What's the best oil / oil change interval?
#26
12-22-2018, 09:34 AM
5th Gear
#27
12-22-2018, 09:04 PM
4th Gear
I have five cars and one truck. A 64, 77, 04, 05, 08 and 09. I use 10W30, 10W50 and 0W40. I mix the viscosites based on time of year temps. I use a high zinc content oil that is not the recommended oil of ANY manufacturer. Here is my opinion on manufacturer's recommend oil, It's WRONG, period. 1000 miles or 10,000 mile oil change intervals and the timing chains or cams still get worn out. It's not the interval it's the oil. Manufactures need to warranty emissions equipment for the life of the car. Zinc and phosphorus hurt those things. They also want an oil with low tension to help fuel mileage. My vehicles are all out of warranty so their useful life has ended according to the manufacturer's. No speed shop with dyno a flat tapped cam with low zinc oil. It will end bad. Timing chains are wearing out for similar reasons. This is only my "insanity" when it come to my opinion on oil. Ive left out the car manufactureres names and the same with the oil, im not preaching one is better than the other. I do change my oil every 5 to 7000 kilometers, closer to 5, depending on when I get to it. That's 3500 to 5000 mile oil change intervals. Ive got 325,000 klms on my truck and its still running great and doesnt burn any more oil then when it was new. Yes this costs lots but these trucks are known for wiping out cams. Plus I've got lots of money to waste on my automotive hobby. Well not lots, I had lots before this hobby LOL. Again I don't think it's the interval that's the problem, it's the oil.
#28
12-22-2018, 09:24 PM
4th Gear
One more thing to add. ECS had stated in another post somewhere that cheap oil filters loose fibers in the engine and plug off the vanos solenoid. I thought that was a bit of a stretch but possible. When I took out the solenoid from my 08 clubby I'm restoring there was the screen half plugged with what appeared to be filter fibers. Unfortunately i bought four cheap ones online. I will be blowing them out with compressed air before installing them and then only buying good ones from now on. I'll be buying a few different ones to compare quality.
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ECSTuning (12-24-2018)
#29
12-23-2018, 07:04 AM
True that!
It's worth joining in my opinion.
Also,
for the R53 guys with JCW airbox --- the EAAU3570 air filter is excellent and you can get it direct from them for $45 when a preferred customer.
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dale_z28 (04-17-2019)
#30
12-23-2018, 10:29 AM
This is an interesting thread. Clearly MINI people have put a lot of thought and effort into this subject. Thanks, everyone for posting their thoughts.
A couple points...
As was stated in the the first post, the MINI specified oil needing to be “LL-04 or -01” is for long life only. MINI had very high milage oil change intervals early on. I remember seeing service intervals of 20 to 30k miles on our ‘04 when we first got it. If you are changing your oil at ~5000 mile intervals these “LL-“ oils are not necessary. So, as was also said, the oil just needs to be of a high quality synthetic.
Another point is the weight of the oil. 5-30, 0-30, 10-30 weight oils are all the same at running temperatures. That is, they are all 30 weight oils. So, the 5-, 0-, and 10- only influences the cold starting and cold running of the engine. A 10 weight oil would work well in warm climate and the 0 and 5 in Minnesota or the like. Having an oil that flows well when cold will tend to help engine life by helping with cold lubrication of the engine. There also may be a slight benefit with gas milage with a light cold weight oil.
I will chime in as a person who runs their MINI on the track. Other than having installed a Helix intercooler, my engine and tune are pure stock, right down to using the MINI air filter. With the N18 engine I watch water and oil temperatures on a ScanGage when out on the track. Now, the “oil temperature” is not a real temperature measurement. It is a BMW algorithm that estimates the oil temperature from a number of different parameters. Even though it is not a real measurement, it does give an indication of what is going on with the oil. That said, I can say that the N18 engine with the turbo really cooks the oil. With light, street driving the oil temp is about 220-225 degF. Highway driving: 230-235 degF. On the track: 250-265 degF. From experience, I can say that, if the auxiliary water pump that feeds water to the turbo to cool the bearings dies, all of the highway and track temperatures will go up by 10 to 20 degF. On the track I saw oil temps in the 275-285 degF range.
I had chance to talk to one of the principle people with RedLine oil. He also races sports cars. The conversation that I had with him had to do with the high oil temperature I had when my auxiliary water pump went out, but before I knew that the pump had failed. One prominent statement he made was that, in an engine used in racing, an increase in the weight of the oil used (e.g.: going from a 30 weight to a 40 weight) will decrease the oil temperature by 10 to 20 degF. He did not give me a technical reason why this is, however. I will say that I did experience a lower temperature with the heavier weight oil. But, I also believe that the turbo, without a working auxiliary water pump, will still cook the oil, which offset some of this cooling benefit, as I didn’t get the temperature reduction he had said..
I change the oil and filter before every track event, whether it is a 1, 2 or 3 day event, and leave it in until the next event. An event day is typically 4 - 25 to 30 minute sessions. Oils that I have used include Castrol and MINI brand 5-30, Mobil 1 0-40, Redline 5-40 and Motul 5-40. I should also note that my engine uses no oil during these events.
Here are my observations based on how the engine sounds and the oil looks:
Castrol and MINI 5-30: New oil, the engine has the typical MINI N-18 clatter when first changed. After a one day event the clatter has increased slightly and the oil is black on the dip stick.
Mobil 1 0-40: New oil the engine has less clatter than with the Castrol/MINI oils. After a one day event the clatter has increased to the same level as with the Castrol/MINI oils and the oil is black on the dip stick.
Redline 5-40 and Motul 5-40: Both of these oil seem to run about the same. New oil, even less clatter than with the Mobil 1. Even after a 3 day event, the engine sounds better than the other oils after a 1 day event. The oil color is more of a dark brown than black on the dipstick.
Blackstone analyses have not come back with any of the oils not being acceptable. They have pointed out slightly high iron content. That said, based on engine sounds and the black oil on the dipstick, something in the oil changes during each of my track events. Don’t know what. I also don’t have a good handle of the oil temperature change during my track events and this is somewhat dependent on the change in ambient temperature. I generally just watch that it stays within a range that I have come to expect. As for taking better data, I just haven’t taken the time when I am out having fun...
My conclusions, and there is little “science” in these conclusions, I like the sounds of the engine better with the RedLine and Motul oils. The turbo really cooks the oil. The 40 weight oil is better than the 30 weight. The RedLine and Motul oils seem to be about the same; the Redline might be just slightly better. The Motul is less expensive, so that is what I use. I have heard good things about Liqui-Moly and will try that when I get a chance.
All in the name of having fun...
A couple points...
As was stated in the the first post, the MINI specified oil needing to be “LL-04 or -01” is for long life only. MINI had very high milage oil change intervals early on. I remember seeing service intervals of 20 to 30k miles on our ‘04 when we first got it. If you are changing your oil at ~5000 mile intervals these “LL-“ oils are not necessary. So, as was also said, the oil just needs to be of a high quality synthetic.
Another point is the weight of the oil. 5-30, 0-30, 10-30 weight oils are all the same at running temperatures. That is, they are all 30 weight oils. So, the 5-, 0-, and 10- only influences the cold starting and cold running of the engine. A 10 weight oil would work well in warm climate and the 0 and 5 in Minnesota or the like. Having an oil that flows well when cold will tend to help engine life by helping with cold lubrication of the engine. There also may be a slight benefit with gas milage with a light cold weight oil.
I will chime in as a person who runs their MINI on the track. Other than having installed a Helix intercooler, my engine and tune are pure stock, right down to using the MINI air filter. With the N18 engine I watch water and oil temperatures on a ScanGage when out on the track. Now, the “oil temperature” is not a real temperature measurement. It is a BMW algorithm that estimates the oil temperature from a number of different parameters. Even though it is not a real measurement, it does give an indication of what is going on with the oil. That said, I can say that the N18 engine with the turbo really cooks the oil. With light, street driving the oil temp is about 220-225 degF. Highway driving: 230-235 degF. On the track: 250-265 degF. From experience, I can say that, if the auxiliary water pump that feeds water to the turbo to cool the bearings dies, all of the highway and track temperatures will go up by 10 to 20 degF. On the track I saw oil temps in the 275-285 degF range.
I had chance to talk to one of the principle people with RedLine oil. He also races sports cars. The conversation that I had with him had to do with the high oil temperature I had when my auxiliary water pump went out, but before I knew that the pump had failed. One prominent statement he made was that, in an engine used in racing, an increase in the weight of the oil used (e.g.: going from a 30 weight to a 40 weight) will decrease the oil temperature by 10 to 20 degF. He did not give me a technical reason why this is, however. I will say that I did experience a lower temperature with the heavier weight oil. But, I also believe that the turbo, without a working auxiliary water pump, will still cook the oil, which offset some of this cooling benefit, as I didn’t get the temperature reduction he had said..
I change the oil and filter before every track event, whether it is a 1, 2 or 3 day event, and leave it in until the next event. An event day is typically 4 - 25 to 30 minute sessions. Oils that I have used include Castrol and MINI brand 5-30, Mobil 1 0-40, Redline 5-40 and Motul 5-40. I should also note that my engine uses no oil during these events.
Here are my observations based on how the engine sounds and the oil looks:
Castrol and MINI 5-30: New oil, the engine has the typical MINI N-18 clatter when first changed. After a one day event the clatter has increased slightly and the oil is black on the dip stick.
Mobil 1 0-40: New oil the engine has less clatter than with the Castrol/MINI oils. After a one day event the clatter has increased to the same level as with the Castrol/MINI oils and the oil is black on the dip stick.
Redline 5-40 and Motul 5-40: Both of these oil seem to run about the same. New oil, even less clatter than with the Mobil 1. Even after a 3 day event, the engine sounds better than the other oils after a 1 day event. The oil color is more of a dark brown than black on the dipstick.
Blackstone analyses have not come back with any of the oils not being acceptable. They have pointed out slightly high iron content. That said, based on engine sounds and the black oil on the dipstick, something in the oil changes during each of my track events. Don’t know what. I also don’t have a good handle of the oil temperature change during my track events and this is somewhat dependent on the change in ambient temperature. I generally just watch that it stays within a range that I have come to expect. As for taking better data, I just haven’t taken the time when I am out having fun...
My conclusions, and there is little “science” in these conclusions, I like the sounds of the engine better with the RedLine and Motul oils. The turbo really cooks the oil. The 40 weight oil is better than the 30 weight. The RedLine and Motul oils seem to be about the same; the Redline might be just slightly better. The Motul is less expensive, so that is what I use. I have heard good things about Liqui-Moly and will try that when I get a chance.
All in the name of having fun...
Last edited by Eddie07S; 12-23-2018 at 10:40 AM. Reason: typo and edits
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#31
12-23-2018, 11:15 AM
4th Gear
Oil turns black from the carbon deposited into it from engine blow-by. There is not a way for oil to prevent piston blow-by other then metal temp control. Oil filters only work down to 5 or 6 microns, carbon is 1 plus microns so it passes through a filter. One type of oil can not get less black than another under the same conditions. Light to dark coloured oil is just the amount of carbon black the oil contains. The carbon comes from our fuel, hydrogen and carbon, the hydrogen is released as water and the carbon by carbon di or mon oxide. Some h2o goes into the crankcase with the carbon. The h2o shows up in the catch cans and the carbon black that isn't co2 stays in the oil. The rest goes out the tail pipe. Long term oil change intervals allow the oil to load up with carbon and turn acidic. The water vapour is acidic. The oil has modifiers to counter act the acidification that come from blow-by but they can only counter so much of it. If an engine has blow by (mini n14) shorter oil change intervals would be recommended.
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930 Engineering (03-12-2021)
#32
03-02-2020, 05:15 PM
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I've got a 09 JCW with 190,000 on the clock and have done so much to the car. Bought it with a bad head gasket and did that and valve stem seals. Noticed cylinder one had two score marks. Didn't look terrible. Rebuilt the turbo and replaced injectors for a leaking one. Running a catch can. I change the oil every 3k miles since capacity is so low. I've been running liquimoly 5w40 and it smokes a lot after long idle(doesn't have meowless downpipe) and eats a good bit. Switched to their 10w60 and it's been so much happier. rarely smokes and consumption is less. Highly recommend it. Gonna try a high zinc 20w50 next change. Will post results.
#33
03-04-2020, 03:51 PM
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#35
05-31-2020, 06:55 PM
Edit - just saw yours is a Gen II - I believe the R56 has the same in its manual. None the less, that is what you should be doing. Also, the dealer said that was what I needed to do on my new F56 and it was covered on my annual maintenance.
Last edited by Eddie07S; 05-31-2020 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Add info.
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roadrunner255 (06-01-2020)
#36
10-01-2020, 12:16 PM
5w-20
First post here,
I accidentally ordered 5 w 20 full synthetic from Amazon basics for my 2012 countryman. It's base model so not to bad on oil consumption. Next bottle will definitely be 5 w 30, but should I rush to switch it or am I good for next 3-5k? My thought is lack of turbo, winter coming our way (I live in Northeast), and good performance for past 600 miles means I'm ok.
Side-note I'm getting slightly better gas mileage now too!
I'm sure I will get dinged for using Amazon basics, but it seems to be working fine. Anyone with experience using 5 w 20 or Amazon basics or both?
I accidentally ordered 5 w 20 full synthetic from Amazon basics for my 2012 countryman. It's base model so not to bad on oil consumption. Next bottle will definitely be 5 w 30, but should I rush to switch it or am I good for next 3-5k? My thought is lack of turbo, winter coming our way (I live in Northeast), and good performance for past 600 miles means I'm ok.
Side-note I'm getting slightly better gas mileage now too!
I'm sure I will get dinged for using Amazon basics, but it seems to be working fine. Anyone with experience using 5 w 20 or Amazon basics or both?
#37
10-01-2020, 02:30 PM
First post here,
I accidentally ordered 5 w 20 full synthetic from Amazon basics for my 2012 countryman. It's base model so not to bad on oil consumption. Next bottle will definitely be 5 w 30, but should I rush to switch it or am I good for next 3-5k? My thought is lack of turbo, winter coming our way (I live in Northeast), and good performance for past 600 miles means I'm ok.
Side-note I'm getting slightly better gas mileage now too!
I'm sure I will get dinged for using Amazon basics, but it seems to be working fine. Anyone with experience using 5 w 20 or Amazon basics or both?
I accidentally ordered 5 w 20 full synthetic from Amazon basics for my 2012 countryman. It's base model so not to bad on oil consumption. Next bottle will definitely be 5 w 30, but should I rush to switch it or am I good for next 3-5k? My thought is lack of turbo, winter coming our way (I live in Northeast), and good performance for past 600 miles means I'm ok.
Side-note I'm getting slightly better gas mileage now too!
I'm sure I will get dinged for using Amazon basics, but it seems to be working fine. Anyone with experience using 5 w 20 or Amazon basics or both?
Without the turbo, you should be fine, especially if you are not running it hard and to high revs. The next generation of MINIs use 0W20. But that is for a different engine, so it probably doesn’t count. Not surprised about the slightly better gas mileage with the lighter weight oil. Do you have an owner’s manual for the car? I don’t remember if 20w is allowed for that engine. Won’t hurt to check.
As for Amazon basics, no experience. But if it is full synthetic and meets the MINI specs (except, maybe, for the LL - long life given that you say you are only running it for 3 to 5k) it should be good. MINI recommended Castrol back then. IMHO there are better oils out there than that, but that is good for regular driving. So, I would think the Amazon oil would be fine too.
The Countryman should serve you well here in the NE... Motor on...
#38
10-01-2020, 03:49 PM
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Eurothrasher (03-12-2021)
#39
10-02-2020, 11:19 AM
I accidentally ordered 5 w 20 full synthetic from Amazon basics for my 2012 countryman. It's base model so not to bad on oil consumption. Next bottle will definitely be 5 w 30, but should I rush to switch it or am I good for next 3-5k? My thought is lack of turbo, winter coming our way (I live in Northeast), and good performance for past 600 miles means I'm ok.
Additionally and possibly even more important is whether its characteristics (high SAPS, low SAPS, certain additives, etc.) match the requirements of the particular engine. BMW prescribes oils that are approved for (or at least made to "meet") BMW Longlife-98, BMW Longlife-01 or BMW Longlife-04 (the latter only when used with EU-conformal fuels). Note: "match" has nothing to do with the actual "quality" or "performance" of an oil or whether it is synthetic, fully synthetic or hydro-cracked.
And as a side note: I never understood what "european formula" is meant to imply besides luring owners of european cars. There are so many different euopean engines with totally different needs and requirements regarding engine oil. An oil that is suitable for a particular european engine may well be damaging when used in another european engine. The only thing that counts is the engine manufacturer's specifications/requirements for each individual engine. A quick look in the owner's manual resolves any uncertainties.
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930 Engineering (03-12-2021)
#40
10-02-2020, 01:09 PM
If someone is changing there oil at 5,000 mile intervals, is there a particular need to get and use the made for BMW spec long life oil, if all of the other requirements are met? I looked up the specs for the Longlife-nn oil and didn’t see anything that would indicate that it would be harmful to not use it if a much shorter operation interval was used. But I also don’t know if I missed anything.
#42
10-02-2020, 01:24 PM
All BMW approved oils for these engines are either x-30 or x-40. And since the engine temperature is kept within certain limits irrespective of outside temperatures I would consider an x-20 oil to be "thinner" than required at the engine's operating temperatures and hence a risk for long term wear and possibly even damage.
Additionally and possibly even more important is whether its characteristics (high SAPS, low SAPS, certain additives, etc.) match the requirements of the particular engine. BMW prescribes oils that are approved for (or at least made to "meet") BMW Longlife-98, BMW Longlife-01 or BMW Longlife-04 (the latter only when used with EU-conformal fuels). Note: "match" has nothing to do with the actual "quality" or "performance" of an oil or whether it is synthetic, fully synthetic or hydro-cracked.
And as a side note: I never understood what "european formula" is meant to imply besides luring owners of european cars. There are so many different euopean engines with totally different needs and requirements regarding engine oil. An oil that is suitable for a particular european engine may well be damaging when used in another european engine. The only thing that counts is the engine manufacturer's specifications/requirements for each individual engine. A quick look in the owner's manual resolves any uncertainties.
Additionally and possibly even more important is whether its characteristics (high SAPS, low SAPS, certain additives, etc.) match the requirements of the particular engine. BMW prescribes oils that are approved for (or at least made to "meet") BMW Longlife-98, BMW Longlife-01 or BMW Longlife-04 (the latter only when used with EU-conformal fuels). Note: "match" has nothing to do with the actual "quality" or "performance" of an oil or whether it is synthetic, fully synthetic or hydro-cracked.
And as a side note: I never understood what "european formula" is meant to imply besides luring owners of european cars. There are so many different euopean engines with totally different needs and requirements regarding engine oil. An oil that is suitable for a particular european engine may well be damaging when used in another european engine. The only thing that counts is the engine manufacturer's specifications/requirements for each individual engine. A quick look in the owner's manual resolves any uncertainties.
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Eurothrasher (03-12-2021)
#43
10-02-2020, 06:04 PM
Viscosity thresholds @ 212 F (cST)
SAE 20: min 5.6, max 9.3
SAE 30: min 9.3, max 12.5
SAE 40: min 12.5, max 16.3
I would suspect that the line at 30 was drawn for a reason.
Just to be precise:
Recommended is LL-98 and LL-01 (within the EU: LL-04 as well), irrespective of the oil change intervals.
If not available, "small quantities" of synthetic oil with API SH or higher in either 5w-30 or 5w-40.
(According to the manual)
In case of interest, there is also:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...engine/1PSryV8
Clicking on a specification (column headers) opens a page with all engine oils currently in production which are officially approved by BMW to fulfill that specification.
SAE 20: min 5.6, max 9.3
SAE 30: min 9.3, max 12.5
SAE 40: min 12.5, max 16.3
Recommended is LL-98 and LL-01 (within the EU: LL-04 as well), irrespective of the oil change intervals.
If not available, "small quantities" of synthetic oil with API SH or higher in either 5w-30 or 5w-40.
(According to the manual)
In case of interest, there is also:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...engine/1PSryV8
Clicking on a specification (column headers) opens a page with all engine oils currently in production which are officially approved by BMW to fulfill that specification.
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930 Engineering (03-12-2021)
#45
10-04-2020, 07:27 AM
2nd Gear
#48
03-11-2021, 11:48 PM
2nd Gear
#49
03-12-2021, 05:16 AM
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930 Engineering (03-13-2021)
