Hi all...

Just wondering what I should be looking at now (if anything).

Recently, Fiona's started smoking a bit from the tail pipe upon startup. She still starts right up on choke and idles fine, but in the first few seconds after she's sat overnight I get a puff of bluish-white smoke out of the tailpipe. She does NOT smoke on subsequent re-starts. She never smoked like this before, unless she'd been sitting for weeks.

Anything to be worried about? Should I pull the plugs and see if I have unusual carbon or other deposits? Come to think of it, I'm due for a new set of plugs...

Thanks!!

-Matt

 

could be the valve stem seals letting a bit of oil drip into the cylinders which then gets burnt up when you start it

 

Blue smoke usually isn't good...I hope nothing too bad is wrong with her. :(

 

A little smoke from an older car isnt too abnormal. I would say valve stem seals are probably the culprit. Pretty easy to repair.

 

Like everyone else said its probably the valve stem inserts. You are probably noticing it more cause its warmer out and the seals expand and leak more. You can buy oil additive to swell the seals up as a band-aid for the problem if you are not against oil additives. A good way to tell is have someone follow you after you have run it for a bit and then hammer on the engine and see if it throws any more blue smoke. You should not see any more oil smoke if its just a minor valve seal leak. We had an old chevy truck that did this for years without a problem.

You probably want to clean the plugs cause they may be fouled depending on how bad it is.

 

What's the long-term effect of this if I don't get to it right away? I'll have someone follow me after the car's warmed up to see how bad it is. It's definitely getting smokier - when I first noticed it, it was barely anything and now it makes a definite cloud on a full-choke startup.

Also, I already use Castrol High Mileage oil, which is advertisewd to have a seal-sweller. It definitely helps my oil leaks anyway. What additive do you have in mind to delay the repair?

Last, is their a repair kit available from MiniMania or GBCarparts? I don't think I have the mechanical skill to do the job myself, but I do have access to a garage here in Ohio that says they can work on A-series motors. I know they'll need the parts ahead of time, though...

 

+1

Keep a close eye on your oil level Matt. If your Mini has a cat this will kill it. If not then it can run a long way like this.

Pulling the head off an A series & fixing this isn't that hard to do. IMO very DIYable for sure.

Owning a classic means working on that classic too. You can do this.

 

It's probably one of these two parts. This job is all in the labor you usually have the pull the head, put the seals in and re-adjust the valves. Some people claim it can be done without taking the head off but I have never done it myself either way.
http://www.minimania.com/web/Item/2A879/InvDetail.cfm
http://www.minimania.com/web/Item/ADU4905/InvDetail.cfm

Others may disagree but if it was mine I would have the rest of the head reconditioned at the same time if you have the money to do it.

The high mileage oil probably does have the seal sweller as you say but probably at lower concentration. We were putting some kind of "anti-smoke" oil treatment in the chevy which seemed to help for a while. They have all kind of crap like that at you local parts store, I'm not sure if any of its good or what works best though. But it was a work truck and we werent interested in spending money on it. It wasn't so bad during the winter months but this time of year it seemed to smoke more. It was like that for at least 5 years of daily use and is still running fine.

 

I've read it will kill the cat... Good thing I have a cat delete pipe sitting here, just waiting for an excuse to install it.

And I always keep a careful eye on the oil level, especially since my slow leak has come back and I can't seem to find the source. Grrr.

Chuck - are there instructions for pulling the head and replacing the valve seals in that "Tuning the A-Series" book you gave me? I don't want to get halfway through the tear-down only to realize that I can't finish the job - I'd have to tow her... someplace... if that happens. I'm searching for a How-to or an article, but I'm having no luck so far. I'll keep looking.

Are those different sets of seals for different model years, or are they seals for different parts of the valves? If the latter, I can just order full sets of BOTH and replace everything, I think, yes? How many do I need? 8 of each? There are two valves per cylinder, right? Or did I just painfully illustrate just how deep my ignorance runs? (Ducks head in shame...)

 

Honestly I do not remember if David Visard's book has any how-to's in it. My guess is no. I'd assume that he felt if one was going to hot rod an A series he would know how to take it apart & put it together.

You might pick up a Haynes manual. Some call them the "book of lies", but I've found them helpful. You will always need a manual for whatever kind of engine that is being worked on. A manual is as important as the proper tools.

 

Yeah I've got the Haynes BOL... Don't remember if it detailed the full valve job or not but I'll check - I know just what (still unpacked) box it's in! Paul Strieby advises that since I'll have the head off anyway that I might as well do a full valve job, and also clean off the carbon that will doubtless accumulate from the leaky seals.

 

Listen to Paul, he knows what he is talking about. Since that car has run unleaded gas all of its life it may not be too carboned up. But you won't know until you pull the head. In any case a valve job will restore some power to the old girl.

 

Well THAT's good... She's always been a bit on the pokey side IMHO. that's OK - I have a "fast" car, too.

I'm freaked out about pulling off the head though. That there's precision stuff in there, stuff I don't know that much about...

 

You can do it with the head on pretty easily.

Set the piston at TDC on the compression stroke for a given cylinder, pressurize the cylinder with an adapter for a compression tester and air from your compressor, and use a valve spring compressor to get the keepers off. From there, slide the old seals off, use the installation tube (or a straw that fits the valve), lube the seal a bit with some motor oil and tamp them down with a socket that fits the seal snugly.

I can do valve stem seals on an OHV V8 engine in about an hour, its not too bad of a job.

 

Exactly...........easy to do on an A series.

You don't even need a spring compressor, in fact I can't envision how you'd use one with the head on the car. We used to use an appropriately sized deep well socket, just bang it on the retainer and make sure you don't lose the keepers (or collets as the British call them), do them one at a time and Bob's yer uncle.

While you have the spring and seal off check to see how much play is in the valve stem guide by wiggling the end of the valve around, there should be virually no play - if there is, it's time for new valves and guides - and the head has to come off for that. However, the A series motor has to be one of the easiest in the world to learn on, so don't be afraid. Take your time, read the book, take lots of pictures as you work and take notes if needed.

Take the head to a good machine shop for the guide install and to have the seats cut

 

Do it once, do it right.

Pull the head. Send to a machine shop and have it tank cleaned, crack checked, planed/surfaced, valve seats re-ground, valves gound, new guides if needed and new stem seals. Get the VITON tipped stem seals.


For a few hundred $ and a couple saturday's work (one off-one on) you're good as gold for a while. Its a good home mechanic project....

 

Do it once, do it right is all well and good, as long as thats whats needed. Less down time for your toy is good. Pull the head in the winter.

Why pull the head and have all the machine work done if the head is fine? As long as it makes good compression, and the valve stems don't have excessive play, why go through removing the head if it just needs simple valve stem seals?

 

As long as it makes compression. Well that's the question isn't it? First thing to do is to do a leak down test & see what the actual health of the engine is.

I know that you know what you are talking about Rick, but there is very little to no history on this car. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet it needs guides, decoking & a valve job too. If it was mine I'd pull the head & be done with it. It's a very easy lump to work on. Just my .02 here.

 

I agree, Chuck. Without seeing the car or at least knowing a little history, its pretty hard to call.

I just have two ideas of what it COULD possibly be.

The car could have some miles on it, who knows how many, the parts are starting to fail from use. Yeah, probably go ahead and pull the head do a good rebuild. Maybe even check the bottom end and see if you wanna take care of the short block while its apart.

The other side is, maybe the car has lower miles, but the rubber parts are just starting to go from age or no use. The head could be as tight as the day it left the factory, so I would rather just replace the rubber parts in that case, instead of fixing something that doesn't need fixed.

I would at least disassemble the valve train with the head on the car before actually starting to pull head bolts. Do a good diagnosis of the head while on the car, and if nothing else, you will save the cost of the head gasket and head bolt, maybe some other rubber parts.

Leak down and compression test, pull the valve cover, pull the valve train and look at your numbers and diagnose. Then go from there. That's how I personally would do it if it was my car.

 

This all depends on the mechanical ability of the owner. I would recommend a novice just pull it & be done with it rather than muck about trying not to drop a valve into the cylinders. It is a fast and easy (relatively) job and a perfect introduction to a novice owner to the Mini motor. Chances are good a 92 needs some head work after 17 years.....Head work is relatively cheap and it'll be tip top shape upon return from the machinist. A-series heads are also prone to warp & crack.

 

Thanks guys! The depth of knowledge in here always is encouraging. Appreciate you sharing it with me.

First - my car has about 87K on the clock, and is driven regularly - it's more or less my daily driver in the warm months and I drive it even in the winter on sunny days. SOunds like it's just "that time".

Second, I'm not sure about all the tests that you mention need to be done at a machine shop... the Haynes book talks about dissassembly and such, but some of what has been mentioned is Greek to me.

The Book of Lies also states that since special tools are required, it might be more economical and easy for someone like me (a complete novice) to just consider buying a reconditioned head as a unit. I assume such a thing would have a core charge that would be refunded when I send in my current, leaky head? I'm honestly not sure what I should do - I really WOULD love to learn how to do this, but I also know that the odds of me getting partway through the process only to be tripped up by a missing special tool, part or knowledge of the "right" way to proceed are fairly high...

Decisions, decisions...

 

Time to buy some tools & start twisting wrenches. When you take the head off ask the local Mini folks who they recommend as a machine shop, they will know. No reason to buy another head unless you find yours is trash. There is a great resource of Mini knowledge in central Ohio, time to ask for their advice & help.

 

Agreed... I hate to be "that guy" - always begging for help though. I wish we had a more active classic community here - I know a guy who has an MG, and they all get together on a regular basis as a group to do things like this as teaching exercises. Now THAT would be cool.

But, as they say, you can wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first, right?

 

The A series is just about the easiest engine to learn mechanican' on there is, I would not be afraid of it, but if you wanted to do an exchange head, you could have it apart and together again in 1 day, and I'm confidant that even a rank novice can easily and safely do this job. About the only special tool you'd need is a torque wrench, which you can buy for $20 at your local Sears or Harbor Freight store - and that's something you should have in your tool box anyway.

I understand that you'd feel a lot better having someone experienced looking over your shoulder the first time, but most of us learned the same way you are, by rolling up our sleeves and getting our hands dirty. Plus you can always take some photos and post the up here if you have a question, at least you know you'll get plenty of good and immediate advice.

Lastly think of how good you'll feel the first time you fire it up and it runs fine!

I taught my daughter how to work on her car, and one day while she was at college her sunroof stuck open. I sent her the parts and a manual and she rebuilt it completely - by herself! And sunroofs can be very finicky and complicated. If she can do it, I'm sure you can......

 

Hehehe... I know you're probably right. I just have this nightmare image of trying to start her up the first time, and seeing a rod or a valve go flying out of the head or something...

A good friend who knows these little cars has volunteered to look over my shoulder while I try this, so I'll likely start assembling the parts and then pull it apart in the fall. Sounds like I might as well go for a full valve job while I have the head off.

QUESTION:

The Haynes book talks quite a bit about lapping the valves in order to get a perfect, gas-tight seal. How difficult is this part of the process? The things that worry me are not general dissassembly/re-assembly, but rather that last .5% that, in my experience, generally separates a good, quality repair that will last from one that actually makes things WORSE. I did 2 years as a service writer at a Honda motorcycle dealer, and watching the mechanics at work there showed me that there is almost always a special (and generally uundocumented) way to make the repair perfectly, and that secret way can only be learned via direct experience.