Although I do really appreciate all the kudos on this thread, I do believe strongly that ultimately the "perfect" product or product line is a very individual choice. Everyone has different expectations... whether in terms of application style, compatibility, or the final look and beyond! Thus, there will always be different "winners."

I'm proud that so many find our company nice to work with. Believe me, when you run your own business, it's customer compliments that keep you going every day! That said though, there are many of our competitors who also do an excellent job of customer service. Sal Zaino makes an excellent product line and is an excellent technical resource. Zaino and Prima, although sharing some traits, are different... not better or worse than the other. Of course, there are things I personally like better about Prima... we made it the way we made it because that's what we like! We still use Zaino from time to time too.

My advice is to try them both! Then see for yourself which one you like better. (or just go for Prima and be done with it... )

-Heather

 

I always figured Zaino was for people who would rather add layers of wax to their cars than actually drive them.

The best things about Prima:

1. Detailer's Paradise's support of this forum.

2. 1-gallon jugs of Slick

3. The black finishing pad. I used it to apply Klasse AIO this weekend, and it was a dream.

 

Heather,

I appreciate your response. I believe I followed the directions OG has in his DVD and it matches up with what you posted. I did put a black mark on the backing disc of the PC so I could see how fast it rotates. I did work about a 2 x 2 area on the hood. I did work the product for at least a couple of minutes using the PC. I know I am new to using one so I didn’t want to take any chances.

I do not think there was a customer service failure on the part of Detailers Paradise. I understand it can be difficult judging someone over the phone in regards to how much help they may want or need. A phone call and text both limit and sometimes inadvertently change meanings/interpretations and can often times be misconstrued because the visual sense isn’t there. You can tell a lot about someone’s wants and needs by tone of voice, eye contact, and general body language (open or closed gesturing). Not everyone can be read quickly to determine what they really want out of a purchase.

You mentioned in your post about giving me the 15% discount before the sale actually started. I saw two posts announcing the discount, one in the announcements and then one in the detailing 101 forum. I saw the one in the announcement section first and I could have sworn it had stated that it started “tonight”, in the detailing 101 I saw that it did say Saturday. The discount was what made me choose to purchase such a large order from DP. I’ve been eye-balling a PC for several weeks and was poised to purchase one from Classic Motoring to take advantage of their discount system. By purchasing it from there, combined with my previous purchases from them, it would have put me over their first rewards threshold of getting a 5% discount on all future orders (they have it set up where after so much in lifetime purchases you accrue discounts on all further purchases, it starts off at 5%, then goes to 10% and I think it stops at 15%, I’d have to go back to their website to be sure). Getting back to the initial order, yes, I’d placed it that Friday night, I put in the discount code and it took the discount off of my total. If it hadn’t, I would have stopped and waiting until the following day to place the order.

I guess my post today was mainly driven by the fact that from reading other posts about DP, I was expecting Nick to handle my phone call today a little bit different. He didn’t need to give me or offer me anything other than, “oh, I’m sorry that you didn’t get the right product to do the job last week.” That statement does not admit guilt or fault on the part of DP. It does acknowledge the problem I faced and it does say that he is genuinely concerned about my wants and needs as a customer. After I made my comment about not getting something abrasive enough to do the job he didn’t ask me if maybe I needed Cut instead of Swirl. I interpreted the transaction as product-focused instead of customer-needs focused which is why I felt I received average customer service instead of exceptional.

By the way, I have not yet attempted any work with the PC on my wife’s Jet Black R53. I’ve been working on a red Kia Rio. Will I still try Prima to see if it will work for me once I get a more abrasive chemical, yes, I will. Will I still try Z-PC, yes, I will. I do appreciate all of the advice and instruction that I’ve gotten here on NAM (from direct responses to me and from just reading through the forums in general) and I also appreciate the tips you gave me when we talked on the phone a week ago.

Thank you.

 

Oh, one other thing I'd like to add, I think the Monster Fluffies are absolutely awesome, the dual pile MF buffing clothes are also quite nice .

 

Actually FWIW, the DVD techniques don't exactly match up with the Prima system at all. It was one of the reasons I disliked the Prima polishes when I first started using them. I was trying to use the Meguiar's methodology with the Lake Country pads and Prima polishes and not getting the results I expected, so I would always resort back to using Meguiar's.

The Prima system differs significantly from Meguiar's in that you don't apply pressure-in fact you apply the least amount of pressure to enable the pad to spin as freely as possible against the paint.

Also the fundamental concepts that differ are:

Meguiar's--One pad, many chemicals.

Prima--Several Pads, Several Chemicals.

No single polish or pad combination will necessarily transfer from one car to another. Just because I used an orange pad and Swirl on an M3 doesn't mean that it will have the same results on an Acura TL.

The amount of time necessary to get the work done, the amount of varying pressure, etc... are all crucial factors.

My DVD was made to show one method of polishing paint using a popular polishing system--Meguiar's Professional products and pads. It doesn't mean that someone using another system won't benefit from it. There are obvious differences and similarities and the DVD is a great starting point for anybody regardless of their chosen system, as long as the differences are understood.

Are you attending MITM?? If so, come on by my booth and we can brush up on your polishing techniques.

Richard

 

Thanks Richard. I wish I was but I'm not going to be able to make it. I wasn't exactly following the DVD verbatim, I wasn't using as much pressure as you were in the DVD, at least the black mark on the backing plate was spinning faster than in your DVD. When I applied enough pressure to slow it down to the point that it was in the DVD it felt like I was applying to much pressure. Other than that though I followed the general principles you put forth.

I washed and clayed, then went on to trying a test spot, I marked the backing plate to have a visual on the pad movement. Then from reading here on in the forums I selected what I thought would be the least abrasive chemical (Finish) with a slightly more aggressive pad (orange). I applied pressure even pressure along the PC, I did not screw in the side handle so I wouldn't apply pressure unevenly on the top of the PC. I worked a 2 x 2 area for approximately about 2 minutes, making several passes in different directions overlapping each pass by 50%. I would start off side to side then go up and down, then side to side, etc. After working the product in for a couple of minutes I stopped the PC, removed it from the surface and then wiped the chemical off from the bonnet.

I then repeated this same process with Amigo and the white pad. I did not put a sealant on at this point as I was curious to see how much of the defects I had gotten out of the paint. I removed the painters tape seperating out my test area and pulled the vehicle out into the sun light to discover that I hadn't removed as much of the defects as I wanted. So I stopped and did not continue any further.

I've said all along that I thought the problem with my first attempt was that I didn't have a chemical that was abrasive enough to do the job I wanted (the second sentence in my original post on the 28th of July). I still believe I'm on the right track and that I'm using the PC properly. I just need to find the right chemical/pad combination that works the best for that particular paint finish. I probably should have ordered the Prima kit so I would have had all of the Prima compounds instead of just getting the two least abrasive compounds. I could have experimented more on my own and probably not posted at all except to say that Prima worked great.

I know I need to continue to experiment to see what works the best for me, both in terms of chemicals and pads.

Once again, I appreciate all of the tips and advice in helping me to get this figured out. And once I have it figured out on my test vehicle I'll probably have to start all over again with our Mini's since they will have different paint, body style, etc. and thus require a different method of working with the PC to get the results I want.

I do have another question though, with Prima, once you use one chemical on the pad, can the same pad be used for another chemical in the Prima line later on (after cleaning) , or do you have to keep the pads seperated to be used only with that same chemical in the future?

 

Actually, thinking back on it, I did two applications of Finish with the orange pad, not just one. I wasn't sure I applied enough product the first time so I did it again before moving on to Amigo

 

Anyone?

 

Depends. The answer is usually no. You don't want to apply wax with a pad that has polish on it. You don't want to apply a finer polish with a more aggressive polish on that pad. You don't want to mix Epic wax with a pad that has another wax on it.

Devote one pad per product. Only have one or a few pads. Wash them after each use before changing products.

Finish is really so fine that I rarely use it. Swirl does everything for me. Using the orange pad and Swirl then finishing it off with the white pad and Swirl. When the orange pad and Swirl aren't cutting enough, I put it on my rotary buffer to get that last 10% out, then finish it off with my PC using the same pads and chemical.

Whether I'm using the PC or rotary, I'll do one pass--which consists of a number of passes until the product is broken down, wiped off, then inspected. Then I will do up to 3 to 4 more passes and if the results still aren't to my satisfaction, then I'll adjust my process. Frankly, two passes with Finish just isn't enough.

Richard

 

Thanks Richard. I only have one each of the various pads and I just wanted to make sure that after washing them it is OK to use a different product with them.

I should be able to make my next attempt tonight, this time with Swirl so I'm expecting significantly better results.

 

Good! Just make sure to do a small test spot--about the size of a microfiber towel. Make that spot perfect with as many passes as needed assuming proper technique. Since you have Finish, you might try doing a pass with Finish after you've used Swirl to see if there is any difference or not. That is--maybe 3 passes with Swirl and orange pad, and 1 pass of Finish with white pad (only if it looks like all that remains are ultra fine swirls).

When working out Swirls, the Orange pad and Swirl will get out the majority of them. After the deepest swirls are out, you might see some micromarring--rainbow looking swirls. These can be knocked out with either a white pad and Swirl or a white pad and Finish, before going to wax.

In the same way, you can see if Amigo with a white pad has any effect as well.

Richard

 

I had O.G.'s DVD, a virgin orbital polisher, Epic, and no experience. Flo was only six months old and didn't appear to have swirls/scratches. I was so confused as to what product I should use and was afraid to use a product that might degrade the finish. Called Heather to get advice on a polish. She told me that I didn't need to spend money on a polish at that time. She told me that Epic used with the white pad that came with my ROP would be all I needed. She gave me much needed encouragement. Thanks muchly, Heather! That advice worked for me. Flo never looked better.

I use Hydro after every wash to maintain the Epic. Prolly won't need to wax again till the start of winter.

 

I have to say, having the right compound (Swirl) makes a world of difference. I probably could have used Cut on the hood but overall I'd say the difference of how my old 2002 Kia Rio looks is very significant now versus before I used the PC on it.

All of the swirls are gone. There are some minor scratches in the hood (you have to be looking very close) but otherwise she looks fantastic. I have no qualms selling her to one of my wife's friends now. It's too dark for me to take pictures but I'll try to take some tomorrow. I am quite pleased with the job that Swirl did on the finish.

However, tomorrow is delivery day on my R56 so picking her up will of course be forefront on my mind.

 

Now if you follow up the Swirl with some Amigo, even those faint scratches will be come less visible. It's like magic. Looking forward to seeing your pictures.
Bet you're pretty excited about getting your new MINI.

 

I did end up taking 4 pictures of the Rio in our garage last night. You can see reflections of the shop lights and a bicycle that is suspended above the hood. I pulled it out of the garage this morning and took 4 more pics. However, my camera is having a hard time taking a close up picture as it sees one solid color and isn't wanting to snap a picture because it doesn't know what to focus on.

You can also see in some of the pictures where we've used touch up paint on some of the rock chips and door dings.

Here is a link to the online photo album.

Here is one from the garage last night with reflections of the light and bicycle.



And here is one from this morning

 

Looks nice Simpson GI

I am about to break out the PC & Swirl for the 1st time myself this weekend (well 1st time for the Swirl anyway)

 

nice and rich looking red.

 

that looks nice.
You might try OG's ol'finger on the paint trick to help your camera focus.

 

Looks good to me too. Nice job.

 

I'm sure Flo looks great with just Epic applied with the random oribital polish... sans polish. But hey, you're cheating !! PW doesn't show swirls, even if you wash it using 200 grit sandpaper !!

Okay, that's a slight exagerration, I admit. But man, it does hide the flaws very well ! Then again, you don't get the reflection out of PW you do the dark colors, so it's a trade-off.

 

So true. There are days when I wish I could get the nice rich reflection out of Clara...but there are definitely more days where I'm happy pretty much all I have to do is wash and wax!

 

Haha, sorry to burst your bubble, but not true! Here's a 2005 Pepperwhite I worked on--it's been half polished on the right (bottom)!


Yep, or focus on something near by that's contrasty--edge of a panel, trunk, etc.. Put some blue tape down if you need and focus on that and take the picture--if you don't mind having some tape in the picture!

Good job! Looks great!

 

While I am sure you can find imperfections in any color from the right angle, I still say compared to black, red, & some other dark colors, there is no comparison & lighter colors hide swirls & other imperfections way better

 

Thanks for the tip. I gave it a try and was able to get this close up of the hood.



I've also added the picture to the online gallery.

I do have to say, I am quite pleased with the results. I feel confident enough now to use the PC on our Minis. Thanks again, everyone here is a great help!

 

Great! Now you just need to position the sun over your shoulder so we can see whether the swirls are there or gone!
Oh I don't doubt that at all. White, silver, gold--all great colors for not seeing swirls as readily as darker colors, but then again, those colors will never have the rich deep color, gloss, or reflectivity either.