Just curious where you saw that insurance for AWD is often cheaper. Actually my cousin (who is visiting us, and is an underwriter for one of the largest automotive insurance companies in the country, not sure if I should mention which one) is the one who is interested. I told her about your post. She said she has never heard of this, but is certainly interested in what her competitors may be doing, thanks.

 

It holds a gear longer at higher revs which increases wear and it shifts quicker which puts mechanical stress on the transmission parts. Otherwise why not just make it the default mode of the car and then put an ECO button on it like a Honda?

 

Great comments everyone, many thanks!

It seems like everyone who has their CM is happy with their decision, save for the 5 snow days in Mass fella.

This post began with my question of Why an ALL4? That was based solely on my experience with the ALL4 MT I had as a loaner. Now...

I have driven the ALL4 AT today and it is WONDERFUL! When pushed, and I mean 4-wheel sliding with Sport Mode engaged and Stability off pushed, she handles wonderfully. The rear does what you say she should do and come right around under throttle; never happen in a FWD S! Sure, power is still lower than the FWD counterpart, but the spirited control more than makes up for it in fun points.

I have driven (HARD) every turbo countryman out thus far (CMSAT, CMSMT, ALL4AT, ALL4MT) and I must say the ALL4 AT is by far my favorite. I will work the numbers with the dealership and make it happen!

Wish me luck!

Aaron

 

Good luck!

And that reminds me...my wife test drove the auto All4 and absolutely hated it. For her, there is nothing like a manual, and the pull and power of the manual tranny left the auto in the dust. So to speak.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

 

Driving at high RPM and shifting quickly puts very little additional wear on a transmission. What wears an automatic are things like full throttle downshifts, and user error, like shifting into drive while still rolling backward.

The decision to include a "sport" button is a marketing choice, not an engineering choice. It has no implications for wear to the transmission.

 

I'd be interested to know a source for the information that sport mode causes the transmission to shift "quicker". Also, how that is achieved.

 

[QUOTE=Royson G;3577263]Driving at high RPM and shifting quickly puts very little additional wear on a transmission. What wears an automatic are things like full throttle downshifts, and user error, like shifting into drive while still rolling backward. QUOTE] And shifting into park at expressway speeds, and towing your 12,000 lb trailer with your CM. Sorry, after working in a transmission shop when I was younger, I felt compelled to add some more examples that I personally observed .

 

One good reason: the car most likely gets better fuel economy ratings on the EPA tests when it is not in Sport Mode. EPA tests are required to be done in the default (start-up) mode only.

 

That's what I wanted in my car - an AWD 5-door hatch with reasonable go. I haven't enjoyed FWD torque steer since Honda Accord long ago. While I picked up added weight and reduced go-kart handling, the balanced behavior of my CM4 was what I was seeking. And when I turn of DSC and TC, it's really fun to drift around in the loose stuff!

 

I guess I stand corrected. Then there should be a way to make the Sport mode the default if you desire so that you don't have to keep pressing it every time you start the car.

 

in 1969, when i started driving, my first car was rwd, and it was good, well except in the winter (or any other slick conditions)

in 1976, i bought my first new car, a vw rabbit, my first fwd, and it was better, very much better in the winter (or any slick conditions)

in 1995, i bought a part-time 4wd pickup, and it was back to 1969, except when i pushed the magic 4wd button and it was very much better than 1976 in any slick condition, wet, dirt or winter

it was so much better that i bought a new 1997 gmc sonoma 3 door 4x4 v6 5speed and drove it as my daily driver from 12/31/1996 until this year (3/31/2012)

so 285,000 miles later, in spring of 2011, i decided to get a new car and retire the sonoma from daily duty to utility duty, yes, i kept the sonoma

i knew the new vehicle would have 4 driven wheels, either part or full time and started the search with no other criteria than 4wd/awd

i drove p/u trucks, suvs, audi's, porsche's, i think i drove every available 4wd/awd vehicle offered for sale in the usa, and nothing got me excited ...

until ...

i was sitting in the dentist waiting room and picked up an old issue of car & driver that had a story on the cms all4 prototype, complete with photos of a camo tape covered all4

next day i was at knauz auto in lake bluff, il to check out the all4

all they had to test drive was an automatic all4 so i drove that

while i was out "motoring" for the first time, it started to rain and i got to test the awd system in less than ideal conditions and i was hooked! i finally found a vehicle that got me excited

i started to play with the online configurator and kept stopping at the dealer until they finally had a manual shift all4 to test drive and it was raining again

in less than a mile, i knew i was going to buy the cms all4 manual, it was just details from that point on

in doing more research on the cms all4, reading everything i could find, i heard that beginning 03/2012, there would be a production upgrade so, working with the dealer on a build date slot, i ordered my cms all4 on 2/17/2012 for a 03/2012 build date, took delievery 03/31/2012 and as of today, still get the giggles every time i drive my cms all4

so far, zero problems, 1 recall, for the thermostat, discovered it applied to my car last saturday when i stopped at the dealer for "free car wash saturday" and they "read" my key when i checked in, got the recall action performed last wed, took 45 minutes, including another car wash

only mods so far are a milltek downpipe back exhaust and some cosmetic upgrades, checkered mirror covers (all 3 mirrors)

next mods will be an intercooler reasonator delete hose, an upgraded intercooler, and the defenders of speed cai when it becomes available and possibly an upgraded recirculation valve (still researching) followed by an ecu upgrade, probably by renntech because i like the idea of the sport button activating the tune

all the options i ordered are in my signature below, i kept it simple

scott

 

You can do a mod to achieve that - search for "auto sport on" mod. Though I'm not sure whether anyone has done it with a Countryman (or even a 2011+ model of any kind) so I'm not sure whether the solutions still work. Seems like they should.

 

the auto sport on mod does not work on the countryman

there is no coding solution either

same for DSC off (TRACTION MODE ON) or DSC/TRACTION both off

so in my cms all4, starting is the 3 button press procedure, press start, press DSC, press sport

scott

 

Great story Scott.

aaron

 

What's the difference between the two? Do you hold it down to turn both off?

 

One press: DSC changes to DTC (less stability control, still traction control)
Another press (hold 3 sec): All stability and traction control off except electronic differential lock.

 

press and release the DSC button to turn off DSC and go to DTC mode

when in DTC mode, press and hold the DSC button to turn off both DSC and DTC

here is what the OM says about DSC/DTC:

BEGIN OM QUOTE
Dynamic Stability Control DSC

The concept
DSC prevents the driving wheels from losing traction when you pull away from rest or accelerate. DSC also detects unstable driving conditions such as when the vehicle's rear end fishtails or the vehicle is sliding on its front wheels. In these cases, DSC helps the vehicle maintain a safe course within physical limits by reducing engine output and through braking actions at the individual wheels.

Deactivating DSC
Press the button repeatedly until the DSC indicator lamps come on. DSC is deactivated. Stabilizing and propulsion promoting actions are no
longer executed. When driving with snow chains or to 'rock free' in snow, it can be helpful to switch off DSC for a brief period. To increase vehicle stability, activate DSC again as soon as possible.

Activating DSC
Press the button again: the DSC indicator lamps go out
.
For better control
If the indicator lamp flashes:
The DSC controls the driving and breaking forces.

The indicator lamp in the display elements lights up and DSC OFF is displayed in the tachometer:
DSC is deactivated.

Dynamic Traction Control DTC*

DTC is a type of DSC that is propulsion optimized for special road conditions such as uncleared snowy roads. The system ensures maximum Technology for driving comfort and safety propulsion though with restricted driving stability. You therefore need to drive with suitable caution.

In the following exceptional situations, it can be useful to briefly activate DTC:
> when driving on snow-covered inclines, in slush, or on uncleared snowy roads
> when rocking the vehicle free, driving out of deep snow or on loose surfaces
> when driving with snow chains

Activating DTC
Press the button, the indicator lamp for DTC lights up in the display elements and TRACTION is displayed in the tachometer.

For better control
If the indicator lamp flashes: DTC controls the driving and breaking
forces.

The indicator lamp lights up and TRACTION is displayed in the tachometer:
DTC is activated.

Deactivating DTC
Press the button again: the DTC indicator lamps go out.

Deactivating DSC and DTC
Press the button for at least 3 seconds: the DSC indicator lamps in the display elements come on. The Dynamic Traction Control DTC and Dynamic Stability Control DSC are both deactivated. There will be no more stabilizing interventions.
Interventions (differential lock*) in braking occur to improve propulsion when drive wheels are rotating unevenly, even when the DSC is deactivated.

Activating DSC
Press the button again: the indicator lamps go out.
END OM QUOTE

all of that said, DSC is more agressive than DTC. in DSC mode it is almost impossiible to slide the car and i have felt the power being reduced. in DTC mode, the car will slide a little, but have not had it get crazy loose. with both off, it is like the "old days" and you are on your own, the car will slide, the rear end will come out and you can throttle steer

so if you want to get the tail out and throttle steer, turn both off

scott

 

.

Thx

 

What evidence do you have to support this? I've read a handful of posts on here that it works on the N18 engine, so I don't see why it wouldn't work on the Countryman. This is the only one I could find with the search, but I'm pretty sure I've seen others.

2011 MCS: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...670-post1.html

If you have read otherwise, let me know before I order one.

 

Mojito, we are still interested in knowing where you saw that insurance for AWD is often less. Please let us know thanks.

 

it does not work on the countryman, i cannot say about any other model

the countryman sport button is not a switch per say, but sends a signal to the ecu, in effect it is a packet of data sent on the buss to the ecu requesting to be put in sport mode

this is covered in the ncs-expert programming threads

scott

 

Link?

 

links for ncs-expert programming ... somewhere in there is the discussion of why the fes auto sport module does not work on the r60

probably would be easier to send an email to fes-auto.com

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-yourself.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...r60-guide.html

scott

 

I dont need awd on a daily basis. It now seems to rarely snow in my region, yet I still bought an ALL4.
I'm a performance minded driver & want a manual. I dont care if it's point.x seconds slower than a fancy Auto.
I drive aggressively, I will mod my car. I like good milage, but dont expect hybrid results.
I have mostly owned FWD Vw's & a few Quattros. I have also owned a Rx7(RWD) & a 4x4/rwd Trooper(unstoppable monster in any cond.)
I prefer awd to 4wd.

So why the CMsALL4 then?
... I like A/S tires & AWD. I like AWD handling. I dont mind any tradeoffs. Because I tend to travel to snow country often in winter.
I snowboard & tend to hit the roads during the storms to chase the snowfall at the resorts. I dont like spinning 1wd the entire way. (4+hrs)
My wife also drives this car, she liked the difference of quattro.
If you've ever driven an AWD car vs a FWD car in anything more than an inch of snow you know there is a huge difference. (deep snow, snowy parking lots, take off, pulling into traffic, icy spots, etc)
An AWD/manual car was exactly what I wanted.


I dont see any lag at all in the CM. Want lag?, drive a VW 1.8T. It feels quite powerful for 181hp.
The CM manual gear ratios are near perfect IMO. Its by no means a 'fast' car, but it feels surely quick enough w/o feeling underpowered.

 

Thanks for the links. I think I actually read that post by Theta awhile ago, but got excited recently when I saw it listed for the R60 on one of the vendor sites. Seems bizarre that MINI would change how Sport is activated for no apparent reason. I guess I'll just keep hitting it manually and keep my fingers crossed.


Back on topic, I got the All4 for skiing primarily. I made it through 2 winters in Ohio in my R53 and my wife in her R50, so I definitely know AWD isn't necessary for snow. But there were a few days my first winter in ABQ when I wanted to go ski but had to wait for the roads to be cleared. I considered getting a used Outback but didn't want the hassle of 3 cars. Really I wish MINI would make an AWD Clubman. I'd switch to that in a heartbeat.