the last few times i've started my classic, i've had to pop it. i'm not sure if it's the starter, alternator or just plain cold weather. can anyone out there give me a run down of what symptoms of a bad starter vs. what a bad alternator would display?

 

pls give us something to work with...
what does it/doesn't it actually do? what sounds does it makes? does it have any funny smells (gas, etc)?

• is there a "clicking" noise but failure to turn over? (battery or soleniod bad)
• is there no reaction/noise at all? (battery, wiring connections)
• does it turn over - fast or slow? (slow = battery bad or starter worn)
• if it turns over does it fire at all? misfire? (check ignition components & carb settings)

Start with basics.

• Clean the battery posts & cable ends
• Check the water level in the battery
• Load Test the battery at the parts store (for free)

if the battery's good, and it doesn't turn over, then check the starter soleniod

• Check the contacts on the starter soleniod and cable to starter for corrosion;
• Jump the cable terminals (carefully) on the soleniod - does it now turn over & start?

if the solenoid's good, it turns over, but doesn't fire, then check the ignition [I assume that this part is good, and your "pop it" means it starts when ignition is on and you roll it in 2nd & "pop" the clutch]

• If it has points, check 'em for gap. They do close up.
• Is there spark at the plugs? (points, coil issues)
• Check plugs for fouling.
• Is the timing set correctly?
• Is the cap cracked?

if the ignition is good, check the carb fuel supply

• Is there oil in the SU dashpot?
• Is the choke mechanism working?
• Is sufficient fuel getting to the carb?

Above all buy a Haynes Manual where these procedures are enumerated.

 

What is 'pop it'?

You mean you push started it?

Does it start OK if you jump it?

 

i know, i know... very vague. but i'm trying to collect some information before i start into it.

what i mean by popping it is rolling and popping the clutch while in 2nd to start it up.

so, here's some more info... when i turn the key sometimes the starter turns and turns but it doesn't turn over. sometimes it wont even turn. occasionally, i'll get a little ignition from the motor but just a hint.

finally, once i get the motor started, if i turn it off it will start right up.

i will try some of the stuff that has been suggested and get back to the board. sorry for being so vague.

 

So, we've established that it does start when push started, thus eliminating ignition & carb.

Now, you say the starter turns but the engine doesn't .

Therefore,

• the battery may be weak and isn't producing enough electricity to bring the starter up to speed to engage the bendix gear. So check the battery condition, as suggested.
• the solenoid may be bad. It is a relay that connects the battery power direct to the starter when you turn the key. What are you experiencing when the starter does not turn? Just a "clicking" noise? See above post re soleniod.

If the battery is good, and the solenoid functioning,

• the bendix gear on the starter that drives the flywheel ring gear to spin the motor may be dirty (or worn out). Remove the starter, clean the gear assembly on the end of the shaft with carb cleaner, let dry, lube with graphite (NO oil or grease, as it will attract dirt). It should spin up freely on the shaft without dragging. Reinstall & try it again.
• the ring gear on the flywheel could be worn in spots from previous owners engaging the starter after the engine is running. Therefore, it will engage easily where the gear teeth are still good and be difficult if it stops in a worn area. If so, this is major work involving removing the clutch & flywheel assembly.
• the starter itself may be shot. Remove and take to auto electrical rebuilder to have checked/rebuilt.

 

Start simple.....

check all your ground (earth) connections.

did you know that there is a short earth cable from the block to the body? The bushings in the engine mounts and stabilizer actually isolate the charging & starting system from the battery; the battery earth connection goes from the post to the body in the boot right? No direct link, as compared to the pos cable that runs from the starter relay all the way back. Mine is a short braided cable & runs under the upper engine stabilizer - was invisible 'til I knew what I was looking for. Coupled with a loose nut on the bottom of the body side of the stabilizer I had a poor ground from the alternator to the chassis. Sometimes when I turned the key I had action...sometimes not. Depended on how this cable was hanging. I was about to replace the alternator but went and had it checked. It is/was putting out like gangbusters. Found the loose bolt and whamo - this problem was knocked way down. This prompted me to pull all the battery cables apart and clean the connections. (p.s. as funky as these cars can be - the charging system, assuming you have neg earth and an alternator - are pretty standard and even auto-zone testers can verify your charging system's performance)

I was good 'til it got cold and the starting got sluggish again & I took the 'new' battery, bought by previous owner to auto-zone for a check. It was a battery they sold. "Did you get 5 starts out of this since you bought it?"

"Yes"

"It's done then..." Crap battery. Don't forget these lil' engines are high compression often coupled to a weak starter in the first place. Ya do need a bit of ompf for that first turn. Much more so when everything is cold.

Add one Optima red top to the above and my starting problems are a thing of the past. (fits in the battery box real easy and no more worry about leaks either)

Of course there are still parts of Mr Lucas' wonders lurking about so before most starts I still slaughter a goat etc etc to apease ERG, the electrical repair god.

 

i haven't had much time to mess with the mini but i tried to start it today and nothin'. i tried to jump it and nothin'. so, i took the battery back to auto zone (hate it there, but that's where i bought it), and they tested it. it failed. for $10, they replaced it with a brand new one that has a more cranking amps and i took it home and dropped it in. the car started up right away.

 

congrats!

Always start with the most obvious/basic causes and work forward from there.

 

like he said....

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...utomotive.html

 

i guess that makes me wonder, though, is there any reason why the battery died other than just being a bad battery? it's getting pretty cold here and i wont be driving the mini very much for the next few months. i'm going to start it every other day and let it run for 20 - 30 minutes (maybe take it around the block a few times)...

if there's something wrong with the altenator, i imagine i'll find out.

can the alternator be checked without removing it?

 

Keeping in mind that I don't own a classic Mini (although I've done a little work on an MG) so take this as general automotive experience...

Just starting up the car and letting it idle in many cars won't put out enough volts to charge the battery. You really need to get it up to drive it to charge up the system and replace what you used to start the car.

The alternative might be to get a Battery Tender. You can put in a pigtail with a quick connect on it, and leave it plugged into the tender and it will keep your battery topped off. I use them on my motorcycles, which get inconsistant use. That way I'm sure they are going to start whenever I get to them. They aren't the expensive, and you can get extra long wires, and extra pigtails for them so that you can rotate it between different cars. I sometimes leave a spare battery in the garage with the tender connected to it so that if someone needs a jumpstart I can just pull out this spare battery.

 

Absolutely ... them same autozone guys can roll a tester out to the car and measure the alt' output. Any mechanic should have the same tool.

Should tell you the volts and amps being put out. Mine pumps about 14 volts at high idle - 12 power the car and 2 get shunted to the battery for 'charging' - a simple way to explain it anyway.

Concur about just idling the car in the winter. Often idle speed isn't producing enuf juice. In the olden days of FL vehicle safety inspections they check headlight aim and brightness. If the lites seemed week they'd have you 'rev it up' and usually the lights would get brighter. Also signs of a weakening battery and/or alternator.....

Ya either need to drive it or think about a trickle charger - or the strongest battery you can find (see previous post)

I'm lay odds that you just had a bad battery tho...been there. I hate to spend the bucks too but I'll tell ya the gell-cells in my Miata have lasted l 5 years in cold and HOT clime's. I replaced at 5 years just to be safe but they still cranked the car. Have you ever seen how small the battery is in a Miata? That's why I decided to bite the Optima bullet. Many of the hot-rods I see at shows with real beefy big blocks have switched to Op' .... in addition to the folks that use them for their noise - i mean sound systems. Battery is just one of those places it does not pay to save a couple of bucks.