That is exactly what I am talking about. Here is one outside of Dallas http://www.racersranch.com/ . Many more are being built and news articles are appearing more and more as baby boomers getting near retirement age need a place to run their "toys".

The phrase "country club racetrack" is just the new buzzword. You don't go play golf, you go drive around the race track.

Well, if you got the need for speed, you can always do the silver state classic and drive as fast as you want on a public closed road. I think a MC40 won their class there a few years ago. More and more of closed public road rallies are happening in other states (its not a car race but timed road rally where you try to hit the target speed for your class). Pick your target speed and go for it.

 

Man I sure don't see that, although it is remotely possible.

My take is the locals are tired of the antics & the authorities are getting tired of having to scrape up the crash victims.

What is happening should not be a surprise to anyone.

 

I was kidding... tho' it's true that most of the MOTD $$ stay in NC

 

I cannot even begin to fathom Harley's on the Dragon!? Don't you need an agile, short wheelbase vehicle with enough ground clearance to lean far enough over to make the tight turns???? Harley's do not readily come to mind as being equipped with the "right stuff". Interesting to find out the number of bikes that crash and who manufactures them (?) - probably still mostly sportbikes, but it would still be interesting to see the stats.
The reason for crashes on roads like this are two-fold. The nature of the road invites (encourages?) drivers to push the limits. The mindset of the driver who engages in pushing their limits can lead said participant to over-extend those limits and discover the hard lessons of said over-extension.
It is difficult to maintain a "mature" outlook when confronted with such twisty delicacies! We must all try to remember that this is indeed NOT a racetrack, and pull back accordingly...or not...

 

I'm not sure I buy that premise... If that were the case, every straight road of four lanes, over 1320 ft, would be inciting people to drag race. We are a nation of laws and by accepting a license to drive, we are agreeing to honor the specific laws regarding driving, i.e. speedlimits.

What we hope for is that the traffic engineers who design roads and in most places, recommend safe speed limits to the regulatory bodies that set them are realistic with the speed limits they set.

If they set them too fast, you can be sure that some moron will sue them for endangering their lives. Not to mention the incurred costs for governments for cops, ambulances, courts, etc. for scraping up the aftermath of accidents. We all complain that government costs too much.

The cost of this extra enforcement in the dragon area is big and won't last very long. All of these extra cops were brought in from other assignments and will have to go back at some point. They'll be gone soon and things will return to normal until the next enforcement campaign.

Question: If at an event like the MOD, how long would it take for the exact location of every cop to be known to every participant? I'm guessing about 30 minutes before they arrive! Cell phones and two-way radios are great things...

Its a drag to get a ticket, but realistically, for us with cars that can go fast, we risk it on every road we drive, not just the Dragon.

NOw.... How about a location on Oahu for that private track?!?

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Exactly

The nature of the road invites (encourages?) drivers to push the limits.
It is difficult to maintain a "mature" outlook when confronted with such twisty delicacies!

Huh? I would imagine that for "most" people it means they would drive within the speed limit and be safe. What is the point of trying to drive at unsafe speeds on public highways

I get it that the dragon is cool but with the widespread availability of track days, DEs, what is the point of driving "fast" on public highways??? What are you proving?

Maybe http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/p...rface-5714.php might sober ppl up but I doubt it.

I get it that MINIs are great handling cars. So take it to a safe race track where your encouraged to drive fast, not where innocent people may be hurt.:impatient Oh wait, that's probably not going make any dent. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way that yes, Speed does kill. I just hope it doesn't happen to one of your loved ones or that your SO doesn't get the knock on the door one day about you.

Rant off. Go have fun

 

I don't think we're talking about excessive speed. 30 mph is the speed limit in TN, well within the handling ability of our cars. NC is 45. I don't think it would be such an issue if the whole Dragon was 45. At least at 45 you can have some fun. At 30, it's barely worth even doing.

The problem is that some of these motorcycles can probably reach 90 on some of the straights and can't slow quickly enough for the next turn. Or, some people cross the yellow line. They really ought to ban 18 wheelers from the road, as they cannot safely traverse the road.

 

Some fun? Why can't you have your "fun" at the track or an autocross? Why risk injuring others, ma and pa and the kids in their Camry on the family vacation in the Smokies because "you have to have some fun"? Where is the logic in that?

20 years ago, there was far less availability to do track days or DEs. Today, there are common just about everywhere. If you want to "have fun", why not do it an environment where its supposed to happen rather than on public highways were its not supposed to happen?

And I do believe in 2004 someone drove their Miata or something into a tree and died during MOTD? And what about the guy in the MINI who drove like a madman in 05 that everyone dumped on? Probably only luck that innocent people did not get injured.

You want to have fun, take it to the track and keep other innocent people out of your fun

The point is, there is a time and place for everything, and just because ANY car can take a corner faster than the speed limit does not mean they should when legal venues are available.

 

hmmm..have you ever been on the Dragon? Just asking....


yup...cars and bikes are offenders...

 

I really believe that by the time MOTD comes around, this will be all for nothing. Every police dept. goes through this. Look at DC Metro PD. They go into a bad neighbourhood and "show force" by putting just about every officer into the neighbourhood for about a week or so, and than they go back to what they did before. That is what is going on @ the Dragon IMO. Also, the Dragon is getting pretty crowded now, so it is not like you can really drive it to your ability when everyone is there anyhow.

Last MOTD, I had 2 Harley type crusers in front of me slowing me down. They started to pick up speed and they both almost wiped out and one of them had to go into the oncoming lane in a blind corner just because they didn't want to let me pass.

 

The logic is in that 30 MPH is too slow of a speed limit. I was simply making the point that it is 45 MPH in NC, same road, same kind of twists. I don't think that driving at 45 MPH is risking anyone. The people getting injured are the result of irresponible drivers crossing the line and driving EXCESSIVE speeds.

No need to get so angry!!

As far as the logic, a while back the national speed limit was 55, then the speed limit was raised to 65 or 70+ on the same roads. Does that make the roads more dangerous? No. I am simply advocating raising the speed limit to 45 MPH so the road will be more fun. Do you not have any fun on public roads? Again, I'm not talking about racing or driving excessively fast, but having fun, or do you just drive like an old lady on all public roads so as not to endanger the innocent?

Explain to me how I'm going to endanger ma and pa and the kids in their Camry on the Dragon doing 45 MPH, so long as I don't cross the yellow line (which I never do) or rear end them??

Have you ever driven the Dragon?? 30 MPH is only slighty faster than neighborhood driving, yet there are no intersection, no driveways, no kids running around, no soccer ***** to wander into the street. In fact for that very reason, the Dragon is probably safer than many other twisty roads.

Really, you must get in touch with your anger.

 

Art, I have decided that I'm not going to jump into this argument, but I wanted to relay that as far as I am aware, neither the Miata driver nor his passenger girlfriend died in that crash. The driver was also drunk. I was at MOTD that year, and I saw the aftermath, because the Dragon was closed for about an hour & a half... this happened during Midnight On The Dragon, after we had made it to Tabcat Bridge. We all had to wait there a very, very long time, with many police & ambulance going to the scene, until the road was open again and we could return home.

To the best of my knowledge, so far, only bikers have died on the Dragon, although I don't know what percentage was the biker's fault (i.e. crossing double yellow around blind corner, or simply running off the road) versus some other idiot driver in a car, crossing the double yellow on the blind corner and taking out a biker who was doing nothing wrong.

 

Edge, your recollections of fatal accidents on the Dragon, including the Miata accident, match mine. Neither the Miata driver nor his passenger died. To date, all fatalities on the Dragon have involved motorcycles, and the recent one which involved a motor-trike.

I also am not sure about the actual fault in all of the accidents, but from my reading of the Tail of the Dragon website, it's been due to driver error.

 

the Miata driver didn't die, by some miracle. Drunk, no seat belt, and driving the Dragon at night. I believe one of his feet got mangled pretty badly.

Art, since you've never been to the Dragon, cool your pontificating. Whether or not one agrees with the posted speed limits or not, they're there. The crackdown happened for whatever reason.

That is the subject of this thread, period. Let's stay on topic, and not start to do this

 

You can't compare the 1973 55 mph national speed limit, which was designed not for safety but to save fuel, with a speed limit on a winding road. Apples and Oranges.

I would imagine the state engineers did their safety thing and decided what was safe. Nobody has to agree with it but it is a Nation of Laws and the LEOs cracking down are doing their job. BTW, the statistics on their website the speed limit used to 55 until 1992 and now 30 in both states. Maybe the state engineers found too many accidents so decided to lower it?

Fun on public roads? hmm. hmmm. Lemme check with my wife. I would say this. This ain't 20 years ago. The availability of open track days is far different than in the past. So there is no longer an excuse for "having fun" on public roadways when you can take it to the track.

Heh, actually I have been on it, long before it was popular for cars and long before MINI existed. I think I posted about it on the PI thread. I just didn't know the name for it. To make a long story short, we were heading around the country, mid-1990s, started through the Smokeys, hated it, backtracked back to 40, got off at 129, got lost (yeah, I don't stop and ask for directions). Had no idea where I was only that my wife was pretty upset because I was "lost" and heading east and not south and west (heading to TX). hehe. Later on I discovered that it was the "infamous" dragon but at the time, all I knew was I added hours to our trip and there were "no bathrooms!"

So there ... been there done that. At the time, I didn't think it was that big a deal in the sense that it was just another winding road. The previous year or two we had been doing some winding forestry roads in Oregon in the MR2 Turbo and they not only were windy but a lot of elevation changes and working the car was actually work. And the huge trucks carrying big trees took up much of both lanes at times. There were other roads in Nova Scotia where just staying at the speed limit was pushing it. But then again, maybe when I think about it, maybe I read KPH as MPH ROFL, I think that's true. No wonder doing the speed limit was work! ROFL, when we crossed from MT into Alberta, I noticed the signs said speed limit 90 and thought that was great. Haha KPH. I'm not saying the "dragon" is good or bad, but at the time, to us it was just another windy road, I was lost, she was made, and we were losing time heading to TX.