Hello everyone at North American Motoring... My name is Ryan, and I'm a newbie! I am about to order a new MCS from Knauz Mini in Lake Bluff Illinois and i have a question for all you experts.

Should I buy the DSC option?

First, I will say that i am a performance minded driver (arent we all though), I am going for the Limited Slip Differential option, and although this car will be a daily driver (my other car is a nearly race prepared 1976 BMW 2002), I will be romping on it regurally. I like to go fast and corner hard, and i have a lot of experience doing so, both on the street and on the track.

SO, is the DSC some sort of auto-compensating handling system that someone who understands weight distrubution and race handling will not need? I also live in Chicago and would not mind having a traction control option (of the kind that can be turned on and off) on my car, and i believe the only way to get this is through the DSC option.


PLEASE, anyone who has DSC or knows more about it than i do, drop some science on me!


and HELLO EVERYONE!!!!


Ryan

 

Hello, I am a newbie as well and will be getting my new MCS at the end of this month. I am not going to drop some science on you since I don't know too much about this either and had a similar dilemma. I ended up not ordering it and the following are my rationale (I'm sure many will disagree since these are far from scientific but I will give them up anyway):

1. I'm in my 40's and have driven manual transmission cars all my life, in the Philippines with less than adequate traction, surfaces etc.. I am confident of my ability to control the car - more so with manual transmission versus A/T. I've never been in an accident and I believe that the recent development of ABS has adequately enhanced safety.
2. For added security I think the added safety of ASC, which is standard for the S, is icing on the cake. Also, by what I have read, it seems that the features of the ASC and DSC are quite redundant. It sometimes scares me to read that some people claim to have been "saved" by the DSC - gosh! I wonder what their driving records were like without it.
3. This is somewhat embarrassing to admit, but one of my favorite Auto shows is 5th Gear and from what I have noticed, spirited driving by the host is always characterized by him "switching off" the Traction Control of performance cars he tests. The rationale seems to be that he does not want the car to take over the controls - in fact, some threads here talk about how DSC ends up overcompensating for any correction that an experienced driver may have done, thus putting him in a somewhat dangerous predicament. I figured that I would not want to get an option that I would most likely switch off anyway - just another electronic device that could go wrong (also,the less I rely on them, the more secure I feel,oddly enough). I realize I may need to do that (switch on and off) with the ASC but at least it's one less thing to worry about. I intend to keep the ASC on for regular driving.

The biggest reason I chose the Mini was because of the wonderful feeling I got when test driving it. I recently sold a sport bike and one thing I missed was the feeling of "being one" with the vehicle - the Mini gave me that feeling. The DSC just felt like an anti-thesis of this. Those are my 2 cents.

 

I say get it. I'm a performance minded driver as well, yet I can appreciate that not all driving conditions are ideal and that not every moment on public roads are appropriate 'performance' moments. DSC can be deactivated when you don't want it, but otherwise it just might save yours, or other people's, bacon.

Here's how it works (just found this article for another thread actually) :

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/dsc.htm

The article also reviews the differences between ASC and DSC. Having driven BMWs with both I actually prefer the DSC, the ASC was much more abrupt when activated and it cut off the gas/slowed the engine.

 

Yes....get it...

Donna

 

Just wondering, isn't the ASC part of the DSC such that you can't really separate both as what you implied? At least that's what I understood from the owner's manual for '05.

 

Well if you are just a normal, daily driver,
i dont see any need of DSC when ASC comes standard (i believe)

Nobody had features like ASC and DSC back in early 90s, 80s or even farther back.. and they still drove safely and fine.

 

Why spend the extra money for a similar item. Upgrade the lighting or stereo. A lot of folks spend their money upgrading wheels and suspension from the factory just to dump them a few months later when the car does not do what they thought it would.

 

From the above link:
DSC is, in fact, a further development of the ABS and ASC+T slip control systems.

• While ASC + T analyzes the longitudinal forces occurring in straight-ahead operation, DSC additionally registers and analyses lateral dynamic forces.
• When cornering at high speeds, DSC counters unstable vehicle states such as oversteering (rear of car brakes into a slide towards the outside of the curve) or understeering (front of car pushes towards the outside of the curve).
• The DSC feature can provide maximum stability when cornering.
• With DSC there is a significant reduction in the risk of skidding.

DSC is, quite literally, insurance. You hope you never need it, but if you do, it's there. On my cross country trip home I ran into torrential rain in Kansas. Several times the DSC light flashed on as I went through large puddles on the freeway. Did it 'save my bacon'? I don't know. Perhaps I'd have just continued on my merry way. Perhaps not.
If you never have an accident, it was money well saved. If you do, you'd have to wonder, "Would DSC have prevented it?"
If you look at the 'Mini Totaled into Mountain' thread, you'll see a perfect example where DSC may have helped. But it was turned off so he/we will never know.

As for the host of Top Gear turning it off - I'd wager that he would not do the same if heading of on a wet, winding road on the way home one evening.

 

I found DSC pretty sweet when driving in snow. It prevented me from understeering straight through a corner and into the curb or worse. When it kicked in, and helped the car rotate, (provided I was going a speed that had a hope in hell of making the corner) I wasn't paniced into coming off the gas and hitting the brake and guaranteeing a classic front wheel drive snow plow. You can turn it off when you want, so I say get it.

 

Hate to say no to a apparent safety feature, but dsc can intervene in a negative way, cutting back power when you least want less power, can cause bogging, and one must remember to shut off asc/dsc if acceleration is needed in low traction..... Its not like ABS or airbags, which I believe are a must in any modern car

Snow or very heavy slick rain conditions are where dsc is best... so I'd say put the $550 toward a set of steel wheels with snow tires for the mini... or put $ toward track time for your 2002....

 

They are different and behave differently. ASC may be part of, and an older precursor to, DSC but it does not act the same way or feel the same. DSC is more advanced, newer technology and I prefer how it behaves when activated. And I can turn it off when the circumstances are good for that, so it's the best of both worlds IMHO.

 

[QUOTE=lsd05jcw] but dsc can intervene in a negative way, cutting back power when you least want less power, can cause bogging, and one must remember to shut off asc/dsc if acceleration is needed in low traction..... /QUOTE]

Admitedly it has been a while since I have driven a MINI, however I believe the ASC/DSC was updated in later ECU flash's to be less of a buzz kill unless the wheel spin was excessive, ie: it never prevented me from pulling out quickly or getting a nice second gear squak after v32 or so.

Good snow tires and track time can never be considered bad advice.

 

Get it.

 

And use it when conditions warrant. Maybe you can avoid days like this:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=48936

 

Get it. Really get it. Do not skip it. Get it. Do it. Just do it.


YOU CAN ALWAYS SWITCH IT OFF...

 

Does the switch have to be thrown every time you start the car up? or is it always on till i put it back on? I have seen some mentions of a mod that allows it to stay off....



Ryan

 

Get the LSD. I got my MCS in May and it has helped already. I have been caught in some sever pop up thunderstorms here in Texas already. I believe it made a big difference in driving. On one occasion when I hit some water running across the freeway, the car went straight through it. No pull to the left of right. I can't say that I would have had the same reaction without it.

 

It is turned back on everytime time you restart the the car by default. I believe there is a auto window up mod that does what you are talking about. The young man who hit the mountain mentioned this in that thread.

WARNING, VERY UNSCIENTIFIC OPINION WITH NO REAL EVIDENCE OR PROOF:

The MINI is realy short and amatuers like myself will have very little chance of saving it when all goes wrong, without proper training. This opinion was expressed by my salesman and everytime I see a thread like that one, or this question comes up again, I remember what he said.

 

Default on - you can get 'Track Mode DSC' with Ian Cull's auto-up module which will allow you to default it off. <insert safety disclaimer here>
Seriously though, go do a test drive with it on and see if you find it intrusive. Especially in conjunction with the LSD. I'm betting it's not.

 

It is intrusive and can get in the way of some really fun driving. That is why I installed the Ian's board that lets you keep it off all the time. But, if there is rain coming, I turn it on every time. It is the ideal mod, you get the best of both worlds. Yes, get it and then get Ian's mod.

Bomboasy

 

Thanks for all the input for this NOOB! I've decided to go for the DSC option and get the Ian mod.... sounds like the best option!

THANKS AGAIN!!!!


Ryan