Avoiding the Re-Vin Classic Mini
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3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
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Silver, it has nothing to do with the monetary value of the car, dear lord I have more money in mine that I will ever get out of it. The money I save in gas I pay in upkeep and parts, noone knows that better, so if you still own your SP Mini when it does come of age will you then retitle it with it's real numbers? When I am able by law to buy a SP in this country the fact that yours is already here and identified as someting else changes the entire dynamics of the economy of Minis in this country and others. I know everyone thinks that one Mini is just one car, that is thinking in the now, and I understand the instant gratification of living in the moment and let following generations fend for themselves.
If this was about money, I would not have spent 36 years protecting not only my investment but the investment of Sir Alec Issigonis, and plan to pass this car and to protect this car and it's heritage at least as long as I live, and my sons will carry it into the next 50 years or it will be donated to a museum somewhere. The Classic Mini is by far the greatest car ever mass produced. Some might argue, but not with me
I know I have gotten off on the wrong foot with many of the newer Mini owners and maybe some seasoned veterans too, but until it is legal I dont believe that eBay should be used to sell illegal cars. And if I see them I will be posting Buyer Beware posts again and again. No need to debate, no need to threaten me, call me names, my posts have been neutral siding with the law and policies of a websites these cars are on. The dealers can deal all day long on their own websites, fool who they may just like the thread about the 69/75 Mini in SC.
And yes the silver is aerodynamic.
If this was about money, I would not have spent 36 years protecting not only my investment but the investment of Sir Alec Issigonis, and plan to pass this car and to protect this car and it's heritage at least as long as I live, and my sons will carry it into the next 50 years or it will be donated to a museum somewhere. The Classic Mini is by far the greatest car ever mass produced. Some might argue, but not with me
I know I have gotten off on the wrong foot with many of the newer Mini owners and maybe some seasoned veterans too, but until it is legal I dont believe that eBay should be used to sell illegal cars. And if I see them I will be posting Buyer Beware posts again and again. No need to debate, no need to threaten me, call me names, my posts have been neutral siding with the law and policies of a websites these cars are on. The dealers can deal all day long on their own websites, fool who they may just like the thread about the 69/75 Mini in SC. And yes the silver is aerodynamic.
Last edited by Mercy; Sep 3, 2008 at 08:24 PM.
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3rd Gear
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AVOID this thread at all costs if you don't want to waste your time. This happened the last time I posted a Buyer Beware post on another board. Every Re-vin owner had something to say. Accusation, names and threats all levied at me for making people aware of this practice. If everyone knows about it and it is no big deal you would think they would just be quite and quit trying to justify or prove something that means nothing until the law changes.
Last edited by Mercy; Sep 3, 2008 at 09:04 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Las Vegas
The basic reason people buy re-vin'ed Mini's is because that may be the only way to get one. I'm sure you know that when we upped the safety requirements for new cars the Mini couldn't do it and they simply stopped selling them over here. A ReVin is simply a way to get a true Mini. Are there crooks out there...of course there are. But I'll bet that the vast majority of ReVins are just folks trying to there hands on a pretty cool little car.
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3rd Gear
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You are absolutely right. I do understand the desire, I look for every excuse to get in mine and DRIVE! I personally don't care if someone drives a re-vin, enjoys the heck out of it, it is when they try and sell it and it is available to the general public as something it is not. The entire Mini world may know about re-vins, but not the entire MINI world, I have had MINI owners ask me what I was driving, not a clue that it was the car that made theirs possible. Another lady said, hey that car is smaller than a MINI Cooper. LOL.. I guess I am the oddball that care more about the car and its future than the people who cheat to get them. In the 70s and 80s it was hard getting parts let alone whole cars, now with the onset of the Internet you can get just about anything and rules dont seem to apply.
6th Gear
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It truly amazes me that just because it has been going on and that it is somehow an acceptable practice that it makes it ok or that we should just look the other way. That's what is BS. I will talk about this and I will make people aware of it that don't know any better. It only becomes inflammatory when people start trying to defend their own actions. I made a post on MM that needed no response, I made a post here that needs no response, it is Buyer Beware, this is a fake illegal Mini for sale and not only is it fake it is a bad fake, It might be the most beautiful car on the planet but it is not a 1960 MK1 Mini. Period, the ad is a lie and in direct violation of eBay policies as well. And as you just stated to the fact it goes on all the time. The internet has taken something that very rarely happened in the past before the Internet to an acceptable rule to break because of the ease it is done with and it floods the market with cars that would have great value to this country and to the market if they were legal, but when they do come of age and are now legal Minis to have, lets say a 1990 mint condition Mini in the year 2015 I can now import legally, huh all the 1990 cars are registered as 1970 Minis and cant be had except with destroyed valueless titles and vin tags. Not only are you defacing an historical icon but ruining thier futures just so people can have slick newer Minis in this country before they are legal.
Bottom line is it is a crime, it is against the law. That is in no way inflammatory, judgemental or biased.
The fact that it is currently illegal gives the subject no room for debate so the laws no matter how silly they are or how easy it is to break them need to be changed or obeyed or dont drive one unless you can find one legally that has been in this country before the laws applied or take advantage of the 25 year classic rule and get a 1983 and modify the snot out of it, any Mini regardless of age can be made to be as nice as any others, Having a look at Norm's stuff says it all.
Whatever, we all can agree the Mini is the coolest car on the planet, I dont blame anyone doing whatever they can to drive one. If the shoe was on the other foot, I can not honestly say that being new to the car and wanting one bad that I wouldnt care where it came from, but from the side of the ball that I am looking at the Minis are being destroyed by altering their heritage, that is a very sad state of affairs.
I am entitled to speak up without being called names, voice my opinion, I had no intention of blowing the whistle on anyone but threatening me, telling me to watch my back and so on from the MM boards, I am glad they took it down. It's obviously a heated subject that **** people off. And have no concern over the BMW Mini owner or any newbie wanting a "true" classic, they already know what its like to drive a fake one... sorry BMW
Bottom line is it is a crime, it is against the law. That is in no way inflammatory, judgemental or biased.
The fact that it is currently illegal gives the subject no room for debate so the laws no matter how silly they are or how easy it is to break them need to be changed or obeyed or dont drive one unless you can find one legally that has been in this country before the laws applied or take advantage of the 25 year classic rule and get a 1983 and modify the snot out of it, any Mini regardless of age can be made to be as nice as any others, Having a look at Norm's stuff says it all.
Whatever, we all can agree the Mini is the coolest car on the planet, I dont blame anyone doing whatever they can to drive one. If the shoe was on the other foot, I can not honestly say that being new to the car and wanting one bad that I wouldnt care where it came from, but from the side of the ball that I am looking at the Minis are being destroyed by altering their heritage, that is a very sad state of affairs.
I am entitled to speak up without being called names, voice my opinion, I had no intention of blowing the whistle on anyone but threatening me, telling me to watch my back and so on from the MM boards, I am glad they took it down. It's obviously a heated subject that **** people off. And have no concern over the BMW Mini owner or any newbie wanting a "true" classic, they already know what its like to drive a fake one... sorry BMW
I didn't call you names. But you don't seem to understand the reaction of the majority of Mini owners. That is, live & let live.
Your crusade for truth, righteousness, justice and the American way of life serves no purpose, whatsoever other than to alienate yourself from most Mini owners.
Again, this subject is nothing new. Stir things up enough and maybe some poor, unknowing schmuck will get his pride & joy Mini crushed by Customs. Is that what you're after?
No good can come of this. All responses I've ever seen to noobs on Mini boards about such re-vin'd Minis have pointed them in the right direction to discover for themselves what they are looking at. This effort of yours is unecessary and potentially harmful to many good Mini people.
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Windsor, Colorado
changes the entire dynamics of the economy of Minis in this country and others.
let following generations fend for themselves.
I would not have spent 36 years protecting investment of Sir Alec Issigonis, and plan to pass this car and to protect this car and it's heritage at least as long as I live
it will be donated to a museum somewhere.
The Classic Mini is by far the greatest car ever mass produced.
I didn't know there was such a thing as a "Mini Economy", sounds like Greed to me.
"Will someone please think of the children!" Our kids will be far better informed than we were because of information technology, I'm sure they can handle it.
The British have had a long history of protecting their heritage, way more than us Yanks, so I will leave that job to the experts
Museums only want original unmolested, unaltered cars for their collections to represent what a particular car was back in the day, not what some guy in his garage felt was a better interpretation of that car. Remember that a car is original only once.
I think the VW Beetle fans might disagree with you.
Mercy, I'm sure you are a great guy and do not wish anyone ill will, but I don't think any of us can sit here and claim to have never broken a motor vehicle law, such as.......Speeding...Illegal right,left,u-turns....running red lights..........parking violations......and so on. We all try to be good humans and get along with one another. but sometimes we need to just step back for a moment from our cars and realize that there are far more important things in life than a piece of steel.
Just my .02
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3rd Gear
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Anyone trying to pass off a Mini as something it is not is not some poor shmuck as you say and deserve to have his car crushed because he knows exactly what he is doing. Dealers that buy illegal Minis and bring them into this country or sellers that put them on eBay are not unaware of what they are doing. Its really a shame that so many of you think that this is a practice that deserves to be swept under the rug and ignored.
If I see a Mini with deceptive advertising for sale will be targeted and spoken about and posted as such. I said nothing about anyone elses car, I am not on here looking for people driving re-vins, targetting anyones car, just those who think that they can go unchecked when trying to fraud the general public.
If the Mini world find this practice acceptable and have no problem with it, then the people selling these cars should sell them to other Mini owners that dont give a crap whether their cars are legal or not, not to the general public, my biggest problem with all this is that it is on eBay where the uninformed come across them, and when they go to places like forums to find out more information, the information they get is it's ok, go ahead everyone does it.
If I see a Mini with deceptive advertising for sale will be targeted and spoken about and posted as such. I said nothing about anyone elses car, I am not on here looking for people driving re-vins, targetting anyones car, just those who think that they can go unchecked when trying to fraud the general public.
If the Mini world find this practice acceptable and have no problem with it, then the people selling these cars should sell them to other Mini owners that dont give a crap whether their cars are legal or not, not to the general public, my biggest problem with all this is that it is on eBay where the uninformed come across them, and when they go to places like forums to find out more information, the information they get is it's ok, go ahead everyone does it.
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3rd Gear
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The British have had a long history of protecting their heritage, way more than us Yanks, so I will leave that job to the experts
Mercy, I'm sure you are a great guy and do not wish anyone ill will, but I don't think any of us can sit here and claim to have never broken a motor vehicle law, such as.......Speeding...Illegal right,left,u-turns....running red lights..........parking violations......and so on. We all try to be good humans and get along with one another. but sometimes we need to just step back for a moment from our cars and realize that there are far more important things in life than a piece of steel.
Just my .02
And no, none of us can say we have not had infractions of traffic laws, but lets be real, these aren't federal offenses considered felonies either.
Live and let live and say nothing and let some poor smuck unknowingly buy a car that could potentially be crushed and land him in jail and all because it is ok with you and the majority of Mini owners because we all just look the other way and think it is ok. You dont have anything to worry about and it doesnt effect you so I dont get why you are so passionate about confronting me about it. Same with everyone else. My very first post, targets an auction for a car that is illegal and on eBay nothing more, I didnt condemn the Mini, any specific Mini owner, or anyone's car. Just bringing light to deceptive ads and auctions and brought to light a practice that is illegal. It really should not have gone any further than that, BUT the folks driving these cars always have something to say instead of live and let live as you say. What part of that expression are you abiding by concerning your dealing with me?
6th Gear
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Yeah and we yanks are proving just how fast we can destroy the British heritage.
And no, none of us can say we have not had infractions of traffic laws, but lets be real, these aren't federal offenses considered felonies either.
Live and let live and say nothing and let some poor smuck unknowingly buy a car that could potentially be crushed and land him in jail and all because it is ok with you and the majority of Mini owners because we all just look the other way and think it is ok. You dont have anything to worry about and it doesnt effect you so I dont get why you are so passionate about confronting me about it. Same with everyone else. My very first post, targets an auction for a car that is illegal and on eBay nothing more, I didnt condemn the Mini, any specific Mini owner, or anyone's car. Just bringing light to deceptive ads and auctions and brought to light a practice that is illegal. It really should not have gone any further than that, BUT the folks driving these cars always have something to say instead of live and let live as you say. What part of that expression are you abiding by concerning your dealing with me?
And no, none of us can say we have not had infractions of traffic laws, but lets be real, these aren't federal offenses considered felonies either.
Live and let live and say nothing and let some poor smuck unknowingly buy a car that could potentially be crushed and land him in jail and all because it is ok with you and the majority of Mini owners because we all just look the other way and think it is ok. You dont have anything to worry about and it doesnt effect you so I dont get why you are so passionate about confronting me about it. Same with everyone else. My very first post, targets an auction for a car that is illegal and on eBay nothing more, I didnt condemn the Mini, any specific Mini owner, or anyone's car. Just bringing light to deceptive ads and auctions and brought to light a practice that is illegal. It really should not have gone any further than that, BUT the folks driving these cars always have something to say instead of live and let live as you say. What part of that expression are you abiding by concerning your dealing with me?
I said, the Mini community does a pretty good job (in a low key manner) of informing newbies of what the reality is regarding re-vins. Freedom of choice is what it is all about. Do I, or have I ever owned an illegal car? No. Would I? I don't know. Maybe. But that's a risk/judgement I must make. Free will, remember.My point was unintended consequences of your actions. You rail against this situation over which you can never have any control or influence. Possibly, you may get some unsuspecting individual in trouble. Is it worth it? Or is that what you're after?
As far as following the letter of the law. Well, alcohol was illegal. Did it stop it? We've spent billions on the alleged "war on drugs". Did it stop it? It is illegal to pollute? Does it stop corporations from doing so? Look at Wall Street, banking, mortgage lenders, ad nauseum. You're not going to change human behavior anymore than the majority of Mini owners can influence you to stifle yourself.
As said, I bet you're probably a decent guy and in person may get along okay with everyone. But, on the internet you come across as excessively pedantic on this issue. This is not worth all the stress.
Chill. 
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3rd Gear
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I am sure we would get along great. and I was willing to chill after the first post. And no.. I have a hard enough time changing my own behavior let alone anyone else. My initial post was intended specifically for the person like the lady that asked questions and did not know, the MINI owner not aware, the general public looking for information. Gentlemen, if you own a SP newer mini congrats, I bet you love the heck out of it and you managed to get it into the country, kudos! Just don't go selling it on eBay unless you want unwanted attention directed at it and we can all chill together.
6th Gear
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And my Mini has it's original VIN# on the glass and on the body and the fake VIN tag on the radiator support, it's also on the California title. The EPA & DOT paperwork I got from the owner in Indiana has the original VIN# on them. I don't consider my car a fake or illegal car--------it's a 1998 Rover Mini(14,311 produced) Sportpack....and damn proud of it
This MINI/Mini community is not for HATERS! We are here for each other and to promote the Motoring lifestyle
This MINI/Mini community is not for HATERS! We are here for each other and to promote the Motoring lifestyle
If anyhting, I thought Cali was WORSE even - I read in another forum that California not only requires the car to be more than 25 years old to qualify but that it ALSO must have been a model sold in the US? Perhaps that was misinformation - there's a lot of that floating aorund. Re: haters - I totally agree, but I don't think that's what the OP was doing. I thinik he (she? - this is the web so God only knows) had good intentions, it was just a miscommunication. That's why I advised to participate in the (awesome... incredible) community here for a while, so we have a baseline from which to judge.
However:
Anyone trying to pass off a Mini as something it is not is not some poor shmuck as you say and deserve to have his car crushed because he knows exactly what he is doing. Dealers that buy illegal Minis and bring them into this country or sellers that put them on eBay are not unaware of what they are doing. Its really a shame that so many of you think that this is a practice that deserves to be swept under the rug and ignored.
I agree with the comment on us all being rule-breakers. The 25 year rule was primarily a safety and emissions rule and not something intended to "protect the Mini economy" as far as I understand it. Can you honestly tell me that you've never knowingly broken the speed limit or something else? In a black-and-white, "rules are rules" world, you're just as guilty as someone that dares import a "fake" (in your worldview) Mini. Should we crush YOUR car, if some irregularity were ever discovered? Personally, I'd never, ever advocate that - I love Minis too much to want any of them damaged or destroyed.
But then again, I doubt my car would pass your exacting standards.
Last edited by ImagoX; Sep 4, 2008 at 10:13 AM.
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3rd Gear
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In 1960 when the car was imported into the US there were no laws concerning imports, My dad did not import the car when it was 10 years old, and in 1972 when he bought it again they were still legally importing the cars, and in 1972 the emission laws were not in effect. And you are right in calling me to the carpet about crushing a Mini, I don't want to see any Mini crushed, It makes me wince when I see them rolling them and pushing them out the back of the bus in the Italian Job. It is only the brazen disregard for federal laws and then to sell them for what they are not that has me up in arms. It is a disgrace to those of us who abide by the import laws and have waited patiently for 30+ years for newer legal Minis to come on the scene and if you compare traffic laws to federal felony laws is like comparing j-walking to murder. Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. we all have knowingly and unknowingly have broken traffic laws, but not everyone breaks federal laws. If speeding was a felony, you can be rest assured people would not break that law knowingly at least the "honest" law abiding folks that don't want to go to jail. I said I would chill so that's what I am doing.. no need to debate this issue any further. I did what I came to do and that was to expose one car and one deceptive seller. If people know him or the car, I did not mean to step on any toes, especially those like yourself that enjoy your vehicles and purpose not to decieve anyone about its origin, its make and model. Kudos for posting its real vintage. You would be the type that I could join arms with and fight to get the laws changed, because I too think they are ludicrous, I just chose not to challenge them by breaking them with the potential of jail time and the possibility of having my car crushed.. I do understand taking a stand and sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to get things done, so I dont have a challenge one with you or your car.
6th Gear
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History:
Minis became illegal for importation in 1968. That's when the first DOT/NHTSA safety standards took effect. It wasn't worth the effort to make Minis comply, as at that time BLMC was losing money on each one it sold anyway.
Establishment of the EPA rules and tighter safety standards around 1975 sealed the deal on Minis until the regulations were revised in the mid-1990's. Until the mid 90's, all imported cars had to be pre-1968. Unless you used the "race car"
exemption. After then, they shifted to a "rolling" date of 25 years old for DOT/NHSTA standards and 20 years old for EPA standards (with the more restrictive - older - rule taking precedence). Since the 90's lot's of legal minis have been brought in. Some have taken advantage of the ubquitous look of Minis and changed VIN plates. Others still, have been legally (UK) reshelled and brought in.
Minis became illegal for importation in 1968. That's when the first DOT/NHTSA safety standards took effect. It wasn't worth the effort to make Minis comply, as at that time BLMC was losing money on each one it sold anyway.
Establishment of the EPA rules and tighter safety standards around 1975 sealed the deal on Minis until the regulations were revised in the mid-1990's. Until the mid 90's, all imported cars had to be pre-1968. Unless you used the "race car"
exemption. After then, they shifted to a "rolling" date of 25 years old for DOT/NHSTA standards and 20 years old for EPA standards (with the more restrictive - older - rule taking precedence). Since the 90's lot's of legal minis have been brought in. Some have taken advantage of the ubquitous look of Minis and changed VIN plates. Others still, have been legally (UK) reshelled and brought in.
5th Gear
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SOME 68 THAT were already here were sold as 67s....Should we warn people about those as well?
What a terrible thing to have a big rear window and tail lamps!!!!!!!!
How about the cars that were upgraded to the bigger tails, but are registered as pre68....do those cause you consternation?
What a terrible thing to have a big rear window and tail lamps!!!!!!!!
How about the cars that were upgraded to the bigger tails, but are registered as pre68....do those cause you consternation?
1st Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Wow, I thought you would just give up after "getting your teeth handed to you," as you so eloquently put it. Maybe if you weren't so high up on your soapbox when speaking to the masses your message would be better received.
I still get the feeling that you are going about this "save the mini" crusade of yours because you, or someone that you know, failed to properly research an intended purchase and got burned trying to register a re-vin, it happens every now and then, and ocassionally it happens to some poor unsuspecting guy that wanted mothing more than to own and drive one of the coolest ltittle cars on the planet.
Well one thing's for sure, your approach has mellowed a bit from your outing on the Minimaina forum. Just a bit.
I still get the feeling that you are going about this "save the mini" crusade of yours because you, or someone that you know, failed to properly research an intended purchase and got burned trying to register a re-vin, it happens every now and then, and ocassionally it happens to some poor unsuspecting guy that wanted mothing more than to own and drive one of the coolest ltittle cars on the planet.
Well one thing's for sure, your approach has mellowed a bit from your outing on the Minimaina forum. Just a bit.
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3rd Gear
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Mike,
No.. it really had more to do with the private conversation I was having with the seller, he may have been quite in the MM forums but a total *** in private, arrogant, thumbing his nose at those who know that his re-vin is just that, I asked him a simple question that any noob might ask and he continued his deception and was very flippant. He deserves to be shut down. I don't really care about re-vins except when you try to deceive the public. He now has a shadow. And just like in the MM forums, exposing the practice sure brings out the best in people
As far as my soapbox, it is 4ft wide, 4 ft tall and 10 ft long. 30+ years of driving the coolest car on the planet and I am entitled whether anyone thinks so or not.
No.. it really had more to do with the private conversation I was having with the seller, he may have been quite in the MM forums but a total *** in private, arrogant, thumbing his nose at those who know that his re-vin is just that, I asked him a simple question that any noob might ask and he continued his deception and was very flippant. He deserves to be shut down. I don't really care about re-vins except when you try to deceive the public. He now has a shadow. And just like in the MM forums, exposing the practice sure brings out the best in people
As far as my soapbox, it is 4ft wide, 4 ft tall and 10 ft long. 30+ years of driving the coolest car on the planet and I am entitled whether anyone thinks so or not.
Last edited by Mercy; Sep 4, 2008 at 06:31 PM. Reason: adding more!
1st Gear
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I don't understand the point of this?
It's the buyers' responsibility to research before handing over thousands of dollars. The information is out there.
Yeah - technically some cars are here illegally.
Is it a rule? Yes.
Is it a rule worth enforcing? Absolutely not.
I haven't heard anything about Mini owners going to jail yet? Has this happened?
It's the buyers' responsibility to research before handing over thousands of dollars. The information is out there.
Yeah - technically some cars are here illegally.
Is it a rule? Yes.
Is it a rule worth enforcing? Absolutely not.
I haven't heard anything about Mini owners going to jail yet? Has this happened?
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3rd Gear
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The point is to let people know that if they chose to ignore the rules that Minis can be crushed and it is a felony to re-vin any car, so yes the opportunity to go to jail is real.
Is it a good rule, NO. But it is a federal law.
Have people gone to jail over re-vining a car, sure, a mini specifically, not sure.
Is it a good rule, NO. But it is a federal law.
Have people gone to jail over re-vining a car, sure, a mini specifically, not sure.
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3rd Gear
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Yeah it all went south in a hurry. The drivers of re-vin vehicles get a bit upset when you make it known or speak out about it. If you see the first post was all about one car on eBay and to avoid it because it was a re-vin and misrepresented.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Penryn, CA
I have to confess...I sped while in Yellowstone in my Honda powered Mini; two federal laws broken in a mere moment of self love.
And that tag that is a federal offence to remove from my mattress...uggg...yes...it's true...I took it off.
And then I was talking about an NFL game to some friends without expressed written consent...ahhhhh...the horror...but true...
I hope you all can forgive me.
And that tag that is a federal offence to remove from my mattress...uggg...yes...it's true...I took it off.
And then I was talking about an NFL game to some friends without expressed written consent...ahhhhh...the horror...but true...
I hope you all can forgive me.
Last edited by meno; Sep 24, 2008 at 08:14 PM.