R60 who opted for an extended warranty
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
- More moisture in the brake fluids mean lowered boiling point. Brake fluid gets hot due to the friction in the brake system and in extreme conditions it can boil. You start to notice it as brake fade and eventually brake failure. The typical driver will probably never encounter major brake fade or failure in a regular commute, but for people who track their car regularly yearly brake fluid changes are probably more the norm than every two years. It's cheaper to replace the fluid than hitting the wall.
- More moisture in the braking components means a potential for rust. Not changing brake fluid can lead to premature failure of the master cylinder and calipers.
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Long Island
I picked up my CM last week, and declined the extra warranty and service coverage plans. Usually by the time the factory warranty is up I have a pretty good idea on how reliable the car is going to be for me...and if I'm not fuzzy and warm about the car's reliability and build then I'll trade it in.
I was quoted "in writing" $1,595 for the tire insurance...which I couldn't justify (and hopefully my gut will prove right). Between OEM wheels for sale on ebay, and new rubber available through tire rack I can get four new tires with rims (plus a 12v air pump and a can of tire fix) for less than the tire insurance quote.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
I was quoted "in writing" $1,595 for the tire insurance...which I couldn't justify (and hopefully my gut will prove right). Between OEM wheels for sale on ebay, and new rubber available through tire rack I can get four new tires with rims (plus a 12v air pump and a can of tire fix) for less than the tire insurance quote.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
I only got a quote on the XXL since I have Connected + Nav. I passed on the package since I was already quite financially extended on the vehicle purchase. We'll see how things hold up and reconsider in the 4th year.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
My data also show that my 87 Civic SI (130k miles), 88 528e (110k), 89 528i (150k), 93 Accord (97k+), 00 328i (124k+), and 04 MCS JCW (93k+) repair costs after warranty termination have each been much less than $1.5k. The only exception was a 93 Ford Windstar which I dumped after 80k miles. Proper maintenance is the key with oil changes, brake fluid changes, and coolant flushes being cheap insurance for the long haul.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
The reason BMW and MINI recommend changing the brake fluid every two years is that brake fluids are hygroscopic. That means the fluid absorbs moisture and over time that will cause two problems:
- More moisture in the brake fluids mean lowered boiling point. Brake fluid gets hot due to the friction in the brake system and in extreme conditions it can boil. You start to notice it as brake fade and eventually brake failure. The typical driver will probably never encounter major brake fade or failure in a regular commute, but for people who track their car regularly yearly brake fluid changes are probably more the norm than every two years. It's cheaper to replace the fluid than hitting the wall.
- More moisture in the braking components means a potential for rust. Not changing brake fluid can lead to premature failure of the master cylinder and calipers.
- More moisture in the brake fluids mean lowered boiling point. Brake fluid gets hot due to the friction in the brake system and in extreme conditions it can boil. You start to notice it as brake fade and eventually brake failure. The typical driver will probably never encounter major brake fade or failure in a regular commute, but for people who track their car regularly yearly brake fluid changes are probably more the norm than every two years. It's cheaper to replace the fluid than hitting the wall.
- More moisture in the braking components means a potential for rust. Not changing brake fluid can lead to premature failure of the master cylinder and calipers.
It is a good practice to replace the fluid with new regardless of tracking or now (if you do, do it more frequently). The fluid does not last forever, it does absorb water, it does degrade in its quality but it has yet to prove to be a problem for you it past it sounds.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
YMMV --
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Not quite the proper analogy and incorrect, but I know what you are attempting to say. Either way, brake fluid should last and be servicable much longer than two years. I hope you realize the difference between the two.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
To me, it's not even a question of whether the fluid will last longer or whether I'll have to replace parts as the car ages. I understand that my brakes become less effective over time due to the water in the brake fluid. I want to insure the shortest possible stopping distance and that's why I don't mind changing brake fluid. In addition to the fluid, I will only buy high quality brake parts, tires and shocks as they are the three main components that make a difference in emergency situations.
I work with insurance companies, body shops, and tow yards so I see wrecked cars on a regular basis. Maybe it's a result of my professional activity and the number of "bio" stickers I've seen, but I am especially motivated to keep the shiny side up and not run into things / people / pets. In 30 years of driving I've managed to do just that and I'll do whatever it takes to increase the odds of keeping it that way.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: MA
BT,
I know the forums make it seem like there are a lot of problems with these cars, but I have said before I have not had that experience. I keep meticulous records on all cars. I enter every receipt for gas, fluids, repair work, maintenance work, upgrades, you name it. I am shocked at how much folks are being quoted for the various warranties and maintenance / tire programs.
Since my cost data is in an excel spreadsheet, I ran some numbers for the BMWs and MINIs I have purchased since 2002. Admitedly, this behavior is a little obsessive and may not interest anyone but me, however, ten years of real out of pocket cost data with the brand does not lie and it may influence people's warranty dollar decisions. What I get out of it is actual running costs per mile as well as total cost of ownership with depreciation once I sell a car.
The criteria I used were:
- Maintenance includes oil / fluid / filter / belt / plug / wiper changes, plus tires and brakes. My rough maintenance schedule is engine oil every 7,500 miles, trans / diff at 30k miles, brake fluid every 2 years, coolant every 4 years, everything else as recommended by BMW / MINI. I change motor oil myself and do brakes as well. I used to do more but nowadays I take the cars to a BMW independent for everything else because I don't want to risk my dogs ingesting coolant nor do I want to deal with properly recycling the old fluids.
- Repair includes stuff that broke or was not planned. I am including tire repair since contrary to popular belief, you can patch a runflat.
02 BMW 330ci - Bought new in Sept 2002, still own, currently has 49k miles
Maintenance total: $3,165.65 (includes yearly oil changes, other fluids, filters, 2 sets of tires, still has original brakes and battery!!!!)
Repair total: $1,003.54 (5th gear detent failed, required dropping the transmission and clutch was replaced at the time since they were already there. Also includes one stone chip repair on windshield and one tire repair.)
06 MINI Cooper S - bought new in Feb 2006, still own, currently has 77k miles
Maintenance total: $2,720.96 (includes fluids, filters, drive belt, 2 sets of tires, brakes at 4 corners, battery is still the original)
Repair total: $224.25 (1 tire repaired, one windshield replaced, and one check engine light diagnosis)
06 BMW 330i - Bought with 20k in 07, sold with 78k in July 2010
Maintenance total: $2,287.99 (includes fluids, filters, one set of tires and brakes at all four corners. Battery was still orginal)
Repair total: $82 (1 tire repair and one check engine light reset after I forgot to reconnect the MAF when I changed the air filter - doh!)
07 BMW 650i - Bought with 13k miles in 09, still own, currently has 29k miles
Maintenance total: $1,003.84 (includes fluids, filters, 1 set of tires and it is coming due for several fluids at 30k. Brakes and battery are original)
Repair total: $76 (1 tire repair and 1 rebalance of four wheels to resolve front end vibration)
12 MINI Countryman - on its way
Maintenance total: $89.80 (I pre ordered oil and filters for 1,500 break in and 7,500 mile oil changes
)
The moral of the story is that if I had bought the various warranties and maintenance programs on these four vehicles, I would be totally upside down. This is especially true since the maintenance programs do not provide anywhere close to the same level of care my cars receive and a good portion of my repair costs would not fall under the warranty anyway. Based on these numbers and the cost Theo was quoted for the XXL program to 70k miles, I would rather spend the money on proper maintenance than give away the cash up front for something I might not use.
I know the forums make it seem like there are a lot of problems with these cars, but I have said before I have not had that experience. I keep meticulous records on all cars. I enter every receipt for gas, fluids, repair work, maintenance work, upgrades, you name it. I am shocked at how much folks are being quoted for the various warranties and maintenance / tire programs.
Since my cost data is in an excel spreadsheet, I ran some numbers for the BMWs and MINIs I have purchased since 2002. Admitedly, this behavior is a little obsessive and may not interest anyone but me, however, ten years of real out of pocket cost data with the brand does not lie and it may influence people's warranty dollar decisions. What I get out of it is actual running costs per mile as well as total cost of ownership with depreciation once I sell a car.
The criteria I used were:
- Maintenance includes oil / fluid / filter / belt / plug / wiper changes, plus tires and brakes. My rough maintenance schedule is engine oil every 7,500 miles, trans / diff at 30k miles, brake fluid every 2 years, coolant every 4 years, everything else as recommended by BMW / MINI. I change motor oil myself and do brakes as well. I used to do more but nowadays I take the cars to a BMW independent for everything else because I don't want to risk my dogs ingesting coolant nor do I want to deal with properly recycling the old fluids.
- Repair includes stuff that broke or was not planned. I am including tire repair since contrary to popular belief, you can patch a runflat.
02 BMW 330ci - Bought new in Sept 2002, still own, currently has 49k miles
Maintenance total: $3,165.65 (includes yearly oil changes, other fluids, filters, 2 sets of tires, still has original brakes and battery!!!!)
Repair total: $1,003.54 (5th gear detent failed, required dropping the transmission and clutch was replaced at the time since they were already there. Also includes one stone chip repair on windshield and one tire repair.)
06 MINI Cooper S - bought new in Feb 2006, still own, currently has 77k miles
Maintenance total: $2,720.96 (includes fluids, filters, drive belt, 2 sets of tires, brakes at 4 corners, battery is still the original)
Repair total: $224.25 (1 tire repaired, one windshield replaced, and one check engine light diagnosis)
06 BMW 330i - Bought with 20k in 07, sold with 78k in July 2010
Maintenance total: $2,287.99 (includes fluids, filters, one set of tires and brakes at all four corners. Battery was still orginal)
Repair total: $82 (1 tire repair and one check engine light reset after I forgot to reconnect the MAF when I changed the air filter - doh!)
07 BMW 650i - Bought with 13k miles in 09, still own, currently has 29k miles
Maintenance total: $1,003.84 (includes fluids, filters, 1 set of tires and it is coming due for several fluids at 30k. Brakes and battery are original)
Repair total: $76 (1 tire repair and 1 rebalance of four wheels to resolve front end vibration)
12 MINI Countryman - on its way
Maintenance total: $89.80 (I pre ordered oil and filters for 1,500 break in and 7,500 mile oil changes
)The moral of the story is that if I had bought the various warranties and maintenance programs on these four vehicles, I would be totally upside down. This is especially true since the maintenance programs do not provide anywhere close to the same level of care my cars receive and a good portion of my repair costs would not fall under the warranty anyway. Based on these numbers and the cost Theo was quoted for the XXL program to 70k miles, I would rather spend the money on proper maintenance than give away the cash up front for something I might not use.
based on thread posts it seems that the extended mechanical warranty at the prices quoted is not worth it. however, it seems based on your numbers, the extended maintenance warranty around $1,800 (even if you add couple of extra oil changes) may be worth it. what maintenance do you perform that mini wont do? i'm not a mechanic nor play one of tv
so i wouldnt be changing any fluids or belts or brakes. (one factor is that i will only be putting on no more than 8,500 miles per year - i actually increased a couple thousand given the probability i will be motoring more with this vehicle.)thanks,
todd
Last edited by bostonterrier; Dec 27, 2011 at 10:27 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
hi fredoin,
based on thread posts it seems that the extended mechanical warranty at the prices quoted is not worth it. however, it seems based on your numbers, the extended maintenance warranty around $1,800 (even if you add couple of extra oil changes) may be worth it. what maintenance do you perform that mini wont do? i'm not a mechanic nor play one of tv so i wouldnt be changing any fluids or belts or brakes. (one factor is that i will only be putting on no more than 8,500 miles per year - i actually increased a couple thousand given the probability i will be motoring more with this vehicle.)
thanks,
todd
based on thread posts it seems that the extended mechanical warranty at the prices quoted is not worth it. however, it seems based on your numbers, the extended maintenance warranty around $1,800 (even if you add couple of extra oil changes) may be worth it. what maintenance do you perform that mini wont do? i'm not a mechanic nor play one of tv
so i wouldnt be changing any fluids or belts or brakes. (one factor is that i will only be putting on no more than 8,500 miles per year - i actually increased a couple thousand given the probability i will be motoring more with this vehicle.)thanks,
todd
06 MINI Cooper S - bought new in Feb 2006, still own, currently has 77k miles
Total: $2,720.96 (includes all my out of pocket since day 1 for what I consider to be maintenance or wear item such as fluids, filters, drive belt, 2 sets of tires, brakes at 4 corners, battery is still the original)
Here is how it breaks down:
Tires: $1014.13 - 2 sets of tires (I get a small discount because my brother works for a tire company)
Brakes: $627.61 - That's for the front and rear pads, rotors, and sensors. I did the intall so labor is not part of this.
Everything else: $1,079.22 That is for European synthetic oil and filter every 7,500 miles (I got two free ones from MINI as part of the maintence plan), two brake fluid changes, two trans fluid changes, one coolant changes, 1 drive belt, wipers, 2 DINAN air filters. I have done the engine oil changes and wiper / filter installs myself but the other fluids and the belt were done at a BMW independent shop.
So if the maintenance plan includes brakes then it may be an OK deal for you if you factor in labor. That being said you will not get:
- 7,500 oil change interval. My car is on its 10th oil fill whereas the MINI plan would have just done the 5th.
- Trans fluid changes
- Coolant change
One more thing to consider is that the plan kicks in when the 3/36 plan expires. A lot can happen to a car in 3 years whether it's your fault, someone else's fault, or Mother Nature. The insurance company will not reimburse you for the pre-paid maintenance as part of a total loss settlement. You may also get tired of it and you won't get the full value back on trade or sale.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: MA
Let me give you a rough breakdown of what I included for the 06 MINI which is probably closest to your scenario. That might help you determine if the maintenance program is worth it to you:
06 MINI Cooper S - bought new in Feb 2006, still own, currently has 77k miles
Total: $2,720.96 (includes all my out of pocket since day 1 for what I consider to be maintenance or wear item such as fluids, filters, drive belt, 2 sets of tires, brakes at 4 corners, battery is still the original)
Here is how it breaks down:
Tires: $1014.13 - 2 sets of tires (I get a small discount because my brother works for a tire company)
Brakes: $627.61 - That's for the front and rear pads, rotors, and sensors. I did the intall so labor is not part of this.
Everything else: $1,079.22 That is for European synthetic oil and filter every 7,500 miles (I got two free ones from MINI as part of the maintence plan), two brake fluid changes, two trans fluid changes, one coolant changes, 1 drive belt, wipers, 2 DINAN air filters. I have done the engine oil changes and wiper / filter installs myself but the other fluids and the belt were done at a BMW independent shop.
So if the maintenance plan includes brakes then it may be an OK deal for you if you factor in labor. That being said you will not get:
- 7,500 oil change interval. My car is on its 10th oil fill whereas the MINI plan would have just done the 5th.
- Trans fluid changes
- Coolant change
One more thing to consider is that the plan kicks in when the 3/36 plan expires. A lot can happen to a car in 3 years whether it's your fault, someone else's fault, or Mother Nature. The insurance company will not reimburse you for the pre-paid maintenance as part of a total loss settlement. You may also get tired of it and you won't get the full value back on trade or sale.
06 MINI Cooper S - bought new in Feb 2006, still own, currently has 77k miles
Total: $2,720.96 (includes all my out of pocket since day 1 for what I consider to be maintenance or wear item such as fluids, filters, drive belt, 2 sets of tires, brakes at 4 corners, battery is still the original)
Here is how it breaks down:
Tires: $1014.13 - 2 sets of tires (I get a small discount because my brother works for a tire company)
Brakes: $627.61 - That's for the front and rear pads, rotors, and sensors. I did the intall so labor is not part of this.
Everything else: $1,079.22 That is for European synthetic oil and filter every 7,500 miles (I got two free ones from MINI as part of the maintence plan), two brake fluid changes, two trans fluid changes, one coolant changes, 1 drive belt, wipers, 2 DINAN air filters. I have done the engine oil changes and wiper / filter installs myself but the other fluids and the belt were done at a BMW independent shop.
So if the maintenance plan includes brakes then it may be an OK deal for you if you factor in labor. That being said you will not get:
- 7,500 oil change interval. My car is on its 10th oil fill whereas the MINI plan would have just done the 5th.
- Trans fluid changes
- Coolant change
One more thing to consider is that the plan kicks in when the 3/36 plan expires. A lot can happen to a car in 3 years whether it's your fault, someone else's fault, or Mother Nature. The insurance company will not reimburse you for the pre-paid maintenance as part of a total loss settlement. You may also get tired of it and you won't get the full value back on trade or sale.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
Just want to clarify the discussion. MINI offers externded maintenance coverage after the 3/36 and they offer extended warranty coverage after the first 4/50. I assume we are discussing the extended warranty and NOT the extended maintenance, right?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 8
From: France and Reno/Tahoe
based on thread posts it seems that the extended mechanical warranty at the prices quoted is not worth it. however, it seems based on your numbers, the extended maintenance warranty around $1,800 (even if you add couple of extra oil changes) may be worth it. what maintenance do you perform that mini wont do? i'm not a mechanic nor play one of tv so i wouldnt be changing any fluids or belts or brakes. (one factor is that i will only be putting on no more than 8,500 miles per year - i actually increased a couple thousand given the probability i will be motoring more with this vehicle.)
thanks,
todd
so i wouldnt be changing any fluids or belts or brakes. (one factor is that i will only be putting on no more than 8,500 miles per year - i actually increased a couple thousand given the probability i will be motoring more with this vehicle.)thanks,
todd
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
Ah, yes -- I see that now. Sorry.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: MA
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: Bloomington, IN
sorry guys for not being more clear. while i wasn't specific in the original post, i am interested in hearing about both programs...whether they are worth it and at what price (for the mechanically challenged...like myself.) it seems that the 3/36 maintenance is around $1,800 but may leave out some important maintenance items and the 4/50 extended warranty is anywhere from $2,700-$3,500, pricey. also it seems that negotiating a program price upfront may be better than waiting. from some of the posters it seemed that between the two programs, that the maintenance programs may be more "worth it." so i am still interested in reading relevant posts as i am still waiting for my mini to arrive. thanks everyone.
I'm a full member with USAA (former military), so I'm not sure if their extended protection program is offered to folks eligible for a limited membership, or not.
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