Webb Motorsports PULLEY PARTY at AMVIV!
#76
Hey Randy. I'll will most likely be sharing that same space with you this year. I'm going to grab the same corner I did last year. That way if I loose my tent again I won't kill anyone The rest of you may no9t want to park under me just in case JK I'm coming prepared this year
So I think your good with taking up the other corner.
Something else that I'll talk to you about in PM
So I think your good with taking up the other corner.
Something else that I'll talk to you about in PM
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Be sure to stop by for the tech talks each day as well - we will be doing several. Thursday will be suspension, considering most of the day is a suspension install sign up. Saturday will be engine with all of the pulley upgrades. Friday will be open line Friday with anything anyone wants to discuss! If you have never seen one, we discuss everything with the car apart for you to see - a very visual tech talk. For the engine talk, I have the entire motor in the air for the pulley install an go through the entire induction and exhaust loop, hitting the highlights specific to the MINI. Those that have seen a tech talk can shed light on the experience. Most people get a kick out of my description of the Cooper S's four strokes...
Randy
Randy
I've kinda thought I would stay away from mods because of the money, but now I'm getting intrigued. Can you briefly explain the benefits of a pulley and/or intake? I've had a vew people tell me that a cold air intake will make a big difference but don't know much about pulleys.
Also, my MINI is pretty new... does adding a pulley or intake void the warranty?
Looking forward to meeting you in Vegas.
#83
Randy... this will be my first time at AMVIV (not to mention a big MINI event) and this sounds pretty interesting... I'm not mechanical but would like to learn more about my car.
I've kinda thought I would stay away from mods because of the money, but now I'm getting intrigued. Can you briefly explain the benefits of a pulley and/or intake? I've had a vew people tell me that a cold air intake will make a big difference but don't know much about pulleys.
Also, my MINI is pretty new... does adding a pulley or intake void the warranty?
Looking forward to meeting you in Vegas.
I've kinda thought I would stay away from mods because of the money, but now I'm getting intrigued. Can you briefly explain the benefits of a pulley and/or intake? I've had a vew people tell me that a cold air intake will make a big difference but don't know much about pulleys.
Also, my MINI is pretty new... does adding a pulley or intake void the warranty?
Looking forward to meeting you in Vegas.
This is a clip from my FAQ over on www.webbmotorsports.com -
My thoughts on appropriate pulley reduction are based on a lot of time spent on the subject - including track testing with real-time data gathering of manifold inlet, supercharger outlet and water temps, long engineering discussions with Eaton (the manufacturer of our supercharger), and plenty of dyno testing.
We started developing the supercharger pulleys in the US before most all of the aftermarket, including the "factory" aftermarket - John Cooper Works. I started with a 10%, 12%, 15% and 18% reduction from stock. What we came up with after all that testing was that the 15% is the optimum reduction based on several factors. Remember that the goal of all of this is to have the highest DENSITY air parcel at the inlet port to the combustion chamber. Density is directly proportional to pressure and indirectly proportional to temperature, or D=p/t .
That makes the most significant performance factor the adiabatic efficiency rate of the Eaton supercharger at increased RPM. In short, it isn't great. The forte of the Roots type supercharger (which includes the Eaton) is high efficiency at low boost - giving rapid response without "lag". The faster you spin the rotors, the more you compress the air going through it - however, you are also increasing the heat (remember that from physics - anytime you compress you also heat). Some rotor designs minimize the effect of this, but the Roots does not. All of that means that while you are increasing pressure, at some point the heat you generate with additional compression will outweigh the pressure increase, and that point is with a 15% at about 5400RPM and higher. You also need to outweigh the fact that you are causing additional drag on the crank pulley by spinning at a higher resistance when you are forcing a higher parcel compression.
The other factors are more reliability based. The most significant of these is belt life. No matter which belt we try to use, they all fail with anything greater than a 15% reduction pulley on the track. I have three cars we have used on the street and track with higher reductions than 15% for data gathering, and even on the street it is a 50/50 on the belt failing. We have tried literally every belt on the market, and the issue is not corrected.
Also related to reliability, but much less of an issue, is the water pump speed. We didn't think this was an issue at first, until we started monitoring oil temp as well as coolant temp. On the track, we noticed elevated oil temps that we didn't see with 15% pulleys. It took a bit to figure this one out, but if the pump is cavitating, it will show first on oil temp. The reason behind it has to do with the volume of water and its movement through the entire head versus through the oil cooler. On the MINI, the oil is cooled with a water-oil exchanger. The water volume is great enough in the entire system that a small flow change does not effect coolant temp at the coolant temp sensor, but with the small volume in the oil cooler, the oil is not cooled as efficiently if the flow is decreased even a small amount, resulting in higher oil temps. This seems only to be an issue with the 19% reduction pulley at sustained high RPM.
I have personally installed over 800 15% reduction pulleys, and have not had a single issue with any of them. I have installed 4 pulleys greater than 15% reductions, and have had issues with all of them. Based on this, the preliminary testing we did, manufacturer discussions, and the fact that a few months after we came out with a 15% reduction recommendation John Cooper Works came out with a pulley on their supercharger that was within .03" of a 15% reduction, I can confidently say that the 15% reduction pulley is the best choice for not only performance, but reliability as well.
That covers most questions about the pulley - I offer a warranty with my installs that is the best in the business (of any aftermarket, not just the MINI aftermarket).
Hope that helps!
Randy
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Randy -- Thanks for all of the information. I'm not sure I got it all, but you definitely sound like the man for pulley installation. I'm impressed when someone goes through the kind of testing and research you do to make sure a product works.
I may wait this time but will drop by your booth.
Thanks!
I may wait this time but will drop by your booth.
Thanks!
#87
Randy,
I would like to slip into the 3:30 on Friday for a SC Pulley if it is still open. And if you don't think my car will be too hot from the drive down from SLC. I am leaving Friday morning early. So there may be time for it to cool before 3:30. I will try and post to your site as well. I just reg'd so I am waiting for the admin email.
Thanks,
Ryan (roggenmini)
I would like to slip into the 3:30 on Friday for a SC Pulley if it is still open. And if you don't think my car will be too hot from the drive down from SLC. I am leaving Friday morning early. So there may be time for it to cool before 3:30. I will try and post to your site as well. I just reg'd so I am waiting for the admin email.
Thanks,
Ryan (roggenmini)
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