Do 02's and 03's deserve the bad rep they seem to thave? If so, why?

 

Bad rep? What are you referring to, exactly? I have a 2003 and she is fantastic. Been reliable and the best car I've ever owned. Why are you so scared, sweetie? You keep starting these odd threads.

I also had a 2002, and loved her, but had to get the black MCS when that color was introduced. Also, my first MINI was a Cooper, and I regretted that I hadn't gotten the MCS.

I have been in the MINI community since 2002, have a lot of friends that all got the earliest '02 MINIs, and they love them. Many are now getting their second and third MINIs, oftentimes keeping their 02s. I think that speaks well for them.

 

Yup, my co-worker has an early '02 that she just won't part with. I keep telling her how much better the '06 cars are, but it doesn't matter what I say.

 

Why are the 06 cars much better?

 

They aren't.

 

They have had more years to add extra goodies and further refine them, I guess would be one answer. You can get LSD from the factory rather than going after-market, thus fully warranteed.

I would never get rid of my 03, but I would definitely get an additional MINI!

 

But they are definitely not "much" better. It could be argued that they are marginally better.

 

No, they're much better.

 

Case closed, then.

 

I'm using just as much logic and persuasiveness as you are.

 

LOL! Stop it, boys! I think that one of the reasons the MINI's resale value is so good is because it is an excellent value and a very desirable car. Why? Because it's GOOD!

 

I have a 02 with 55,000 HARD miles. I have NO complaints .

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

How diplomatic, MINIclo. Should we call you Condi?

 

The transmission alone (both MC and MCS) makes the newer cars much better than the early ones. The MCS gets lower gears that make the car quicker and peppier, and the MC gets a transmission that won't self-destruct without warning.

That's not to say that '02s and '03s aren't phenomenal cars, especially if you're lucky enough to get a problem-free one. But to deny that the '05s and '06s are much better seems disingenuous.

 

No, but you may call me "Clovie!" My family sometimes does....

 

I didn't say they were much better, I said "how much better". I was making a point about their owners (based on a sample-size of 1), not the cars.

 

Hey, Mr. Chris! My Wanda is a GENIUS! Tee hee! And after getting the 15% pulley mod and Unichip last year, I was informed that she was one of the fastest stock 03s that Detroit Tuned had ever driven!

So proud!

 

On average they're better. I forgot to include those words... on average.

Obviously Wanda is an overachieving prodigy. But there are plenty of folks who weren't so lucky with the early builds. Every time I see someone post on NAM about considering a '02-'03 MC with the old Midlands transmission, I do my best to talk them out of it. Those things are a freaking time bomb, even if the general public isn't educated enough for that to be reflected in the prevailing market prices.

 

Thanks for acknowledging her amazing brilliance! Bwahahahahahhahaa! Just SUCH a proud owner....

I am glad that MINI went from the Midlands transmission to the Getrag for the Coopers. I sure love the 6-speed Getrag in my MCS!

 

same here....... i have a rattle in the sun roof that the dealer can't seem to solve but I would not buy a new 06 over my modded 02. And,..... I would not mod an 06 ...... probably JCW or GP...... (going to take a close look at the Traveler..... just to get rid of the hassle factor..... OT remark..... if modding is your game, buy used IMO.... I would like the 06 second gear but I think 1st is usless with my engine....

 

Why to avoid an 02-03 car, unless you can get a killer deal:

Transmission: The early coopers do have "time bomb" transmissions, especially if you live where it gets cold. The revised gearing on the newer S is better than the early S. I'm on transmission #3.

Seats: remember those old seat levers? Airbag wiring harnesses? I;ve had the wiring re-done and both seats have had their seat rails replaced when they randomly got stock in the sliders. The new seat mechanisms are better.

Fewer rattles.

Better suspension adjustment capabilities.

I'm sure there's more.

I love my 03 (from the first week of the 03's, built in Sept 02). But I wouldn't recommend someone buy one over an 05-06.

 

I have a July 02 build and aside from the normal rattles of a 4yo car, I think my 02 has been more trouble free than alot of the later model MCS's out there.

 

Well I'll be the one to go against everyone else because I do not have my MCS anymore. I had a late 03 build (May) and had more problems than I would like to get into. It would have amounted to $3-5k to fix if the car was not under warranty, everyone has convinced me that I just had a lemon. Some of the problems included the dreaded stumble/yoyo/bog syndrome which was finally taken care of after a few software updates, cracked windshield, HK amp went bad (6 weeks without a radio to get a new part), squeaks and rattles (most of which taken care of by 7500 miles when I traded it in), the night before I traded it in there was also a pool of oil underneath it.

I would say "don't buy a new 02-03", buy one with average miles over low miles because chances are with more miles the problems would have been taken care of. As I think back, mine probably would have been fine or very good from the time I traded it in going forward, I was just so fed up with it that I bought a 7 year old M3, for less money. The car was problem free besides maintenance for the last two years. Now I am looking for an 05-06 MCS.

 

If you are buying an MC, Chris is right in that the big change from the constructed from paper and toothpicks Midland tranny to the Getrag is the big factor.

With the MCS, 05 and 06 owners still have fairly rattly cars. The ECU program, if anything, has gotten worse and the known BPV issues persist. Many of the niggling problems have gone unchanged. Oh and by the way, the 05 and 06 windshields still crack.........

I had thought the wiring harness issues had been resolved on the later models, but the Tech at my dealer said the 05s have proven just as troublesome. He has also noted that there were a spate of 04s and early 05s with throwout bearing issues.........

The revised gearing is nice for everyday driving, but I prefer the old gearing for the track.......

There are a few owners here who have had trouble free Minis, and there are a few who've had lemons. In between, the majority of owners have noted that the cars tend to be more on the glitchy side.

Except for the usual rattles, small annoying glitches, etc, my MCS has had only one area of real concern (so far). My good friend has an 05 that has been nothing but trouble - go figure.

 

Fact of Life # 4321 - MINIs rattle.

That said, for the MCS there are many things that I prefer in the '02 and '03 model years:

The MFSW with TWO spokes and the back side controls for the radio/cd player are the best.

Version 31 of the MCS ECU is still the best, IMO no yo-yo, no stumble.

Build quality in the early months was top notch. MINI wasn't working three shifts 24/7 to keep up with demand, as the model was just too new for there to be that much demand.

I have an unusual "built on the cusp" '03 (September '02 production). It's really an '02 sans the trunk mounted 12 volt aux. plug, but with Xenons, Cold Weather kit, Indi-Blue exterior (these all being options not available on the '02 model year MCS).

As to the lowered gearing of the '05 and '06 models, while nice, it's not a deal breaker if a good earlier MCS is available.