That was me. I just posted my experience here. The best thing people can do who want to know more about this tune is to call John and talk to him. Meanwhile I'll be motoring in my MINI, which is even better and even more fun than before!


In this case, that's a good thing!

 

Okay. Im a bit slow. Sorry.

Help me out here. I would prefer that somebody from Lucky Dog answer this post but others opinions are good, too. I have a factory installed JCW on a 2006 MCS. So....

1. If I get an LDG dyno tune and ECU flash what will be the WHP?

2. If I add a 15% pulley (I believe LDG uses the Mini-Madness pulley), THEN what would my WHP be? Nobody seems to agree on what the JCW pulley % is so how can I decide whether or not its worth it? (semi-rhetorical question)

3. And, the ultimate noob question: WHP = horse power at the wheel? I know that Mini claims 210 (BHP?) for a JCW.

4. What is included in the $700 exactly: dyno tune + ECU flash, only? All of this can be done at LDG right? I dont need to buy some GIAC chip or something and have it shipped to LDG for install?

5. How much more will it cost to furnish and install the 15% (Mini-Madness) pulley if I buy through LDG? Or, is that included in the $700.

Thanks to who ever ventures a response to all my questions!

Pl4yPl4y

 

You might want to move this question to the LDG thread in the vendors area of NAM. Here: Lucky Dog Garage

The folks at LDG monitor that thread....

 

Oh good idea. Thanks!

 

Pl4yPl4y, do yourself a big favor and pick up a phone and call LDG and talk to John. That will give you immediate answers to all of your questions, plus others that John may ask you.

 

I saw John this afternoon and he told me about your experience. Looks like your curve is about 2% better than mine. He pulled a few more RPM for you and that makes part of the HP difference for you. Also I see you have a CAT back and my exhaust is totally stock.


For pl4ypl4y -- I agree with thë_cöpi that you should call John Behe directly and/or take a drive out to his shop to meet him. You'll find that he will talk as long as you want and answer all your questions. But to answer one of them -- unless you have him install a pulley (or do some other work on the hardware), there are no physical modifications involved. All the tuning loads into the car's computer thru the car's OBD2 port. John's "magic" involves knowing which bits to twiddle in order to improve the performance. He prefers to do the work on a car that he has on the dyno so that he can instantly get feedback and fine tune the tuning.

John has shown repeatedly that the ONLY hardware mod needed to hit the 190-200 WHP (= 210-220 HP at the engine assuming ~10% loss in the drive train) is a pulley and maybe a CAI. Other things (like super coils or plug wires or even a fancy exhaust) have a negligible effect on performance. The nearly identical results that thë_cöpi and I documented in this thread show what you can achieve with a 15% pulley and a CAI. I'll bet that your JCW experience will be precisely the same.

I also would like to stress that the quality of the "oomph" you feel when you press the loud pedal is really the result of TORQUE and not HP. I digress to make the usual comment that the fundamental measurement is really torque. Mathematically, the relation (for details, look here) is


In normal units used in the US (BHP and ft-lbs), the constant = [1/5252], so if you EVER see a plot where Torque & HP are not numerically equal at 5252 RPM, then somebody has screwed the pooch in the measurement. For my car @5250RPM, torque=HP=157, while the stock 03 reads about 146.

IMHO , all the other engine mods that people push are just $$ BL!NG $$ if you intend to use your car on the street. The story is different if the car is intended for use on the track and really want an engine that will wind up past 8000 and burn rubber all the way. But then I am well known to be the village curmudgeon.

 

ha ha I guess I have the UBER bling car... WOOT! cuase I have all kinds of stuff attached to my motor...

 

Wow -- I'm underwhelmed! Words escape me (and that's very unusual for me)

 

I will certainly speak to John. I did speak to Phil the other day briefly, but I must have been confusing some of the numbers he was mentioning.

I guess what I was trying to get was some real WHP numbers for what blueminiboy was speculating about in the above quote.

I.E., if i were to pay more for a 15% pulley, what kind of WHP can I expect to see. I guess with so much debate about the size of JCW pulleys, I wonder if that amount can be reliably predicted?

THanks everyone for your inputs.

 

SHes 400 HP? YIKES

 

Hi Tuls,.....

looking good

I don't understand the cat-back statement.... Dave just pulled the tail end of the Milltek off during a dyno and got 15 more whp..... consequently, there is a new exhaust being designed ...... it will be on the car before my trip to LDG in two weeks.

FWIW we also played with the IC and found some interesting things...... let me say that the DFIC performed quite well.....

 

Every time I see a picture of your motor........

 

Bob, do you know exactly what day you'll be there?

 

haha yeah flow in and out is very important with forced induction... thats great news for you bob

 

+1

Actually, important with any engine.

 

yikes? no...

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! LOL

haha... thanks... I haven't been around her in over a month... starting to think she's not real... LOL

here here!!

 

Why are they charging another $300 for the dyno. Do u get almost double the HP if i dyno tune?

And what are the average HP #s for the $400 flash. I still dont understand why people are getting such low numbers and I dont even have most the things on my car i see others do and reached almost 200whp with a crappy MTH tune

 

Since I am not a representative of LDG, I will not be able to answer that question properly. I am a happy patron.

My guess is that the extra $300 will cover the cost to run the dyno. I know those things are not cheap. Remember this is just my guess.

But really the true way to find out, would be to ask John at LDG.

 

Id def like to use them seeing the gains from everyone that has there flash but thats outragous to charge another $300 for the dyno. The local shops ive used in the past charge $50-$100 for 3 dyno pulls and thats with my tuning my safc. I can see the extra fee for them fine tuning there flash but that should be included in the $400 fee and aliil extra like $150 for the dyno. But hey, its there shop so it is what it is.

 

$150/hour for dyno time. 2 hours for a custom tune.
It's not like he flashes the car and then does a run to see what it generates. He flashes the car, checks how it's running with respect to AFRs/boost/whatever, and continues to tweak. The final product is a tune that is unique to your car. You get maximum performance while at the same time retaining the day-to-day drivability.

 

I know this is nitpicking, but I am planning to purchase new wheels, tires, change my air filter for my JCW CAI, and prop open the flap (cowel?) in the JCW air box. I might even get new spark plugs. Would it theoretically be better to do this before the custom tune?

 

I'd talk to John @ LDG and ask him. Based on my conversations with him, it made sense to select my mod's carefully without getting something that does nothing, and then have him tune it after the engine mod's were installed. The tune will be the best solution given the system at that point in time.

 

If you seriously are planning on getting a tune from him I would call and discuss it first.

Things like tires aren't going to affect the tune at all. The dynapack attaches directly to the wheel hubs and eliminates the variable to tires in the power measurements.

 

Got a quote from LDG Tuesday past, and the flash-only tune is now $500.
Demand drives up prices, I suppose.

 

I'll bet you asked for a flash by shipping the ECU to him. He doesn't have the ability to flash a free-standing ECU. In order to make the ECU be happy so that it can be re-zapped, he has to:

• bring a MINI into his shop (it's usually his test "mule"),
• swap your ECU into the "mule",
• do the flash using the "mule's" OBD2 port,
• try the "mule" with your ECU to make certain that the flash "took",
• pull your ECU and replace the "mule's" ECU
• package up your ECU for return shipping (usually by UPS).

Just last week, John was complaining that the "mail order flash" business was difficult and unsatisfying for him and his customers. He really prefers to rely on the dyno to fine-tune parameters to match your desires and the car's installed hardware.

Given his modus operandi (he really is an artist), and the way LDG does business ( small local shop), my advice was that he should only do flashes at his shop, or at concentrated local group "pulley parties" in places where a dyno is available. He told me he was planning a "party" in Miami this month where at least 10 people had signed up.

Also note the posting by CmdrVimes (Matt) about 5 above here in a response to 1FSTMINI:
BTW -- John's "mail order flash" would be a LOT easier if he had a wiring harness into which he can plug your ECU. Unfortunately, it appears that in order to program the ECU, there are a number of VALID SENSOR tests that have to be passed. The only way that John has found that he can zap a mail-in ECU is to tie up an entire MINI. If anyone has a solution to this problem, I know that John would be forever in your debt .