OK, here's a new one (at least for me, anyway- might be old news to you guys...)



The wife and thought it would be fun to make a set of magnetic racing "gumballs" for our Cabrio.. as you can see, they are fun indeed.

I put them on in the afternoon, then left them on overnight. The following day, I took the car to work to show a cooworker. Probably drove about 40 or 45 miles, all-told.

Then I went to pull the magnets off so I could wash the car, and noticed that when I lifted the BONNET gumball that it left a circle of what looked like moisture. I figured no prob- it must just be from the rain- maybe the fact that I put it on another sticker caused a tiny gap that water was forced into at speed.

Washed and detailed car and saw a problem- where the bonnet circle was, now the bonnet stripe and the hood now have a faint circular MARK that I cannot get off. Tried Turtle Wax Ice- no good. Tried a bit of Maguire's ColorX- it shined up the stripe very nice, but the mark's still there- it looks like a faint, slightly dull coffe cup circle, not darker, just a bit of difference in the surface sheen.

Anyone have any idea what happened here? My theory is that the magnet got so hot on the bonnet that the plasticized magnetic backing might have actually melted a bit- the mark is on the paint AND the bonnet stripe. Or, it could have been from the moisture that somehow got trapped beneath, but I'm not sure how that would have done damage after only a day.

Any ideas how to buff the mark out of the OEM bonnet stipe? Just a single pass with ColorX pulled off a surprising ammount of black onto my microfiber rag, and I don't want to polish a hole in it.

Thanks!

 

u should of waxed both bonnet/stripe 'n gumballs magnetic surface b4 layin' it down... but due to heat it may have happened anyways.
i run teh gravel guards on my MINI and it did sorta teh same thin'
i wouldnt do COLOR X if ur removin' that much material off, it could jus b slight oxidation tho....
might be a good idea to have a pro. diagnose it!!
i

 

Yes, I waxed the car and the back of the magnet before laying it down, and I always wipe the backs and apply to a freshly detailed surface so no grit is trapped beneath.

Interesting neews about the gravel guards... I was actually considering getting those. Was it damp underneath when you lifted them?

I've used magnets on my truck for YEARS and never saw anything like this- but this is the first time I ever put on on the bonnet.

 

It is the trapped moisture doing the damage It has been well established by several threads that static and especially magnetic applications trap moisture and damage the paint!

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...paint+moisture

 

no moisture, trust me im a bit **** so i looked fer that.........
but i feel that since these gravel guards may move around a bit then it could have scuff'd teh surface.
....also, euro paints r very finiky 'n soft.
im havin' sum clear 3M stuff custom cut to fit that area, i recomend u do this if u like.
i have it on one of my Vdubs(from factory) and it looks killer

 

Try using some 3M Swirl Mark Remover. I nearly had a coronary when magnets did the same thing to my MINI. Went to Pep Boys and bought a bottle of 3M Swirl Mark Remover... all it took was a dime sized amount and some very light buffing with a microfiber towel...use very light pressure... the marks should come out. There may be other products that work just as well at removing this type of "stain" (I do believe it is in fact trapped moisture) but this product worked for me. Afterwards, I threw away the magnets and swore to NEVER put a magnetic sign on my MINI ever again.

rock on,

-boognish

 

3M swirl mark stuff is great but i dont noe that i would use it on teh vinyl!?

 

There's another current thread about removing stains on bonnett stripes. They used Soft Scrub successfully.....no kidding!

 

I'll try that (cautiously). Thanks.

I can see why moisture got under it... Since I put the gumball on my boot stripe (which is not flush with the paint surface), the edges of the stripe left a tiny gap, and water must have been drawn up under by capilary action. The other magnets (on the doors) were dry and fine.

Bottom line- I'll only use the hood gumball in the dry. No problem. Or, I might just have a vinyl badge made- I like the number on the bonnet very much and would be happy leaving it there on a daily basis- it's so fun!

Weird about this though... I've used other magnet designs on other cars and never saw this problem. heck, I left a small magnetic flame on my wife's truck for THREE YEARS one time, just sort of peeling it off, wiping down the area with wax and slapping it back on, and when it finally cracked and I discarded it, the finish was perfect after a single buffing with Meguire's.

PS- I think that the Meguire's ColorX is very similar to the 3M swirl remover, right? I actually have both and like the 3M for deeper scratches as I recall- haven't used it in a while...

Thanks, guys!

 

The swirl remover sounds like a good first step.

I'd bet that there was a bit of grit or dust, either on the paintwork or on the back of the magnet. As the magnet slides around a bit while you are driving, it is grinding the grit into the surface of your paint.

I think that the Color-X is a ligher abrasive than the swirl mark remover. It also has fillers to help fill in the scratches, but these will come out w/ a few washes, so it's better just to get the problem solved than to just cover it up. It might be a good second step, after you remove the scratches w/ the swirl mark remover.

Do it carefully: apply a bit... rub 10 small circles or so... buff off w/ microfiber and inspect.... repeat as necessary.

The meatballs are cool... just make sure that both surfaces are very, very clean next time and maybe wait until you get to the track to apply.

 

Well, the Soft Scrub didn't TOUCH the mark on the stripe, and I'm sort of scared to dig deeper, lest I start rubbing off whatever makes the stripe black. Just a quick pass with the ColorX (I know it's not recommended, but I wanted to see what would happen) left black residue on the polishing cloth. Yikes!

And I can certainly say that it's NOT a grit issue- the Mini paint is succeptable to moisture, instead. I did an experiment, leaving on a meticulously clean tiny magnet on the lower panel (where I could buff it out after) and after 3 days, the magnet had moisture and a resulting dull spot in that location. The car was parked at the airport during this time, so I know it wasn't grit or vibration.

This is very dissapointing- does anyone know why you can leave a magnet on the surface of a Chevy Suburban with OEM paint for 2 years and get nary a mark, but the Mini clearcoat dulls down like this after a few days? What does that mean for the longevity of the paint? I've been detail spraying a few times a week and washing once a week- up till now that's all my car has needed, seeing as it's garage kept and only sits outside while I'm at work. Should I be using some sort of actual wax on top of the detailing spray?

Last, what about cling-type or vinyl graphics that use a film of moisture in the application step? Does this mean that if I decided to, say, apply ghost flames to my car's sides, and then I decide to remove them in a year that the paint would be terribly dulled due to the moisture used in the application step??

As always, thanks for the expert advice- you guys are the best!

 

Mind also melted? but they have left 2 marks down the hood the size i=of the stripes, what do I use to get this off? I'm have ones from Cooper Flags put on Friday and need to get this fixed.

Michael

 

I would pm octane guy he would knew what to do
he's a detail JEDI

 

You want to be extra careful when polishing any kind of printed vinyl. I personally wouldn't use Soft Scrub on any part of my car, decals included. Soft Scrub is an abrasive detergent designed to clean bathroom fixtures. Maybe the particles helped solve one persons problem, but I can assure you that I've also used M80 which contains microscopic diminishing abrasives and pulled swirls and defects from vinyl, while at the same time adding polishing oils to enrichen the vinyl, and this is much more gentle than Soft Scrub.

HOWEVER, I would never attempt this on printed vinyl because the ink just comes off.

ColorX is a cleaner wax. It contain some chemicals and some diminishing abrasives as well as polishing oils and carnuba wax. It does indeed remove swirls, instead of filling them in. However, some of the components may act as light fillers, and really the concept of fillers is completely misunderstood in the consumer detailing world.

Fillers aren't bad by themselves. How you choose to use them is what counts. If you've got paint that doesn't lend it self to 100% swirl removal, then doing 98% and filling in the remaining 2% is certainly more desirable than leaving those 2% swirls exposed, IMO.

Production detailers count on fillers to hide their lack of finesse when polishing out cars. They use products with fillers to minimize or hide buffer swirls, and defects they don't have time to remove. In that case, fillers might not be a pleasant thing to you. But whether a product uses them or not, really isn't something that needs to be made a big deal of. I mean if you use a product that contains some fillers, and it works for you, just use it often. Zaino users like to talk about the upteenth layers they've put on, yet people who complain about NXT durability say that one coat won't last 3 months...makes no sense to me..and sorry I've strayed off topic.....

If ColorX left black residue on your polishing cloth, you don't want to try buffing the stripe or cleaning it anymore. You might dress it with a product to even out any lightness/darkness issues but that's it.

Comparing MINI paint to Chevy paint is really like comparing apples to oranges. For a more similar comparison, how about comparing MINI to BMW paint? Paint systems vary from mfg to mfg. The thickness of clearcoat varies, as well as the quality of the painter, as well as the hardness of the paint.

BMW and Jaguar paint tend to be especially hard paints to buff scratches out of. Infiniti is very soft and difficult to get a flawless finish. Porsche paint tends to be very easy to polish out. My point is that worrying about the durability of your paint compared to Chevy paint really isn't even a fair comparison. Even just looking at body shape differences remember that unless you're painting a flat panel, that paint thickness will vary. The bonnet on the MINI is especially curvy, and paint thickness won't be consistent.

I just purchased an electronic paint thickness gauge. I'll take some measurements when I recieve it later this week.

re: Detail Sprays
If you've properly waxed your car, each time you Quik Detail, you're actually helping to further protect your finish. Although the act of quick detailing and rubbing a towel will cause quicker deterioration of your wax protection, constant quick detailing is much better than frequent washing IMO. A Spray Wax could be used every couple weeks if you're concerned about the protection.

re: static cling and vinyl
I had a static cling meatball on my door for 8 months. Through that time there was rain and sun, and when I removed it, the only thing that remained was a ring of wax on the edges of where the meatball was. Different MINI paints react differently to chemicals.

Take Pepper White, spray some quick detailer on a meatball, and let it dry in the sun, you very likely will end up with a brown stain that permeated into the clearcoat. I've never seen this on any other MINI paint colors. The only way you can know for sure what might happen is to do a little test spot. Maybe on the door jam or something inconspicuous.

Have you waxed the finish before applying your decals?

You might get a hold of a Porter Cable polisher and see if the dull area buffs out. They cost around $150, but will save you a lot of dough over what a professional will charge you to fix paint issues. And of course, my DVD wouldn't hurt to learn how to properly use the PC.

 

Were can I buy the dvd

 

^^ wait a minute... this was just an advertising campaign? jk jk

 

In the NAM store

http://store.northamericanmotoring.c...t=0&bestseller

 

Wow... I had no idea that not only was there so much difference in paints, but that DIFFERENT COLORED paint would react so differently to the same circumstances. Wow.

In reply to your question re: waxing, no I have never waxed my Mini. Washed it? yes, every week or two. Detail Sprayed it? Yep- a few times a week, actually. Waxed? Well, the car's still new basically, so I wasn't sure if I needed to, to be honest.

What spray wax would you recommend, Octane?

As for the Porter Cable polisher, is that one of the devices that, if used improperly, can actually buff your paint right off? I've heard horror stories on these forums, but honestly since lots of people speak in abbreviated shorthand in here (take the BC and than allpy a coat of PC27 PDQ, ASAP", etc. ) half the time I don't 100% follow all the details, I'm afraid.

For right now, I have a clay bar on my list of "To buy soon" supplies as well as a good spray wax (depending on Octane's recommendation). I have the ColorX, as well as Macguirre's wheel cleaner and dressing, their interior detailing spray and, of course, the Turtle Wax Ice exterior detail spray. Once I see about removing the last traces of the mark, I'll wax on/wax off. Should I be shopping for anything else beyond the above?

Thanks so much, Octane, for dropping in and making such complete comments.

 

The tools you speak of "if used improperly, can actually buff your paint right off" are generally rotary buffers. I've been keeping immaculate care of my cars for years, but I know that I don't know enough to trust myself with a rotary buffer (the head spins around, as if attached to the end of a drill).

A Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher (AKA: PC or PCDA) is a dual-action random orbit polisher... It freely allows the polishing head to spin but doesn't drive it to spin. It actually reproduces the orbits of a hand polishing of the finish, just with 4-6k cycles per minute and much less effort.

The PCDA is much more idiot-proof with 6 or 8-inch foam pads and medium to fine polishes, but better and better idiots are invented every day! Just from the quality of OctaneGuy's information and the reviews on the product, I would strongly recommend getting his DVD that is for sale here on NAM (linked above, I believe). My old Nissan Altima had a clear coat paint system everywhere but the B pillar (between the front and back door glass) where it was single stage paint. With a fairly abrasive compound and my PCDA, I stripped the paint off in about 5-10 seconds, but I was an idiot and didn't check the paint properly before polishing it out. I haven't found any single-stage paint on the MINI.

We do use a lot of TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) around here, but folks are pretty friendly most of the time. Just ask!

 

I may just invest in one of those... the Suburban I mentioned before is pretty heavily swirled, although occasional applicatons of a water;ess detail spray wax have kept the color fairly brilliant. Funny how swirl marks and such never bugged me before I got obsessed with keeping the Mini spotless.

$150 plus the cost of the DVD... I'll have to start saving. Plus, I can't WAIT to hear the wife when it arrives... "You bought a POWER TOOL to polish the car? And you want to watch a DVD that tells you how to clean it? It's a sickness I tell you... a SICKNESS!"

Maybe she's right.

EDIT- Popped over to Autopia (I've learned quite a few things over there) and found a very informative article on the PCDA.

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html

So, it began its life as a WOODWORKING tool? Now that's cool.

 

Agranger
Thanks for saving me the time. Good explanation!

ImagoX
Autopia has some good info, but if you want the best, from the guy who wrote a lot of the info that Autopia mentions, come on over to www.ShowCarGarage.com

Mike Phillips and myself run this site and you will find a wealth of info. Our DVD is the currently the only thing that helps us offset the time and costs of running the site, unlike Autopia that has waxes, polishes, and tools to sell you.

The PC will go a long way towards removing/reducing swirls. With the right pad and chemicals, you will make a night and day difference.

The rotary buffer that Agranger mentioned is much like a drill. The pad spins in a circular motion. The Porter Cable Dual Action polisher aka PC aka DA aka PCDA spins in an orbital pattern. The PC won't normally burn through paint. Not that it won't, but it's hard to do on our MINIs with clear coat paints. You can put all your weight on it for several minutes and it won't hurt the clear coat. With a rotary buffer it only takes seconds to remove paint down to the metal.

I bought a rotary buffer after about 2 years of using the PC. It's a completely different tool. Fast and powerful, but can be dangerous in the wrong hands!

Because the rotary buffer thins paint, if you try to remove a scratch and wear the clear coat down, and then forget about it, and try to remove the scratch again months later, you might just go through whatever clearcoat remains around that scratch.

I just purchased an electronic thickness gauge--normally sells for between $600 to $4000 depending on type. I found a cheapie for less than $200 on eBay which I'll be running tests on when it arrives tomorrow.

The PC is very safe for your paint, and it's been tested that the amount of paint removed is not measurable. Although the meter I bought measures down to .1 um, I will let you know what I find--our paint is measured in mil which are larger than um. I'm not an expert on this, but a friend told me this.

re: DVD
Check out www.AutoDetailingSolutions.com
They are one of our retailers for the DVD and he's been bundling the PC and the DVD together.

re: Sickness
Yes, there was a thread on Meguiarsonline recently talking about this "sickness" and who had it bad. It was pointed out that I fully detailed my MINI loaner car while my car was being serviced--not once but twice. LOL

re: PC Woodworking
Yep, polishing cars with the PC is fairly new--within the last 10 years. It's a great tool, but not perfect. There are certain manufacturers working on dedicated car polishing tools to replace the PC that will do it just as safe but with more effectiveness. I can't talk about that stuff though. But don't worry, from what I've seen they won't replace it anytime soon. No need to wait in other words--might be years before they figure it out.

re: Wax
Hmm, so you applied the magnetics without waxing your car? While the dealer does apply a wax, I would definitely apply a good wax on the car before putting anything that will scuff the paint. Not that it will prevent any scuffs, but it will help things on the paint move around more to minimize the damage. The coat of wax on our cars is microscopic. You can't measure it with a tool. You can feel it and depending on the manufacturer, you can usually see it by how it beads water--however note that some manufacturers intentionally make their waxes bead more than others while some prefer to make the waxes sheet water. Meguiar's prefers to sheet water, but it's often compared to Zaino which is high beading, and people say that look, because Zaino beads water, it's protecting longer. Durability and water beading are not intertwined.

I would highly recommend getting some wax on your car. If you're washing it weekly, then for sure. The wax debate is big here on NAM, so choose what works for you. My personal favorite is called M21 and now comes in a small 12 OZ bottle--used to come only in 64OZ jugs for professionals.

It goes on very easy and comes off easy, doesn't make the trim white, and it lasts a long time--I use it on all my customers cars. Many people compare the glossiness and slickness to Zaino as being very close. You can buy this from ADS--as I mentioned above about the PC. It will be available from more places soon. I assume even Autozone and PepBoys will carry M21.

My personal opinion on waxes is that there is more to getting a shine and beautiful finish than just choosing a wax. You can clay the finish to remove above surface contaminants. Things like tree sap and bug bodies, and things that have settled and bonded to your paint. Makes your paint feel rough and bumpy.

Our paint is porous. That means these contaminants can also seep into the paint causing blemishes that claybar won't remove. Similar to the idea of deep cleansing with a facial wash, there are paint cleaners. These go into the paint, and cleanse it. Meguiar's also polishes the paint to remove the swirls.

Once all this is done, you can protect it with a wax.

Meguiar's consumer line (Deep Crystal) has a 3 step system, but if you get the PC, get a quart of M80 (Mirror Glaze #80) with your PC and a wax.

Finally remember that our MINI paints consist of a basecoat and a clearcoat. A clearcoat is just like a clear version of the basecoat. It's paint, even though it's clear. That means that if your clearcoat gets scratched or dulled, it will limit the ability to clearly see the basecoat. What you want to do is make the clearcoat paint as transparent as possible so the basecoat and metallic flakes (if metallic finish) will POP. You do this by removing swirls, scratches, and defects with a paint cleaner.

re: Spray Wax
These are normally considered Booster waxes. They are applied as an "in- between" between full waxes since they don't offer the full protection of a liquid or paste wax.

Hope that's enough to get started.



Richard

 

ImagoX - I can personnally recommend Richard's DVD. Though I do not intend on getting a PCDA any time soon, the DVD was full of good info and helpful tips (plus you get to see a really nice Corevette). It was interesting to watch Mike do the first test section by hand and then see how much easier it was with the PCDA. Of course the Vette's paint was way different than our paint and I hope was in much worse condition than yours. Still for a big vehicle like our Expedition it would save a bunch of time.

If you are still looking for a good price on a PCDA check out Amazon, it was the best price I found but it was not packaged with any pads or polish.

Chuck

 

Mike... you detailed a loaner... TWICE?

I checked out the site and saw their packages. They have a link to the "Recommended Training DVD" in the package description, but it;s not clear if it's actually included in the package or not. Is it?

Thanks, guys!

 

Actually I'm Richard. Mike is my partner.

Yeah I detailed the loaner.
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ght=loaner+car

Call up ADS--Rick is the owner and ask him. He is very helpful or send him an email to meguiarsaz@***.net

If you let him know that I sent you (Richard Lin), he MIGHT do something nice for you. I've sent him lots of customers.

Minimaybee
Thanks Chuck for the kind words

Richard

 

Pretty much the same here: I never knew of all "this wax" stuff. I always thought a wash is a wash, and a wax a wax. I've been reading Meguiar's (the wax company) and Autopia's forum's for a few months "schoolin'" myself on this.

Worth the time and effort, imho.