When discussing various waxes/sealants/polishes, you'll see a lot of talk comparing the "depth" or "gloss" provided by a particular product. This can be confusing, but there's a pretty simple explanation.

Waxes, polishes, and similar treatments are judged both on "Distinctness of Image" (how crisp and accurate the reflections are), and "depth", which is simply how deep and rich the finish looks.

As an example, take a look at a piece of sterling silver flatware and compare it to a piece of metal that's been chrome-plated. The chrome piece will probably be smoother on a microscopic level, be "shinier" (more gloss), and will have more-accurate reflections. But the silver piece will have a luster and depth that that chrome piece won't.

Which way you decide to go with your car is a matter of personal preference. The general guideline is that synthetics like Zaino, NXT, and Menzerna will be glossier and have better Distinctness-of-Image, while Carnauba waxes will have better "depth", but not last quite as long. For my light cars, I like to use synthetics because you'll never get a whole bunch of depth with a light-coloured car anyway, and the extra gloss and longevity of the synthetics are a nice bonus.

But for very dark cars, or anything with either a lacquer topcoat or a polyurethane clearcoat that's been wet-sanded, the carnauba can be worth the extra effort when it looks like you could dive into the paint afterwards.

 

Well I just use Klasse w/P21S Carnauba on top. So I got em both covered ehh

 

I've found that putting a Carnauba on top of a synthetic dulls (fuzzes?) the reflections somewhat, although it does improve the depth a little. Plus, when the carnauba wears off, you've still got the protection from the synthetic. That's probably what I'd do for a darker car that I knew wasn't going to be treated again for six months. For a lighter car in the same circumstances, I'd just do the synthetic and bag on the carnauba entirely.

 

The Klasse & P21S work very well together. IMHO, the refections are not dulled at all. Here is my Mini all shined up reflecting the neighbors cars all the way across my yard


& my truck parked right beside it

 

Those really ARE some sharp reflections, bamatt ! I am impressed. I'll have to see if I get similar results from Prima Epic on my CR Cooper. I used NXT last time and while it was very reflective, I've heard lots of good things about Epic.

By the way, tell your neighbor to wash his windows, they're filthy !

 

depth and gloss...

i think it's more of a comparison between depth and shine.

I go for depth and richness of color than the surface shine.

 

Yep, that looks great - nice work!

Unfortunately, the subtle differences between carnauba-over-synthetic and straight synthetic don't always show up in photographs. I had to mask my hood into halves and do one half one way and one half the other way to really tell the difference, and even then, I don't know that it would have shown up in a photograph.

I did really notice a difference when I used Griot's Speedshine over Menzerna FMJ on my wife's Pepper White cabrio, but the reduction in pure gloss was more noticeable on her car because it's white. With a darker colour, the wax in the Speedshine might not have made a noticeable difference, or the increase in depth might have even improved the look somewhat.

 

True - in my explanation, "gloss" = "shine".

I like depth and richness as much as the next guy, but for some colours (whites, silvers), you're just not going to get very much of either one compared to what you can get with a black or a dark blue, but you sure can pump up the surface shine!!

 

^^ try SprayOn wax over your polymer. it looks fantastic over NXT on my
silver G35C.

i didn't want the shiny look of bare NXT, the SprayOn wax kinda like put
a filter over it. like DolbyC. ok, who the hell remembers cassette
tapes? lol

 

yah, but too much shine is too much shine and ends up looking
like a plastic shine imho... no?

 

Ohhhh I dunno but I am a girl & we like sparkly shiney things

 

ok, before some smartass comes back and tells me DolbyC is not
actually a filter filter but rather a frequency booster, i already know
that! i am a Nakamichi owner.

 

Ah, say no more... For those that have never owned any Nak equipment, the designers are fanatics to say the least. Here's an example:

For a long time, Nakamichi didn't offer auto-reverse on their home cassette decks, even years after it became standard fare on other brands. (this is where the tape would play side "A", and then automatically reverse direction and play side "B".)

The reason was, they found that it was impossible to have the magnetic head aligned perfectly with the tape during forward playback, then when the tape reached the end, flip the head 180 degrees and keep it perfectly aligned while the second side of the tape played, which is how all of the other brands implemented "auto-reverse".

When they came out with the Nakamichi "Dragon", they finally offered auto-reverse. Their solution? When the tape reached the end of the first side, the cassette player automatically ejected the tape, flipped it around, and re-inserted it so that it could play the second side without having to reverse the motors or move the read head!

 

As you said it doesn't matter as much on a lighter vehicle but I saw the Mini after I Klassed it & then after I applied the carnauba on top of the Klasse & the carnauba definitely added to my finish in a big positive way
will do

 

jep. my cassette deck sounded better than most CD players out on
the market at the time... only con was tape dropouts 1:1 speed was
just not fast enough. ive since moved onto AKAI recorders, then
DAT afterwards. DA30MkII's. then my amature music
days seized... to this car hobby.

so you know how **** i can be on my hobbies. i was running
beta DAW systems for Emagic for free...

 

Well, it certainly looks great. Do you notice a visual difference between carnauba-over-Klasse and straight carnauba, or did you just layer the two for Klasse's added protection?

The hot orange cabrio I'm hopefully working on this weekend would probably gain some depth from carnauba, being medium-dark and metallic, so I'll see which the owner prefers. It's definitely getting the FMJ, since I don't know how often she'll be treating the car, but I may top half of the hood with wax and let her make the choice.

 

Thank you. I do feel that the shine popped much more after I added the carnauba over the Klasse but I did use the Klasse all-in-one for added protection & then carnauba for added shine. This spring I am going to do Klasse all-in-one then a few layers of Klasse Sealant Glaze topped off with carnauba. That should get me deep, shiny, & even more mirrorlike ehh I like the P21S carnauba because it is soooo easy to apply, can be done in 15 minutes & doesn't mar your black bits (Klasse doesn't mar either). I plan to do do the Klasse every 6 months for added protection & the P21S monthly for added shine.

 

I'm thinking about doing something similar with Menzerna. Right now, if there aren't any defects to remove, I'm using their Final Polish II followed directly by the FMJ. But, they also have a Finishing Touch Glaze that can be applied between the polish and the FMJ, so I'm going to see if that adds anything visually. Since my three cars that I spend the most time on are a Pepper White MINI, a Cool Blue MINI and a "Pastel White" 1972 Mercedes, I probably wouldn't gain much from a wax on top of everything, but I do have a Ducati motorcycle that's red, white and green and has been meticulously wet-sanded, so I may try the carnauba top-coat on that this spring in search of some extra depth.

 

It's kind of back to that whole "silver versus chrome" thing. Just as some people like the super-shiny tires, while others prefer a richer semi-gloss finish. I like the semi-gloss finish on my tires, but if I'm dealing with a paint that's never going to have a huge amount of depth, I'd rather go with the shine and distinctness-of-image from the synthetic topcoat and not top it with carnauba.

But, it sure is nice to have all these options!

 

about the nakomichi cassette deck that would eject, flip, then reinsert.....didn't that figure prominently in some murder mystery movie in the 70's? where the killer taped a conversation for the police who were listening outside the door, but then half way through, of course, the conversation stopped while the tape flipped and there went the killer's alibi.....or something like that ....does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

about the nakomichi cassette deck that would eject, flip, then reinsert.....didn't that figure prominently in some murder mystery movie in the 70's? where the killer taped a conversation for the police who were listening outside the door, but then half way through, of course, the conversation stopped while the tape flipped and there went the killer's alibi.....or something like that ....does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

Technically speaking isn't it the layering of the glaze that gives you the added depth & the final carnauba produces the extra shine hec I dunno & now that we have talked so much I am confused :impatient

 

that's true. my 06 civic is that new light blue color and it has a
hard time showing shine and high gloss. Prima Epic brought the
deep wet look. it's glossy but it's more wet than shiny. i think
im going to try Hydro over the Epic next spring which is suppose
to further enhance the wet look between washes.

 

The "depth" isn't really a result of layering, since when you're finished with the polish/glaze/wax, the total thickness of *everything* you've put onto the paint is not very thick it all - microns, in fact. The "depth" is an illusion based on the optical properties of the wax or sealant. This is where we would get into refraction coefficients and all that, but it's pretty boring.

The "shine" just comes from having a perfectly-smooth surface with all the microscopic, invisible-to-the-naked-eye imperfections in the paint filled in.

 

I think too that the perception has to do with the color and type of paint. On my PW, I just like a whole lotta shine because there's really not much depth to it anyway, being light colored and non-metallic. But on my husband's metallic sand colored Yukon, while it's still sort of light colored, you get a lot more depth - I'm guessing it's the metallic quality? Anyway, I think you can get different results with the same "systems" depending on the color and type of paint.