Alright so I have been losing some sleep over this question, so an answer would be appreciated! After watching OG's amazing video, I always applied pressure (about 15 lbs worth or enough to make it orbit about once every 1.5/2 seconds, like on the video) to the LC pads with great results. However, someone on the forum said that the weight of the PC should be enough when using the LC pads from DetailersParadise (all variable contact). What makes me think this is wrong is because of the shape of the pad; in order to use the full surface of the pad, wouldn't I have to apply pressure to force the center of the pad into contact??? Am I over analyzing this??? Please, someone help!

 

bascially the orbit will stop spinning when the same amount of force
is applied to the near corners of the pad.

that doesn't mean you have less force on the paint, it just means
that the force is concentrated in that one point so you dont need to
push as hard.

 

I really don't think it is a life or death issue. I use very little added pressure over the weight of the PC most of the time. But when it comes to curves I add more pressure to get the pad into the curve. I don't think you will damage anything or mar your paint even if you follow OG's method.
My DP white pads are not convex, but rather flat, as is my black pad. I think the orange pad has a curve to it but I seldom use it. I do have a 4" white pad that is convex, but still the weight of the PC is enough to flatten it out.

 

Absolutely ditto what Ken says!

It's true... it can be a little confusing. Although Richard's DVD is awesome and very helpful, you do have to keep in mind that he is using a completely different pad and polish system.

With the Meguiar's pads, you do need to add pressure.

With the Lake Country pads (& most other pads), you do not add pressure at all (well, sometimes a little but not usually and when you do only a very little bit), regardless of whether or not you have the VC (variable contact) or flat style LC pads.

As Ken said, adding pressure will stop the plate/pad from spinning. The PC, being "dual-action," utilizes both the vibrating and orbiting movements it creates. If you stop it from orbiting, then you stop it's unique effectiveness. The plate/pad must spin if it is going to do much of anything. It will always vibrate, but in most cases the vibration alone is not enough to be effective.

Here are some tips:

• Make "tick" marks on your plate so you can see whether or not it's still orbiting. Often, the vibration of the PC makes it very difficult to accurately assess whether or not the plate is still moving. Even if you aren't intentionally adding pressure, you have to hold on to the PC and so this creates some pressure that can accidentally be too much. Adding tick marks to your plate is really the only way you can visually be assured that your plate is still orbiting. Here's a photo of such tick marks:

• For the most part, hold the PC on the paint with only enough pressure to move the PC around and not drop it. If you really want to work a spot with an abrasive, you can add a small amount of pressure. *Just watch your tick marks to make sure they are still moving.* You'll find that you can add some pressure and the plate will still spin... you just have to make sure it doesn't stop or slow down to almost nothing.
• Set your PCs speed to somewhere around 4 or 4.5 to start with. Although each enthusiast will find his/her favorite speed, this is the speed that we have found to be perfect for almost every use and task. Remember this too... with diminishing abrasives like the Prima polishes and most other high quality polishes today, the speed and intensity work in a counterintuitive way: Increase the speed to force the abrasives to break down more quickly (read: if you need them to be finer and less abrasive). Decrease the speed to force the abrasives to break down more slowly (read: if you need them to stay larger and more abrasive). Most people do the opposite, thinking that by increasing the speed of the PC then they are increasing the abrading. It's actually the opposite!

And yes, the yellow and orange VC-style LC pads are conclave in order to focus the natural pressure of the PC to the outer edges. This is a "cheating" way to effectively add pressure without adding pressure to the PC itself and thereby stopping the orbiting action.

I hope that helps!

-Heather

 

This is very true... although you will lose considerable effectiveness if you add lots of pressure to the LC pads, you will not burn your paint by adding pressure. The PC and even an abrasive yellow pad will not burn your paint. You will likely result in some hazing due to the abrasive level of the yellow pad, but that's just part of the necessary process when abrading at that level. It has nothing to do with the pressure.

So, it's safe to add pressure to the PC with the LC pads but it is not effective to do so.

-Heather

 

So much to learn... so much time... Thanks Heather and all contributors. I put tick marks on it the first day I had it (too hard tos see when it's spinning).

 

Does one have to apply pressure with sonus pads?

mb

 

You would normally treat Sonus pads in the same way... little to no pressure.

-Heather

 

Heather.,...in your post #4 above, does this appy to Zaino Z-PC with the LC white pad.....set the PC to 4 or 5?? and also little or no pressure?

thanks

 

Wow - I'm still learning stuff. That's perfectly logical. But definiitely counterintuitive. I know I've cranked up the speed a bit and wondered why it wasn't working faster...

 

While there is debate over "the perfect speed" using any wax or polish system, we have used Z-PC with the PC set at about 4.5 with good results. We've used Z-PC with both the white pad and the orange pad at this speed.

Yes, little to no pressure for sure with Z-PC and the white pad. Basically, anytime you use the PC and the Lake Country pads (or LC pads that are private labeled as something else) you should use little to no pressure as a general rule.

-Heather

 

I know what you mean! It's the kind of thing that makes perfect sense once you hear it but it's not what you'd think of before you're told otherwise. I had the exact same reaction when I was first taught this.

-Heather

 

I'd like to add my own comments to this...

For quite awhile, I've been using the Meguiar's system. It features a fairly soft pad, compared to the stiffer Lake Country pads--which Prima uses, as well as many other companies.

The makeup of these pads is such that you need to apply pressure to get them to work properly. Quite a bit of pressure in fact--almost to the point of bogging the PC down.

The pad rotation is less critical in the Meguiar's system--it's mostly there to remind you not to exert too much pressure.

However, use this same methodology on the Prima system and you will be pretty disappointed.

With the Lake Country pads, you're trying to fully utilize the spinning pad to do the work to remove swirls and defects.

It's this reason that people recommend the weight of the machine or slightly less to get the best effect. It's all about pad rotation.

Which is better? Well the Prima system requires less effort since you don't have to press on the pad, but you do need to be more careful about how you hold the polisher to always ensure that the pad is spinning freely--so holding the polish can become an exercise is gently lowering and slightly raising the polisher on the paint to get the best performance.

To me, they are both good system with different ways of achieving similar results.

Richard..still mastering Prima polishes...

 

Thanks for all of the replies. I went out and messed around with Epic and a clean Jeep just to get used to applying no pressure. My-o-my it is easier... Thanks again everyone.

 

FWIW, no matter what system you use, Meguiar's or Prima, when applying a wax, you don't apply pressure.

 

What do you mean by "you people"? Is this a Don Imus moment?

I actually end up somewhere in the middle; not as much pressure as OG's DVD recommends but slightly more than the weight of the machine. It helps me keep the pads centered on the disk as well as helps prevent sling. Oh and I still put my wax on by hand only because I have more control (you may recall I refuse to tape ) and I can get it every bit as thin as by the PC.

 

Oops, that was supposed to be either "You" or "People" but not both...

 

Excellent thread. I have always wondered about this because my PC will stop spinning with very little pressure, and yet OG has always looked like he is pushing his pretty solidly.

 

Glad you found it helpful!

In fact, OG and I probably should've posted something about this before to avoid confusion with the differences between the two systems.

Thanks to Brendan for posing the question for us to answer!

-Heather

 

Haha no problem. Pulled our 325i in for a QD (thanks to Slick) and my dad pointed out a new scratch on the car. I thought for sure I would need a cutting pad or rotary to fix it (it was bad) but the yellow pad and cut, followed by white and Swirl, then white again and Amigo took the scratch completely out. Re Epic-ed the spot and it looks brand new! Thanks for the pointers DP and OG!

 

That's awesome! I love it that you just went to town on it and saw how easy it is to fix something like that with the right tool(s) for the job (not to mention technique too!).

The the problems that require a rotary and/or wetsanding are really very few and far between when you have the PC, some good abrasives and the LC pads.

Your process was perfect... but I don't need to tell you that because your results already spoke for themselves. Nice work.

-Heather

 

I decided to wait for Heather to see how she would respond, and then I can follow--in case you haven't noticed.

Agreed, glad you have found a process that works for you.

It's true that with the right pads and chemicals, you can reduce the need for the rotary quite a bit--I'm still trying to see where that line is for me, but for the moment, I can't give up the rotary--it's fast and thorough, though I find that with Prima, I can get pretty close results with just the PC and pads too.

The one thing that people probably don't realize about the differences between the PC and the rotary is that:

1.) The rotary is faster to remove defects, but you also need to follow it with a PC to remove any defects the rotary caused, so it becomes a mandatory 2 step process.

2.) The rotary splatters product everywhere, so cleanup is mandatory, and taping is essential as well.

So consider yourself lucky if you can do the work without a rotary because although the buffing may be slower, the overall time savings may be greater since there is less prep and after processing.

Richard

 

OG- You big cheater! You just want me to write all the long stuff so you can get out of it!

Ditto on OctaneGuy's comments about the rotary- all around.

-Heather

 

Pun intended??? Sorry I am way overenergized (got my dorm assignments and college is sinking in.) The car looks awesome and my hard work may have earned me a night in the Bimmer. Yay for cool dads...

 

good to hear mcdbrendan

where are you going?