It's been awhile since I've autox'ed - got pretty into it for a few years going back more than 15 years ago running a late 80's Camaro in FS around the time that the 4th gens were coming on strong. Eventually moved that car to ESP and then started doing open track events and never looked back on autox. Progressed from HPDE in various cars and then to race groups and eventually wound up racing in the NASA CMC series for a few years. Which was a blast!

Until I decided I couldn't justify the time or expense any longer and sold everything. I had a C6 vette street car for a few years thinking I would take it on track, but never once did. It just didn't seem that interesting without doing actual wheel to wheel racing at that point.

Getting to the point, I recently picked up a 08 MCS to share driving duties with my wife and daughter. I am currently working on teaching her to drive stick. She is 17 with 1 year of driving with a full license under her belt. I would like to get out and dabble a bit in some autox action and maybe get her involved too.

So looks like I can run with SCCA and BMW CCA in my area - both with strong autox programs and good locations not too far from me.

First thing I need to do is solve the tire issue. Car is on RF's and the rears are 2 different brands and tread depths and the fronts are yet another brand and going on ~4/32" based on my eyeball guestimate. Not an ideal set-up for autox and makes the car somewhat unstable in driving situation, so looking to make a change there first.

Car has the stock 16" wheels btw.

I am thinking about getting a set of Motegi Racing 17x7 which are on sale at TR right now and weigh 16.5lbs and then running the Dunlop DZ1 tire in a 215-45-17 size for the street and initial autox adventures.

Down the road I could throw some V710's or Hankooks on the stock 16" wheels, or buy dedicated race wheels and keep those are spares. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to bring a full size spare with me on trips out of the area anyway, so wouldn't go totally to waste.

I figure I will dismount and sell the 2 oddball tires currently on the rear as one is a brand new Goodyear and the other is 80% or so tread and both are probably useful to somebody somewhere.

I am not too worried about being super competitive at least initially - I'd like to get the car handling nice, so will probably upgrade the rear sway bar and get a decent alignment that still works for street use. Maybe Koni's down the road, for now stick with the stock shocks. First thing is to re-learn how to drive fast on a autox course and with a FWD car, since this is my first experience racing one.

Thoughts? Alternative strategies?

Will the Dunlop be decent street tires for when my wife or daughter drive the car? I assume they will be. It rains here, but doesn't get cold - I live in Northern CA SF Bay Area btw.

 

I have heard nothing but good things about the Z1's albeit that was from Miata owners. One quoted as saying that he puts on 18k per year on the street with them and runs numerous autox and track events. I am in Wisconsin and assume that he doesn't drive the Miata in the winter on those tires which would be crazy. I'm actually looking at upgrading to that tire next year. Right now I'm running Michelin Sport Pilots which have also been a good street/autox tire though I don't think that they are at the level of the Z1. This is my first year autocrossing and I am having a blast. Planning to stay in D-stock for a few years and then maybe move to one of the ST classes.

 

I have been running auto-x with my MCSs since 2004. When I first started in auto-x the MCS was in GS and I was still running what was left of my runflat Dunlops. As a novice it is advisable to start on street tires as grippier tires will cover up many bad habits. Tires worn down to 4/32 make perfect auto-x tires. Taller tread blocks will most likely just end up getting chunks of rubber torn off.

Definitely introduce your daughter to auto-x. It is a fantastic way to teach car control that can not be duplicated. Besides that, she will most likely enjoy it. Both of my kids now enjoy auto-x whenever they are in town.

As far as wheels and tires go you can compete in one of the newer "street tire" classes and save the expense of buying R-comps. There are many "take off" wheels available from other MINI owners that changed wheels. I have been competing on the stock 16"x6.5" wheel that was available from 2002 thru 2006. This was the lightest of the stock 16" or 17" wheels offered by MINI at 17.6lbs. I was able to pick up a set of four wheels for only $300 and have been using them for my "race" wheels.

In 2010 the MCS was moved out of GS and into DS where the competition is a bit tougher. However, there are "street tire" classes that offer a sort of handicap formula called PAX allowing different classes of cars to compete on an even footing. The people that can drive their car closer to their cars' PAX handicap win.

The Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec makes a great auto-x tire and daily driver, however if they are used as daily drivers they will have to be replaced annually as they will get pretty hard in one year and not give you the traction you need for auto-x, even though there will be plenty of tread left. If you can do it a set of "race" wheels is the way to go. Then you can put on some high mileage tires as daily drivers and still have sticky tires for the weekends.

Adding a stiffer rear sway bar is definitely the way to go. The H-Sport Competition bar is a hollow 25.5mm bar which is much lighter and stiffer than stock. I just installed one on my 2006 MCS and love it. Got it from Way Motor Works ,http://www.waymotorworks.com/h-sport...-sway-bar.html great people, great service. Full soft on the street, full stiff for auto-x. The Koni Sport Yellows make a huge difference in the ride and handling. Another winner. When you are getting the alignment done it is possible to add about a half a degree of negative camber to the front by knocking out a plastic pin in the top of the shock tower and sliding the struts in as much as you can. In the rear there is an eccentric bolt on the lower control arm that will allow you to dial out some of the negative camber, allowing the rear to rotate a little better.

Good luck, enjoy.

 

Do consider the class you intend to run in before you buy wheels... If you intend to run Stock with the SCCA then Section 13.4 of the Solo Rulebook reads as follows:

"13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following: it
is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed (including
wheel spacers if applicable) it does not have an offset more than
+/- 0.25 inch from a standard wheel for the car. The resultant change in
track dimensions is allowed.
Wheel spacers are permitted, provided the resultant combination complies
with the offset requirements of this section. Wheel studs, lug nuts,
and/or bolt length may be changed.
Vehicles equipped with rims having metric specifications may use alternate
rims as determined by using the following procedure:
Diameter: converting the metric measurement to inches and using
the nearest smaller inch diameter rim.
Width: converting the metric measurement to inches and using the
nearest smaller 1/2-inch width rim. Offset and track must still comply
with the requirements of this section."

 

very good advice - thanks! I plan to run in DS. I am very familiar with the SCCA rules, or at least what they were a dozen years ago when I was competing regularly in FS and ESP. They haven't changed all that much really - one thing I really like is the addition of a rear sway bar - most factory cars understeer naturally, so going with a bigger front bar only makes that worse - makes no sense! This new rule is a lot more rational and creates better handling cars, which is a positive thing for the sport.

So my first thought was to run a dedicated race wheel / tire set-up, although not sure if there is enough room in a mini to carry 4 wheels to the track - is there? Back in the day I was running BFG R1's on my FS car and sometimes drove those to the track, but seems the fast tires these days are a bit less streetable than the old R1's were. At this point I am more comfortable running on race tires than street tires in general, since for 15+ years I've been racing on them.

That is one good point about needing to replace street tires every year - but I could potentially run one year on the street tires and then continue to use those up on the street and switch to R tires next year when I have a better handle how to drive this particular car. But I'm sure I can also come up to speed quickly with the MCS.

I checked the RFs on the car now - 3 are the Goodyear.
1 brand new one, and 2 at 4/32"
and 1 Kumho at 8/32"

So that's pretty messed up and can't be ideal for handling or even stability.

 

I read the latest Tire Rack summer tire test in Car and Driver. the DZ1 didn't fare too well. Seems the RS3 is a better choice.

But I'm really leaning towards spending a bit less and getting the longer wearing Evo V12's - I had those on a S4 and was very impressed with them, especially for the $. Those may not be the most competitive in autox, but would allow me to get some experience learning the car and getting it set up and then I can pick up some 16" R compounds for next season. I found out the wheels I have on my car are one of the lightest 16x6.5" factory wheels at 17.6lbs, so those would make perfectly good autox wheels.

 

One thing you may want to consider is that SCCA has a new provisional national Solo2 class this year for cars that are otherwise Stock class legal, but have street tires with 140 or greater treadwear rating. There are 3 such classes actually. The one you may want to look into is "RTF", Road Tire FWD.

I am running an 07 MCS in that class this season, and it's a very competitive car in-class and on PAX index. It's a very fun car, especially with the new-for-2012 rear sway bar allowance for Stock class cars too.

I am running the RS3s and they are the better pure autoX tire. But the Star Specs are excellent too. I ran Star Specs on my Evo in a stock street tire class last season. The Star Specs will be better all around for street tires, but give up just a hair to the DS3s at autoX. Plus the DS3s are probably unavailable in the US right now, which makes the choice much easier...

 

There is plenty of room for four wheels, jack, tools, assorted pads, fluids, clothes, helmet, food and drink. Been there, done that. Didn't even have to use a roof rack. If you want some tips on packing everything in just drop my a note.

When I have done track days in the heat of summer I will take one or two of the "Quick-Shade" shelters and then I have to add the roof rack.

Yeah, your tire collection would not make for a comfortable auto-x experience.

 

I expect this car will see ~10K miles per year. Going with the 140 treadwear tires I suspect I would need to change them every year using for both street and autox.

Otherwise I could get 2-3 years out of a set of street tires, and probably also 2 years out of a set of autox tires.

So which one works out to cheaper? Probably close to a wash eh?

If a wash, I'd rather run the car on R's. If there is a big savings to sticking with a single set for street and autox, I could be convinced that is the right call.

Thoughts?

 

When I was banished to ASP in '05 and '06 I built a little wooden rack that sat across the car behind the front seats. I was able to store four wheels with a little room to spare in it. They were 15x7 rims running Hoosier 205/50-15 tires.

So yes I believe all the gear can go inside the car - that was my experience.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

You will get at least 2 to 3 seasons and at least 20,000 out of either the RS3 or Star Specs on a lightweight car like the MINI.

Last season I drove my Evo IX on Star Specs for 15 events, and they still look brand new. I could get at least 3 to 4 seasons on the Star Specs on the Evo at the rate I was going. The Evo IX weighs 650+ lbs more than the MINI. So the MINI should be even easier on tires.

 

Some good comments here. I think I see a slippery slope ahead.

One point that I didn't see mentioned: Your current OEM wheels are R102 S-winders; the lightest of the 16X6.5" OEM wheels at 17.4#. That's not as light as you can get in aftermarket 17s, but certainly light enough to get started on with some new tires.

 

So if I were to keep the 16" winders and put on some autox capable street tires, seems my options are:

Dunlop Star Spec Z1 in 205-55-16 (.5" taller than stock)
Hankook RS3 in 205-55-16 (0.5" taller than stock)
Kumho XS in 215-45-16 (0.8" shorter than stock)

So is .8" shorter or .5" taller than stock a better for a combo autox / street tire?

Toyo R1R comes in a more optimum size - 205-50-16 which is same diameter as stock.

All seem to have a 8.4" section width.

If I end up popping for 17's then the RS3 in a 215-45-17 looks just about perfect - the Z1s seem too expensive in 17" sizes, where the RS3's are a better value.

The 17" wheels I am considering are Sparcos and they are about 1lb lighter than the stock 16's on my car, but the 17" tires are 1lb heavier so it's a wash.

 

The August issue of Car and Driver has an AX-relevant street tire test report. In dry AX performance, the Yoko AD08 finished first, the Michelin PSS second, the Dunlop Star Spec third, and Hankook R-S3 fourth. The other tires (including the Toyo R1R) were farther behind. The Conti DW and Michelin PSS took wet AX. Best overall (including "Real World Factors") was the Michelin PSS, with the Bridgestone S-04 and the Yoko AD08 next. Unfortunately, sizing may complicate matters.

A somewhat shorter than OE tire size should help a bit in AX, but a somewhat taller tire should provide a somewhat more compliant ride. 205/50/16 is a fairly popular tire size in general for the 16X6.5" wheels, but the Toyo R1Rs didn't do as well in the dry or wet as I expected they would; and they were dead last in ride comfort.

There were a lot of different measures used in scoring, including some relevant for daily use (sound level and ride).

After checking at Tire Rack, it looks like the Star Spec might be the best dry AX tire in the 205/50/16 size, but the trade-off on the road is relatively rapid wear, high noise level, and harsh ride. Tire choices in the 215/45/17 size are much broader and more attractive.

You might check these out. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...s-w-tires.html

 

Hankook RS-3's and Star Specs both come in a 205-55-16 not a 205-50-16. Between those two I think I would opt for the RS-3 since it is cheaper and may last longer and ride a bit better. I think any of these will probably ride pretty good compared to the RF's tho!

I think I may have scored a set of stock heavy 17's with useable tires on them for $85 from Ebay that are local to me. Seems too good to be true and the seller hasn't contacted me yet, but supposedly I won the auction. So I might run those for a bit on the street but that won't necessarily effect what else I do for tires / wheels.

 

When I check for 205/50/16 tires at Tire Rack, the first tire that shows up in the list is the Star Spec.

 

oh wow - somehow I missed that, so the Stars come in both 205-50 and 205-55, well that pretty much seals the deal on getting those over the RS-3 which only come in 205-55.

 

One thing to note ab the z1 vs rs3 debate is that z1s have two main advantages - 1, they don't require as much heat in them to grip than the rs3s, and 2, they are much better in the wet. I currently run rs3s but plan on going with z1s when they're done. I believe the z1s also last longer

 

Plus the RS-3 won't be legal in SCCA street tire classes next year due to it's 140 UTQG. I've read that the minimum UTQG will change to 180. Since stock classes allow R-comps, I assume that 140 street tires would still be legal in stock, but I haven't read such.

 

It does not make sense, if it changes to 180, thankfully i purchased RE11, but how would R be allowed in Ds Class ?

 

The switch to 180 only affects a few tires. I wonder if the tire manufacturers could just change the numbers themselves, as they're the ones that set them in the first place.

R-comps are allowed in all SCCA stock classes, although not everyone runs them at the local level. Apparently that's one of the reasons for the popularity of the various street tire classes. Street tire classes also allow a few other mods beyond what's allowed in stock, including wheels wider than OE. I know, it's strange; stock classes get to run R-comps (including Hoosiers) of any size, but only on OE-sized wheels.

Many apparently prefer that stock classes run on street tires, but I read that it would badly upset the current car classifications, and it might take a couple of years to re-sort the classes.

 

SCCA recently announced that they have dropped the proposal to limit street tires to UTQG of 180 and above for next season. Thus, UTQG 140 tires will still be legal; at least until they change their minds.

Sorry if my earlier report caused someone to avoid 140 tires.

 

not me! I ended up with a set of Pirelli P-Zero's in the stock 17" size as my street tires. Those will have to do for autox as well until I decide how serious I want to be.