R60 Smelly Clutch
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
From: Oh Canada!
I just finished the break-in period (2000 kms) of my 2013 Cooper S A4, during the break-in period, I have never had a smelly clutch incident, take offs from stop is more confidence inspiring and it is "grabbier" compared to my old 2011. Also, people who don't drive my car often (i.e. my wife, valet people, etc.) doesn't stall the car anymore.
Please keep us updated on "experimental" fix. My 2011 All4 has had issues since day 1. My Dealership reprogrammed it last year, but it just didn't do the trick. My two year checkup is next month, so I'm hoping they will have a solution by now.
MsBrit
MsBrit
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
Fenton has just returned from MoSC with a '2013' clutch (part number 21-20-8-606-067) installed (after 28000 miles on a 2011), The old clutch wasn't worn out - the replacement is an experiment to see if the new design solves the long-reported problems.
The description from another NAM thread is: "The new heavier duty clutches should be made available to MINI dealers soon for the A4's built before 11/2012, and have an additional spring plate not in the original. After that build date the new clutch assembly is already in."
The description is pretty good - different shaped friction elements (more pointy), thicker friction material, harder friction material, different support structure.
I'll break it in for a couple of hundred miles then find out if it solves my 2011 problem. Early feel is very promising...
The 2011 clutch misbehaved from the beginning, so this will be interesting
The description from another NAM thread is: "The new heavier duty clutches should be made available to MINI dealers soon for the A4's built before 11/2012, and have an additional spring plate not in the original. After that build date the new clutch assembly is already in."
The description is pretty good - different shaped friction elements (more pointy), thicker friction material, harder friction material, different support structure.
I'll break it in for a couple of hundred miles then find out if it solves my 2011 problem. Early feel is very promising...
The 2011 clutch misbehaved from the beginning, so this will be interesting
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
2011 CM4 with '2013' clutch a big improvement
Fenton has just returned from MoSC with a '2013' clutch (part number 21-20-8-606-067) installed (after 28000 miles on a 2011), The old clutch wasn't worn out - the replacement is an experiment to see if the new design solves the long-reported problems.
The description from another NAM thread is: "The new heavier duty clutches should be made available to MINI dealers soon for the A4's built before 11/2012, and have an additional spring plate not in the original. After that build date the new clutch assembly is already in."
The description is pretty good - different shaped friction elements (more pointy), thicker friction material, harder friction material, different support structure.
I'll break it in for a couple of hundred miles then find out if it solves my 2011 problem. Early feel is very promising...
The 2011 clutch misbehaved from the beginning, so this will be interesting
The description from another NAM thread is: "The new heavier duty clutches should be made available to MINI dealers soon for the A4's built before 11/2012, and have an additional spring plate not in the original. After that build date the new clutch assembly is already in."
The description is pretty good - different shaped friction elements (more pointy), thicker friction material, harder friction material, different support structure.
I'll break it in for a couple of hundred miles then find out if it solves my 2011 problem. Early feel is very promising...
The 2011 clutch misbehaved from the beginning, so this will be interesting
of the 2011 version so far. After driving several hundred miles this weekend I can report that the new clutch starts out smoothly every time (so far) 
, a big improvement over the prior effort.I can reliably start out on the flat at idle. Starting on some of the steeper
hills around here required more RPMs (expected), but there was no hesitation or stalling
. I'd say the '2013' clutch changes the character of my 2011 to what I hoped it would be from the start
, when all the manual ALL4s I tried would occasionally stall on starting out. No problems so far and I'm very encouraged. I only wish MINI/USA would have made these available sooner to earlier improve our motoring experience. 
Appreciation to MINI of Stevens Creek for advocating trying this 2011/2013 combination and arranging the availability of the part with MINI/USA. Others should be encouraged by my experience...
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 45
From: Philly Suburbs
Good news. The '2013' clutch has not exhibited the occasional choke-and-die behavior of the 2011 version so far. After driving several hundred miles this weekend I can report that the new clutch starts out smoothly every time (so far) , a big improvement over the prior effort.
I can reliably start out on the flat at idle. Starting on some of the steeper
hills around here required more RPMs (expected), but there was no hesitation or stalling.
I'd say the '2013' clutch changes the character of my 2011 to what I hoped it would be from the start, when all the manual ALL4s I tried would occasionally stall on starting out. No problems so far and I'm very encouraged. I only wish MINI/USA would have made these available sooner to earlier improve our motoring experience.
Appreciation to MINI of Stevens Creek for advocating trying this 2011/2013 combination and arranging the availability of the part with MINI/USA. Others should be encouraged by my experience...
of the 2011 version so far. After driving several hundred miles this weekend I can report that the new clutch starts out smoothly every time (so far) , a big improvement over the prior effort.I can reliably start out on the flat at idle. Starting on some of the steeper
hills around here required more RPMs (expected), but there was no hesitation or stalling
. I'd say the '2013' clutch changes the character of my 2011 to what I hoped it would be from the start
, when all the manual ALL4s I tried would occasionally stall on starting out. No problems so far and I'm very encouraged. I only wish MINI/USA would have made these available sooner to earlier improve our motoring experience. Appreciation to MINI of Stevens Creek for advocating trying this 2011/2013 combination and arranging the availability of the part with MINI/USA. Others should be encouraged by my experience...
Still working with my dealer to get the new clutch for our car. May have been some progress this week. Only 10 months left on lease so time is dwindling...
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
"Smelly Clutch, Smelly Clutch
Why have you been worrying me..."
- apologies to Phoebe Buffet
Took delivery of our 2011 MINI Cooper S All4 Countryman with manual transmission in early January 2011. Yes, one of the first cars delivered.
My wife and I are the sole drivers of the Countryman and together we put on a whopping 4000 miles in the first 13 months of ownership. Each of us has driven manual transmissions for well over 20 years and have each owned many cars with manual transmissions. Please just stipulate that we know how to properly drive a stick. Please?
Starting one week into ownership, we have found that with moderate to heavy use (rush hour traffic for instance) the clutch will emit a very strong and unpleasant burning smell. The smell is strong you notice it while in the car and if you are standing outside of it. Hence the name of our car ("Smelly Clutch") and the title of this thread.
While driving in stop and go traffic, or slowly following a line of cars up a steep garage ramp, or any other situation where the clutch is going to be stressed, you can count on good ole Smelly Clutch to rear her ugly nose, er head.
A couple of weeks ago we drove into the city to go out to dinner. It's about a 7 mile drive but it was in stop-and-go rush hour traffic. As soon as we pulled into the indoor parking garage, the attendant came over and said "Are your brakes burning up? Smelled it as soon as you pulled in." I explained that it is indeed my car that stinks but it is the clutch rather than the brakes.
We've been reporting these issues to our dealer fairly regularly so that it is well documented. They have been courteous but continue to state that there is nothing wrong with the car. And they won't pull the transmission to visually inspect the clutch, something that I really think ought to be done.
Why am I posting this now?
Well, today I brought our All4 to the dealer for a state inspection and to replace the auxiliary water pump per the recall. The Service Advisor told me they just replaced a clutch on an All4 with 1700 miles on it. The clutch had been completely fried and his car had to be towed in to the dealership. Like me, the driver also claimed to be well experienced in driving a manual transmission for many, many years. MINI is picking up the tab for that repair, I'm told.
I was also told that the vast majority of All4's are sold with automatic transmissions so the sample size for manuals is much smaller. Further, the SA noted that unlike other MINI's, the clutch in the Countryman does not really have a consistent sweet spot where the clutch engages or disengages and that it cannot be adjusted.
I think my clutch is going to fail at some point. Probably when my wife is driving it. Probably on a highway. In rush hour. And I'll be out of town on business. Get the picture?
So, has anyone on this forum with a manual All4 experienced any of the clutch issues I have described?
I kindly request that folks resist the urge to blame this on driver error and/or make comments that we are riding the clutch. We are not. We really do know how to properly drive a manual transmission.
Why have you been worrying me..."
- apologies to Phoebe Buffet
Took delivery of our 2011 MINI Cooper S All4 Countryman with manual transmission in early January 2011. Yes, one of the first cars delivered.
My wife and I are the sole drivers of the Countryman and together we put on a whopping 4000 miles in the first 13 months of ownership. Each of us has driven manual transmissions for well over 20 years and have each owned many cars with manual transmissions. Please just stipulate that we know how to properly drive a stick. Please?
Starting one week into ownership, we have found that with moderate to heavy use (rush hour traffic for instance) the clutch will emit a very strong and unpleasant burning smell. The smell is strong you notice it while in the car and if you are standing outside of it. Hence the name of our car ("Smelly Clutch") and the title of this thread.
While driving in stop and go traffic, or slowly following a line of cars up a steep garage ramp, or any other situation where the clutch is going to be stressed, you can count on good ole Smelly Clutch to rear her ugly nose, er head.
A couple of weeks ago we drove into the city to go out to dinner. It's about a 7 mile drive but it was in stop-and-go rush hour traffic. As soon as we pulled into the indoor parking garage, the attendant came over and said "Are your brakes burning up? Smelled it as soon as you pulled in." I explained that it is indeed my car that stinks but it is the clutch rather than the brakes.
We've been reporting these issues to our dealer fairly regularly so that it is well documented. They have been courteous but continue to state that there is nothing wrong with the car. And they won't pull the transmission to visually inspect the clutch, something that I really think ought to be done.
Why am I posting this now?
Well, today I brought our All4 to the dealer for a state inspection and to replace the auxiliary water pump per the recall. The Service Advisor told me they just replaced a clutch on an All4 with 1700 miles on it. The clutch had been completely fried and his car had to be towed in to the dealership. Like me, the driver also claimed to be well experienced in driving a manual transmission for many, many years. MINI is picking up the tab for that repair, I'm told.
I was also told that the vast majority of All4's are sold with automatic transmissions so the sample size for manuals is much smaller. Further, the SA noted that unlike other MINI's, the clutch in the Countryman does not really have a consistent sweet spot where the clutch engages or disengages and that it cannot be adjusted.
I think my clutch is going to fail at some point. Probably when my wife is driving it. Probably on a highway. In rush hour. And I'll be out of town on business. Get the picture?
So, has anyone on this forum with a manual All4 experienced any of the clutch issues I have described?
I kindly request that folks resist the urge to blame this on driver error and/or make comments that we are riding the clutch. We are not. We really do know how to properly drive a manual transmission.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
New Clutch
Hello everyone,
This is my first post here as I've been reading the forums as a guest for a long time
Proud owner of a MCS ALL4 '12, I had a terrible experience with the clutch a few days ago as I was trying to park on an uphill road (in reverse as well). I almost fried the clutch (smokes coming out from the engine bay). Waited for a few hours for the car to cool off and although it drove normal after that I decided to take it to the dealer to have a look.
The dealer said that I will probably need a new clutch. So as I was reading on the new updated 2013 clutch I saw on ghamma's post about the part number 21-20-8-606-067.
Can anyone confirm that this is the new part number for the updated clutch as I want to ask my dealer to order it and make sure I get the new one in?
Cheers from Athens, Greece
This is my first post here as I've been reading the forums as a guest for a long time
Proud owner of a MCS ALL4 '12, I had a terrible experience with the clutch a few days ago as I was trying to park on an uphill road (in reverse as well). I almost fried the clutch (smokes coming out from the engine bay). Waited for a few hours for the car to cool off and although it drove normal after that I decided to take it to the dealer to have a look.
The dealer said that I will probably need a new clutch. So as I was reading on the new updated 2013 clutch I saw on ghamma's post about the part number 21-20-8-606-067.
Can anyone confirm that this is the new part number for the updated clutch as I want to ask my dealer to order it and make sure I get the new one in?
Cheers from Athens, Greece
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
It made quite a difference in my manual ALL4...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,406
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Ohio
Hello everyone,
This is my first post here as I've been reading the forums as a guest for a long time
Proud owner of a MCS ALL4 '12, I had a terrible experience with the clutch a few days ago as I was trying to park on an uphill road (in reverse as well). I almost fried the clutch (smokes coming out from the engine bay). Waited for a few hours for the car to cool off and although it drove normal after that I decided to take it to the dealer to have a look.
The dealer said that I will probably need a new clutch. So as I was reading on the new updated 2013 clutch I saw on ghamma's post about the part number 21-20-8-606-067.
Can anyone confirm that this is the new part number for the updated clutch as I want to ask my dealer to order it and make sure I get the new one in?
Cheers from Athens, Greece
This is my first post here as I've been reading the forums as a guest for a long time
Proud owner of a MCS ALL4 '12, I had a terrible experience with the clutch a few days ago as I was trying to park on an uphill road (in reverse as well). I almost fried the clutch (smokes coming out from the engine bay). Waited for a few hours for the car to cool off and although it drove normal after that I decided to take it to the dealer to have a look.
The dealer said that I will probably need a new clutch. So as I was reading on the new updated 2013 clutch I saw on ghamma's post about the part number 21-20-8-606-067.
Can anyone confirm that this is the new part number for the updated clutch as I want to ask my dealer to order it and make sure I get the new one in?
Cheers from Athens, Greece
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
Just a warning - the dealer can't just pop an access cover off and inspect your clutch. The only way to inspect the clutch is to essentially disassemble the front end of the car. If the car is acting normally odds are the dealer is going to turn you away without doing much. That doesn't mean that the clutch isn't damaged and/or heat spotted, but without the clutch slipping or otherwise acting abnormally I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer didn't take action...
I reported problems with my manual on ALL4 to my dealer, they tried to reproduce it and couldn't, and nothing was changed. I emailed a report each time I had a problem experience with the clutch. The dealership service department was sympathetic but had no alternative to offer for a long time.
When I saw the new clutch part number on NAM, I passed that to my SA and the dealer (MINI of Stevens Creek) ordered it. I'd call that supportive.
After some back-and-forth between the dealer and the regional MINI rep, they decided to see if the new part made a difference in a documented situation and replacement was approved. The result was a dramatic improvement.
Dealer service organizations can choose how supportive to be to their customers. There seems to be quite a range of variation. There are five dealerships in the SF Bay Area - I happen to be near one of the supportive ones.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
My CM is at the dealer right now as a result of an oil leak. They fixed the oil leak and also spotted a coolant leak so they are taking care of both of those, but they said the clutch was not slipping so they are not going to do anything at this point. It's flatter than a pancake on that side of town so I'm not surprised they are not able to duplicate the problem. This service experience in the Bay Area has been much better than what I experienced at my selling dealer in Reno so no complaints.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
I'll take it back in over the summer when I can drive one of the BMWs in the mountains without risk of snow. The CM is my snow car and I can't have it in the shop during the winter. They can keep it as long as they want in the summer and maybe by then the 2013 parts will be readily available.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Just a warning - the dealer can't just pop an access cover off and inspect your clutch. The only way to inspect the clutch is to essentially disassemble the front end of the car. If the car is acting normally odds are the dealer is going to turn you away without doing much. That doesn't mean that the clutch isn't damaged and/or heat spotted, but without the clutch slipping or otherwise acting abnormally I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer didn't take action...
Even if they don't replace it under warranty and I have to pay the costs, at least I want to have the new 2013 clutch in to avoid any future hassles
And to add up another clutch experience from a friend of mine (owner of a MCS ALL4 '11), he changed 3 sets of clutches! Eventually he had to sell the car as he thought the problem will never be fixed.
Neutral
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
Took my CMA4 in for its second scheduled service at 24K. Among other things, I repeated the "smelly clutch" issue I had mentioned in the first service. The dealer did some initial inspection and gave me the obligatory "you don't know how to use a clutch" lecture.
After insisting that I do, and that a clutch shouldn't fail at 24K miles they went to Mini USA to get the okay for a tear down and inspect. I saw the parts after the tear down and was amazed at how little of the clutch was left. They agreed to the complimentary (one-time) replacement under warranty. I asked for the new part number which took a few extra days for the parts to arrive.
The service manager was great. He did emphasize that the new part may not solve the problem and that it's just an experiment. Apparently, I'm only the second at the dealer to get the new part.
So far the feel of the clutch is significantly better. It's a completely different car. While I'm still worried about the overall robustness of the drive train, at least things are better now.
After insisting that I do, and that a clutch shouldn't fail at 24K miles they went to Mini USA to get the okay for a tear down and inspect. I saw the parts after the tear down and was amazed at how little of the clutch was left. They agreed to the complimentary (one-time) replacement under warranty. I asked for the new part number which took a few extra days for the parts to arrive.
The service manager was great. He did emphasize that the new part may not solve the problem and that it's just an experiment. Apparently, I'm only the second at the dealer to get the new part.
So far the feel of the clutch is significantly better. It's a completely different car. While I'm still worried about the overall robustness of the drive train, at least things are better now.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
Congrats on convincing MINI to fix the car. I see you're in Nor Cal. Does that mean Bay Area? If so what dealership? I have mentioned the smelly clutch and inability to take off from steep inclines. Response has been "can't duplicate" but I am going to push harder at the next service this summer.
Got Betty Boop's rap sheet today all 4 pages:
Page 1 - performed all complimentary inspection (oil, filter, wiper blades, etc)
Page 2 - Removed air filter housing and found that oil is leaking from the timing chain due to defective timing chain crush ring -----Replaced timing chain tensioner
Performed coolant temp sensor recall, replaced bleeder screw on thermostat with remote sensor
Page 3 - Found out that oil is leaking from oil control valve solinoid and has
penetrated engine wiring harness. ----replaced engine wiring harness
Found clutch is worn and has glazed surface of flywheel clutch - test drove vehicle and found that clutch is slipping. Removed exhaust, PTO, and trasmission - replaced clutch and flywheel. (Installed new clutch pedal spring inconjunction with updated clutch.
Page 4 - additional concern - vibration noise coming from either right air vent or door speaker. Found out that vibration is being caused/amplified from all tires that are chopped/feathered, causing excessive vibration.
My note: these tires have about 13,000 miles on them - first set lasted about 12,500 miles.
Sounds like my poor Betty went through major surgery!
MsBrit
Page 1 - performed all complimentary inspection (oil, filter, wiper blades, etc)
Page 2 - Removed air filter housing and found that oil is leaking from the timing chain due to defective timing chain crush ring -----Replaced timing chain tensioner
Performed coolant temp sensor recall, replaced bleeder screw on thermostat with remote sensor
Page 3 - Found out that oil is leaking from oil control valve solinoid and has
penetrated engine wiring harness. ----replaced engine wiring harness
Found clutch is worn and has glazed surface of flywheel clutch - test drove vehicle and found that clutch is slipping. Removed exhaust, PTO, and trasmission - replaced clutch and flywheel. (Installed new clutch pedal spring inconjunction with updated clutch.
Page 4 - additional concern - vibration noise coming from either right air vent or door speaker. Found out that vibration is being caused/amplified from all tires that are chopped/feathered, causing excessive vibration.
My note: these tires have about 13,000 miles on them - first set lasted about 12,500 miles.
Sounds like my poor Betty went through major surgery!
MsBrit
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: Huntington LI, NY
MsBrit,
Regarding page 4- with just over 2,000 miles I took my CMS in because it was pulling to one side. The dealer kept the car for 2 days because they could not believe the factory alignment was so far off. The SA said the regional SA wanted to personally inspect my car before authorizing the service work because he was convinced I did some damage to the suspension while driving. After inspection his comment to the SA was "does he ever drive this car, it looks like it has never seen water?" Bottom line, 4 wheel alignment, apology and the car tracks much better. But I am convinced many CMS leave the factory with bad alignments hence the accelerated tire wear.
Regarding page 4- with just over 2,000 miles I took my CMS in because it was pulling to one side. The dealer kept the car for 2 days because they could not believe the factory alignment was so far off. The SA said the regional SA wanted to personally inspect my car before authorizing the service work because he was convinced I did some damage to the suspension while driving. After inspection his comment to the SA was "does he ever drive this car, it looks like it has never seen water?" Bottom line, 4 wheel alignment, apology and the car tracks much better. But I am convinced many CMS leave the factory with bad alignments hence the accelerated tire wear.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
From: CT
Mine is scheduled for it's 30,000 service, a few recalls, one being the replacement of the screen on the sun roof. Recently I've opened up my dialogue with my SA about just not being content with the clutch in general. It is better since the update a yr. or so ago, but it still has its issues. I rarely get the smelly thing.. But if I'm not mindful in certain situations, it's frustrating. I'd like to just enjoy my vehicle without always being concerned when stopping and going. Added the JCW exhaust a while back and a few other mods, nothing major and the car really sounds nice and runs great... No complaints other than the intermittent clutch issues, which are even more defined as my daughter continues to learn to drive a standard. It is definetly NOT a New Driver User Friendly clutch. I've brought it up to them before that if I were to hand this down to my daughter, I'd probably be looking at new 4th mini. I'm hesitant letting them know she's still learning a manual as they may apply any wears and tears to her. We have only 2 dealerships in Ct and I have no complaints with this one. They have been great and every complaint and issue has been justified, resolved or replaced. I just don't seem to have enough behind my complaint with the clutch, other than after driving a new 2013..there is such a difference! I'll bring it up next week again and mention the new part number 21-20-8-606-067. Never been much a car jock when it comes to fixing things....What would be involved in replacing the old clutch for a new one.... Dollar wise that is........
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
...I just don't seem to have enough behind my complaint with the clutch, other than after driving a new 2013..there is such a difference! I'll bring it up next week again and mention the new part number 21-20-8-606-067. Never been much a car jock when it comes to fixing things....What would be involved in replacing the old clutch for a new one.... Dollar wise that is........
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk, VA
I couldn't take all the BS with clutch...the 2011s are a piece of crap. Had mine for 22k miles before I traded it in for a 2013 hardtop. Mine never slipped but it was a ***** to drive. Virginia is pretty flat too. So I went auto on my hardtop and got 2800 bucks off the car..
I own a 2012 justa and the clutch(same clutch as my 2011) is wonderful. I almost bought a 2013S but I couldn't get pass the clutch problem even if it was the JCW.
I own a 2012 justa and the clutch(same clutch as my 2011) is wonderful. I almost bought a 2013S but I couldn't get pass the clutch problem even if it was the JCW.
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I figure I should put in our experience so far. We have had a 2012 manual All4 Countryman for just about a year. We are just about 12,000 miles. I have had bad clutch smell 4 times over the last year. Once backing out of our steep drive. I have now had to modify how I get out of our drive so the clutch does not slip. The other 3 times have been at the ski area parking lot trying to get in and out of the parking lot in deep snow. You can't really feather this clutch at all without it slipping excessively. I have an Audi with over 200,000 miles on one cloth, a VW tdi with 180,000 miles on one clutch and done tons of off roading in a VW Syncro with a manual trans and never slipped a clutch to the point of smelling. I go this Wednesday for our first service and have mentioned the clutch to them. They have already started insinuating not knowing how to drive a clutch.
Wish me luck. I would love to know some key things that you had to say in order to get them to replace the clutch with the updated one.
thanks
Craig
Wish me luck. I would love to know some key things that you had to say in order to get them to replace the clutch with the updated one.
thanks
Craig