I think this is the basic dilemma faced by MOTD. Grassroots organizing makes it great, but such organizing can only go so far. What happens when it gets too big for the group and the area to handle? I have the impression the dinners were close to that point already. Some folks did not mind the delays and other problems, but a fair number did. What happens when 600 people want to attend a dinner next year?

Making it more DIY might solve this problem, or it might make it far worse. I hope its the former, but am no expert.

 

Where exactly did you go? Either myself, my wife, Mark Ferguson, or a few other volunteers manned the check-in table in the Rec Center during all of the times posted here on NAM. There may have been a brief 20 minute periord on Friday that got missed due to delays in getting back to the Fontana and some meal issues but other than that the table was manned... Did you go to the Chili Cookoff? It was manned that entire time....

As for the calls for professional event planners to move in, remember there is a cost associated with them, and it isn't cheap. Especially when they have to take over an existing event like this and put it on in a relatively remote location like Deal's Gap. In order to cover the costs associated in hiring such a planner, the registration fees would probably have to rise significantly, and that may actually chase people away from the event.

Personally, since no single person does it all, I think this can be an all volunteer event for many years to come. It's because so many clubs are involved in putting this on, and that the labor is so well divided among those clubs that I think it will be quite a long time before this event outgrows the ability for it to be coordinated by a group of volunteers.

 

I would like very much to be wrong about the need to bring in professionals at some point, and so will not belabor the point.


I tried to pick up my registration packet on Friday morning before the rally, but could not find anyone. I got it later, though, so really not a problem.

 

Bringing professional organizers in will kill the fun and carefree vibe of our MINI Dragon event. If that ever happens, you can definitely count me out. Blech....


Clover

 

There's a feedback form coming eventually, correct? If so, I'll save my comments for that.

 

Yes, as soon as Mark can get it set up. Thanks for being patient.

 

I had a great time thank you.

Perhaps a consultant to offer some ideas as to how to deal with events that are growing at this rate.

 

I like your thoughts about smaller groups and staggered start times, we tried to do that, and planned more stops for the groups 2& 3,
Growing pains, ,,, Ric and I did a dry run and spent all of Friday (instead of doing a lot of other fun things), and Realized then that this group size was outa control, We recruited Chad and Phil to lead the smaller groups, niether had driven it before, Complicating things there was an Independent group of MINIS that had arrived at the restroom stop ahead of us and slowed the organized drive down, They also at one point pulled off the road, blocking half a lane(not in one of the three zillion pull offs ?), I asked them on the Talk about that if they, too, were going to the Falls that they do so promptly before the organized drive arrived,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no one had the courtesy to respond or acknowledge that request?

So yes it did not go off as intended, but ,,growing pains

I know that My suggestion for next year is that others step up and improve on what has happenned this year, some of us who were manning info stations and organizing drives, and burning their Chili, did not get to enjoy all their is to enjoy at the Dragon, and I for one intend to step back and enjoy it to the fullest next year!

And again Thanks to all who made this years Event a great one!

Volunteers step up! 2006 is ready to start the countdown

Edited

 

I haven't been, still enjoy what I'm hearing, got this to say:

Don't like the fee structure? Put in a little sweat equity, that might help bring it down. A donation system, ongoing outside of registration fees, could be a "financial buffer" for unforeseen expenses.

It kills me that folks are arguing with MINI fans so ardent and devoted that they've sacrificed significant free time and peace of mind, and their own freedom to enjoy the Dragon events, so others could come and share.

Rant off!

 

Folks need to remember that organizers of events are making sacrifices when they volunteer their time. Organizers need to remember this as well. I was a bit disappointed in how uninformed the registration folks were when I arrived. They were still trying to figure out how to get folks checked in. Fontana's Front Desk indicated the registration was starting at 2pm. I arrived at 2:00 and a couple of folks were just starting to get set up. By 3:30 they still were not ready to check folks in.

I know organizers want to have fun too, but you have to remember that folks are counting on you for information, help, and leadership.

More events are needed. Not just driving routes, but we need more of those as well. There are tons of roads up there just waiting to be tamed. But other things are needed as well. White water rafting (something I am considering organizing for next year) for example.

 

From one Phil to another. I have organized "runs" for our Miata club. I have done it with the whole group going out at once and with groups goung out in stages. The stages work sooo much better. We do 15 minute intervals and on a 150 mile trip we did not run into one incident where we had conflict. These were groups of 15 cars, with groups of 20 cars, I would look to do 20-25 min intervals. Groups can be set up according to driving style, more "spirited" driverd are on the first group, then work your way back to the "sight see'ers". If you do "hour" intervals, you could have people waiting for 2+ HOURS before they leave, trust me that is not fun either.

 

Well, that makes sense why you didn't find anyone --- all the reg peoples were down at the dam (as per the times posted here) to do a "mini" reg just to get the insurance cards in your windows. We didn't open the big reg desk until later in the day.

I see a few comments about organizers needing to be know/do more. It really isn't an issue that we all just wanted to have fun and let our duties slip; personally, my butt is smaller and I have no voice to show for the weekend. (Side note: the people at work think I smoked and drank all weekend ). The reality is that we need more help. There are many ways to help out; but I think that if we are honest about wanting to keep the "grassroots" feel of this event; then no one who shows up should feel like it is being "put on for them" everyone should take an active part in some piece of the pie. There were literally about 50 to 60 people this year who took on a major role in some piece. I'm including the fine folks who throw on a dinner; who manned the check-in; who worked near daily with the various places in NC (and with TVA) for places and permissions. That's not even 1/4 of the total attendance. If we had 1/2 of the attendees doing something, even if it was 2 hours of your time to work and then you were off -- think about the difference it could make.

I'm not trying to be pissy here and I'm THRILLED beyond belief that so many people had an awesome time and are already planning on coming back next year. I just want you to know that all those who did do planning this year want it to be better next year and the only way that will happen is if there is an outpouring of help.

To that end, here's some random and incomplate thoughts on how you (if you are so motivated) might help and still get to enjoy your weekend.

1. Plan a drive (even a small one) Think about somewhere you want to go and how many people you are comfortable bringing with you. I know Cade's Cove was capped at 25 folks -- your drive could be too.
2. Plan a small non-driving event: Think out of the box. There's horses there, there's boating; there's fishing --- what do YOU like to do and what would you like to bring your friends with you. Again, capping an event is fairly easy if you need limits to the group size. If you have a good idea, maybe someone else would do it again during the weekend to allow for a double sized group.
3. Get active with your club and do something bigger: like a dinner or a photo or something of the like.
4. Step up to help out any of the above folks.
5. If you live near the Dragon, or go often: drive some of the roads and make some "do-it-yourself" drives.
6. Volunteer to man the reg desk. For 2006, I promise there will be a better check-in process and we will need people. You won't be left alone to field questions, but extra bodies is ALWAYS helpful.

And to those 50-60 folks who did do all or some of the above for 2005 --- I personally thank each and every one of you ---- GROUP HUG.

Hugs,
PB

 

phil-to-phil:

I think we had roughly 15 minute intervals on this trip. The problem was that some of the stops were way more than 15 minutes long. The first one had way more bladders than port-a-potties. The result was that Group 3 waited on the highway for 15 minutes before Group 2 cleared the rest stop. We weren't being polite, there was just no way for us to get into there at the same time.

A similar, but worse, problem arose at the waterfall. We completely blocked one lane of a narrow road, while waiting for the other group to come out of a filled space. Some aging civilians in a Volvo wagon decided to drive around our 40 cars, and naturally a car or two then came out from the opposite direction. We then had to watch the old guy slowly back up to let the other cars out. Naturally, once they got out, he had to drive around again (old dog? new trick? fugeddaboudit!), and we went through the whole routine again.

One hour departure intervals do not require sitting around for two hours. They require scheduling a departure time in advance and showing up when scheduled.

 

Like I said before, I want to be wrong about this. But the bigger we get, the more things can go wrong. The more things go wrong, the angrier people get. The angrier people get, the more they complain. The more they complain, the more likely hard working volunteers are to decide they do not need that kind of abuse. The more volunteers who make that decision, the more of them walk away from the job. The more who decide they don't want the abuse any more, the more things can go wrong... and so on.

I want to be wrong about this. Given that Mini owners are extraordinarily good-natured people, I very well could be. But it could happen and it is worth planning against.

 

The fee structure was $35 for the deluxe registration (which included an AWESOME MOTD tote bag, an official MOTD tee shirt, the magnet, and other great stuff, as well as a wonderful Calendar of Events document). The $5 registration was the basic fee, which gave the buyer their official number for the dash board, allowing them to be insured for any sanctioned MOTD events they participated in.

The dinner fees were based on cost of meals plus administration fees and charitable donations figured in. The lodging fees were incredibly fair. My cabin, a two-bedroom/two full bathroom with fireplace and separate dining room, was $117/night, split with sndwave. It was really a good deal, and could have slept 6 people, with the pull-out sofa bed!

I will be back next year and MKO (koolmini and Yuccapatrol are members) will sponsor the Midnight Run on the Dragon, which will continue as a more seat-of-the-pants type of event. If a SLEW of folks show up, there will be no way all can leave at the same time! We will send off groups every few minutes, and wait for everyone by Tabcat Bridge, where we will open the bonnets and view the stars. Hopefully, the Miatas, (and everyone else), will behave themselves on The Dragon next time, and leave us an open road! :smile:


Clover

 

I know you put in dozens or even hundreds of hours on this event, and I want to thank you as well. I think all of your suggestions are excellent, especially #2. It occurs to me that I spend a weekend there and know almost nothing about what goes on around there. There must be a zillion non-Mini things to do that would attract 15-25 people each.

Now, here is my best suggestion yet. You suggest that if everyone put in 2 hours each, the whole event would be a lot better off, and you are obviously right. That is the best way to insure the core group of 50-60 organizers do not get completely burned out.

My suggestion is that we need someone to co-ordinate those who want to donate a few hours of their time (since they will only work a few hours, should we call them "Mini Volunteers?"). That person's job would be to contact all the various organizing groups and ask them what they need help with. Those groups should be able to find lots of tasks that they can plug folks into for two hour stints.

Once the organizer has the list of volunteer slots. s/he can post them on NAM in the same way the event signups were handled. As we shop through the event menu to sign up for things, we can also volunteer controlled amounts of time to help with specific tasks.

This idea appeals to me a lot. I do not know how much free time I will have next year to be a major volunteer, but I do know I would like to help at least in some small way. I think this idea has a lot of promise.

 

Sounds like something YOU should do, whovous! Step up to the plate and get involved! Don't be shy! It is a fantastic way to meet all your online pals and give back to the MINI community!


Clover

 

When we had the MOTD 2006 planning meeting, there was concern about not having enough do it yourself drives/events.

AtlantaMINIS are going to help with this. We make any excuse to go to the Dragon!

These drives/activities will be categorized by intensity (thrill ride, lazy day, etc.)

Mark had talked about having an encyclopedia of sorts that everyone can contribute to!

I know I for one worked for months on our Farewell Dinner, as did lots of our AtlantaMINIS members. We've had more positive response than negative and we realize that no matter if someone was there giving away MINIS, someone will complain!

I'll help in any way I can as I'm sure a lot of our other members will!

I still think there needs to be a few large gatherings 'cause how else are you going to meet all the fine folks you chat with on the message boards?

All I know is there will be more porch time for me next year! Dang, just now felt like doing ANYTHING productive!

 

Folks,

I've owned a Miata for 8 years and a MINI for 9 months. I've been to every "Miatas At The Gap" since the second one. I didn't go to "MINIs On The Dragon" this year because of scheduling conflicts.

A lot has been said regarding the differences in the way each of our groups handle our gatherings at Deals Gap.

Early on, maybe year 2 or 3, some folks in the Miata community tried to "organize" the Miata gathering. That is to say that they spent months of planning, solicited vendor attendance, vendor contributions for door prizes, set up registrations, set up specific times for certain runs or other gatherings, handle scheduling issues, and the like. They found that a lot of people put out a lot of effort to accomplish this. Most of us appreciated their efforts but felt that it simply wasn’t needed. We don’t need all of the "organization" to have a good time. We don’t need to have our weekend planned for us. We don’t need to be in certain places, at certain times. We don’t need freebies and swag.

The more organization you have, the more people you have that are "working" when they could be driving or socializing. They will be the group that is "in charge". And, there will always be those who don’t like the way things are organized, and will complain about it after the fact. With no organization, there’s no one to blame but yourself for not having a good time.

Logistically, there’s an upper limit to the number of events that any one group can organize. In the free form style of gathering there a lot of people who may be going to do a lot of different drives and will put out the word that anyone is free to join them if they like. This results in larger number of smaller, more manageable, groups that don’t have the kinds of logistical problems that have been described in this thread.

I take acceptation to the statements about Miata owners being anti-social. We aren’t. We do a considerable amount of socializing. We just don’t do it while we drive. We drive, socialize, drive, socialize, etc. When we aren’t driving, we’re hanging out at Fontana, Tapoco, or the Phillips. We make it a point to look up the people we know from the forums, just to chat for a bit. We don’t need (or want) a party of four in the car to run the Gap. My local Miata club does schedule one lunch for our members just so we’ll be sure to all be together in one place during the weekend, in order to socialize. We see enough of each other throughout the rest of the year.

There was a MINI ad, obviously promoting the ownership of the cabrio, comparing the types of people who own one and those who don’t. In essence, it described the convertible owners as "open people" and everyone else as "closed people". With regard to how differently our events are organized, it is my observation that most Miata folks are "open people" and most MINI folks are "closed people". You seem to require more structure and order, while Miata folks tend to go wherever the day takes them.

Miata owners do things differently than MINI owners. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It works for us. If the way MOTD is structured works for you, great, keep doing it. If it isn’t working than change it. That’s what we did and we like it.

I’ve enjoyed being a member of this forum. I’ve gained a lot knowledge from being here. I enjoy seeing what other members have done to their MINIs and I’ve met a lot of nice folks. If anyone takes offense (and some surely will), I apologize, as that wasn’t my intention. There are a lot of MINI folks that own Miatas and a lot of Miata folks that own MINIs. Obviously we’ll all lean one way or the other, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get along.

Motor On & Zoom Zoom,

Dana Steinke

 

I think one of the hardest things is to coordinate timing of the activities. Some have very specific needs. The Cades Cove drive needed to go on Friday due to a festival, the panoramic picture had lighting issues in the AM, etc. No one can do everything and it is doubtful that anyone would want to but there are a few major things that should be available to most. Makes my head hurt.


I have been considering offering an autocross at an 1/8 mile round track that I have done before, if there is interest. Little bit higher speed than most autocrosses with some 3rd gear action. There is also a dragstrip there too. Something like that might be a good place for those vendors with performance products to be for a specific time frame. But then I think about how it might fit in to the weekend and what it might conflict with. Headache again! :smile:

 

The thing is though, as this event continues to grow then conflicts between activities aren't necessarily a bad thing...

As we're seeing with the drives now, not every drive can accomodate everyone, so additional activities are needed to kick off throughout the day so that nobody is stuck sitting in their cabin staring at the walls unless they want to.

That could mean 4 drives departing within 15 minutes of each other, each heading in a different direction. Or two drives and some horseback riding etc...

 

Dana,

Welcome to NAM and thanks so much for your comments...all of them. Remember that the Miata has been around much longer than the new MINI has. We've just finished our 3rd MOTD meet, so we're still figuring things out.

I am one of the MINI folk who love to go to the Dragon in July during the Miatas On The Dragon! The Miata enthusiasts have been so nice to we party-crashers! I think the two marques are very compatible and complementary.

Maybe if we can compile a list of do-it-yourself drives here on NAM in the form of the Dragon Encyclopedia, (as was mentioned above in another post), before going to the Dragon, MINIacs could print out the maps to bring with them and then self-organize amongst themselves.:smile:

I agree that having several evening dinner events is a great way to see old friends and connect with new ones. I will always want to go to a Welcome Dinner event. I like being able to pick and choose or do nothing but drive the Dragon or hang out in my cabin. It's all good!


Clover

 

Things are just too much in flux right now for me to make that kind of commitment this far in advance. At the moment I have lots of time and am trying to make as many constructive suggestions as I can. That's subject to change without notice. I will try to find ways to do what I can to help. This is way too cool an event to do anything else.

 

Given the accident we encountered, if people with medical skills (doctors, PA, RNs, EMTs, etc) can let it be known they're coming, we can know/list their names & screen names. Given how far 911 calls have to go just to be made & responded to, it'd be nice to know if we have people available in our own group to take up slack in between. This could be very useful if an accident (God forbid) is very serious and time is critical. It's best to be prepared!

I think more do-it-yourself drives are great. I think I'll try & get out for the Fall of the Dragon and scout some things out!

I want to help next year. I had planned to this year, but I botched it (Sorry, Mike!). I'd like to help plan an RC race complete with a slalom course or similar. I think this would be fun for after dinner one night & would be great for the kids that come too.

Here's a suggestion... Not sure if it's good or not... What about a breakfast/brunch on the final day? I don't think I ate breakfast any day I was there... it'd be a nice way to say goodbye. I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to so many people as everyone scattered.

 

Whoovous, in my opinion,You are doing more complaining than being constructive, and I for one am getting angry that you keep repeating the shortcomings of the Skyway drive that have already been admitted, discussed, and realized, Let it go!

And I suggest that per your last comment either step up to the plate and take something on, or step back and roll with what is prepared for you. If you want to be a part of it do so, quit chipping away at what most felt is a good thing. OK :smile: