromise somewhere and will still fall short of what a full track pad can do so I see no use for such a product. That's not to say there aren't people looking for a product like this, but if I had to guess they'd be people new to DE's and would probably use them as a first set of track pads on their way up the DE ladder only to transition to a more aggressive product later, hurting repurchase rates (to be honest I've bought one set of HP+'s and they will be my last, I'll stick with HPS and HT-10's from now on). Now if Hawk is positioning the product as this sort of "gateway/transition" pad and is willing to accept (and price it as such as well as improving on what the HP+ can offer) this it might not be a bad way to go to get people in the door and using a Hawk product and not necessarily this all things to all people product.

Just my two cents, take from it what you may...

 

I've tried the HP+ on my MCS. The fronts lasted two track weekends and then were gone. Now I'm using EBC Yellow and these appear to no be wearing out as fast.

I have HPS on my 914. Yes they are very dusty, but they have lasted much longer on that car. Most likely because it doesn't weigh very much. When it is working, I don't drive much in stop-go traffic so I put up with the compromise and watch out for my braking distances. On recommendations from other forums, I've purchased Porterfield pads for this car when the Hawks are worn through (car is currently in pieces due to engine, electrical, and suspension upgrades) as the Pfields are supposed to be better suited dual use on a 914. We'll see

 

There seams to be a gap between pads that can be used on the street and those track only pads that are not recommended for street use. If someone could help bridge that gap (although it would still be a compromise), I'd welcome that. I know some people change pads at the track, but I am not planning to go to that extreme, so I would welcome a new compromise pad that leans a bit more to being more track worthy.

 

I have Ferodo DS2500 for street and track. They work very well, but are very dusty - like stock.

 

I don't need pads yet, but I've been reading and the two that stand out for street/track leaning a bit more toward track seam to be Ferodo 2500 or Carbotech Panther Plus (now called AX6 I think).

 

Obviously every pad is going to be a compromise. If there were no compromises, each manufacturer would make one friction material. The idea here was to see if a type of customer existed that was not willing to change brake pads at the track, but wanted to go lapping, and do Driver's Education.I personally change pads at the track, and use Blues or HT-10s, going from my HP+s that I normally use for autocross and street duty. The older technology pads had more corrosive material in them, and tended to be much louder than the newer materials. A Hawk Blue has been around for over 15 years. I hope that none of us are naive enough to think that the brake manufacturers have not been working on newer materials.Regardless, I will continue to change pads at the track, until I get to try out this new compound. I was just hoping to see if there were enough casual HPDE guys interested to warrant that Hawk make a pad for our cars, so that there was a relatively quiet street pad, with some capabilities at the race track. People use the Ferodo line, so I assumed that there would be interest, considering the lower cost.If there is enough interest at some point, we may have an alternative available for us to use.

 

Mark, I did 2 HPDE's last year, just did another one this past weekend, and plan on doing six a year from here on out. I have learned quickly that compromise pads on a long track just don't work (short tracks you can get away with it, but not on anything with long straights and lots of threshold braking). Its the major reason I'm having a Wilwood kit put in on monday--hopefully for improvement on the fade issue, as I'll be able to switch pads in seconds. I think this is a MUCH better way to go than a street/track pad combo, and I think anyone who is doing more than an occasional HPDE will come to that conclusion quickly.

A compromise pad is going to be rougher on the rotors for every driving, and not good enough on the track during HPDE's IMHO; personally I think there will be a very small niche for such a pad. Just my .02, I could be totally off...

 

just for the record....the carbotech bobcats are not for the track. glazed mine after one hpde. yes, i know they're not track pads, i got them to replace the oem's. i'm going to sand the bobcats a little and keep them for the street. getting xp8's for the track

don't repeat my mistake

 

my .02 on dedicated track pads.....if you have made the decision to run r-comps, it is time to run track-only pads. this is the only way to make use of the additional grip available. the wheels will be off any way, and it doesn't take long to change pads (at least after the first couple of times). track-only pads w/ street tires will just lead to ABS kicking in. tire grip is the limit at this point. you cannot fade/overpower the brakes.

 

Sorry for the late respond... just recently discover this part of the forum.
I know number of us in Seattle area would be very interested in Track/street combo pad. There are four of us routinely track our cars, at least once a month. We all use Ferodo DS2500... it works great on the track, not the hardest bite, but very stable through wide range of temperature. Works well on the street as well. The only thing not good about it is the price, at ~$160 a set for front.

It would be good to have another alternative to play with.

 

agreed

 

OEM pads and street pads are not good track and running them there you risk major brake failure and damage.

If you want something with better bite, same or better temp range at about the same price, that is more rotor friendly think about the Carbotech XP8 or XP10. If all four of you want them and I ship them to the same place, I'll make sure you get a good deal.

 

I'm glad to see the end of this thread returned to the OP's original question: If HAWK developed a NEW PAD that could double as a track pad and street pad, would anyone be interested?

Well, if you can have one pad that does the job of two, of course we would be interested. Who likes to changes brake pads? I bet there would be a lot of people who would like this functionality.

A lot of people, who are probably not running R-comps and who haven't been doing this very long will try the Ferodo DS2500s on the track and the street. In spite of the fact that they are dusty (SteveS), cant handle the higher heat of the track (Naysayers likely running R-comps) or expensive (Seattle Crew), people still buy them for this purpose. If you can make a pad that can work on the street and the track, would I like to avoid changing brake pads .. yep.

If you could make a pad that could handle the high heat and pressures generated on R-comps and still handle the low heat application of street driving, you'd make the perfect pad and corner the market.

While I doubt you'd make the perfect pad, I'll buy your combo pad if it cheaper, better, or less dusty than the Ferodo's.

-Jamie

ps Dustin --- what do you think of the Carbotech's as a dual pad?

 

i'm putting my xp8's on this week and will give ya my 0.02 on this question as well

 

Hello Dr. Phatcity,

I have many customers running the XP8 and XP10 as the only pad on and off the track. The only downside of doing this is, dust about OEM, life of pad and under lite braking, ie stop and go traffic, they make some noise. All of which are easy to manage if you are willing to manage.

 

I am one of those customers. I use XP10 and XP8 for both street and track. Just did 5 days at Watkins and about two weeks street. Lots of anti-squeal works to quieten them down. But there is still a lot of dust. But I am still one happy customer. Highly recommend both Carbotechs and Dustin. Cannot go wrong.

 

thx for the reccommendations for a dual pad ---- I'm likely to go with the carbotech's from dustin.

I'd still be willing to check out the OPs pads...

 

well the xp8's were great on the track. no fade at all. but i changed them as soon as possible because of the noise on daily driving. i live in a suburban/urban area and have lots of starting/stopping.....i just couldn't handle the noise. also, there is more dust vs. oem.

my solution was a set of dedicated track pads and rotors. yes, more $, but really no trouble at all to switch out. should last me 'till that hawk daily driver/ track pad comes out

 

Thanks for the feedback OX .... did you run 8's all around of 10's in front 8's in back?

Sounds like we found another person waiting for the track/DD pads

 

i ran xp8's in the front, and stock pads in the rear.

 

FWIW, Porterfield R4's work great in the front and the back as a DD/Track pad... They're pretty daggone quiet on the street, great on the track. They do dust, though, as any more aggressive pad is going to do. If you like keeping your wheels clean, you'll need to wash 'em more often.